Why would he be ok with a baby but not an engagement?

[Underthesun99]

Just that really. My bf and I have talked for a couple of years about getting engaged. I am frustrated and hurt because he has had lots of opportunities to propose but there always seems an excuse. He says it’s too expensive or not the right time. My bf kept saying once we get engaged we can try for a baby. But he won’t propose! However, we are now trying to conceive with no ring, no engagement or marriage.

My question is, I just don’t understand why my bf would be ok with us trying for a baby but not want to get engaged to me? Or at least be honest that he doesn’t find marriage important.

@Underthesun99

A baby is easy to walk away from - he can literally leave, and disappear. A marriage certificate makes walking away Scot free a lot more difficult.

You may find he walks when you get pregnant, or straight after the birth, or in the first year. He does not see a baby as the same level of commitment as a marriage.

Ttc without a stable relationship is irresponsible, and you may bring yet another baby into the world for others to help you support. Your finances will be significantly hit by a baby and will make a wedding even more difficult to plan.

Ask yourself the true reason YOU want a baby - is it because you think this will be the lever to force him into marriage?

Your post screams STOP TTC NOW. Neither of you are ready to be parents at this point and it is just so unfair to actively work towards having a baby when things are as they stand.

You keep asking why - and everyone keeps telling you why - heed the advice you’ve asked for

If he wanted to marry you he would. If marriage is important to you, why are you willing to put up with this?

Posters aren't angry so don't switch off to the messages.

Let's take a scenario in 5 years, you have 1 or 2 children, unmarried, contributing to his mortgage and paying the childcare bill (which is likely to be at least £1000 per month per child). You use your savings to support maternity leave.

You are shattered from working and raising 2 children, he decides you are not as cute/fun/attractive/slim anymore so asks you to leave the house. You have to comply given it is his house.

You leave and will only be entitled to a small percentage of his income. Put calculations into CMS calculator online.

Could you manage childcare and living costs on your salary plus his small CMS calculation?

Before TTC do your research, work out the costs as if unmarried most of the costs will fall to you.

This is the reality..it happens way too often. You have additional red flags as you know he came from dysfunctional family so his relationship/conflict resolution skills will be at the level he was nurtured to.

Other posters who are unmarried may not have this additional risk so don't be falsely reassured by this.

He will get also get contact with your child and if he decides to make it up with his family they will spend time together. You will not have a say.

All of this happens every day to women and you should only proceed if you know 100% you can afford to raise a child financially on your own. This is fact and why single mums are amongst the poorest in society.

No one plans on being a single mum, we all trusted the men, until they became completely untrustworthy. Thankfully I was married but it has still caused enormous financial consequences which I will never recover from. A child impacts women much more than men. He will have 2 weeks off work and carry on as normal.

You would be a fool to have a baby with someone who acts as though he's waiting in case someone better comes along!

If you stay with him be prepared for him to bail at the first sign of trouble, and believe me a baby causes massive upheaval and problems

I don't think anyone is particularly "angry" with you.

I think a few people are probably concerned for you because you're willingly putting yourself in a very vulnerable position.

You're living in his house paying his mortgage. You have no housing security. He could kick you out on a whim.

There are 3 options to give you housing security:

1. Get married (that's married, not engaged)
2. Put your name on the house deeds and mortgage
3. Move out and buy or rent your own place

Regardless of the marriage issue, you should not be TTC when you are so vulnerable to homelessness. Marriage is the easy fix but there are other options.

Where were you living before you moved in with him? Did you own your own place or were you renting?

OP - I think some of the advice on here is a LITTLE harsh on your BF.

Me and my OH are also trying for a baby. We own a house, a dog but are not engaged/married. Don't get me wrong, I would like to get married (or at least engaged - not too fussed about marriage) but it's really really not the be all and end all for me. My OH has openly said he really isn't bothered about marriage and if we DO ever get married, it will be something cheap abroad. However should we have a baby and a few years down the line still aren't at least engaged, I wouldn't be happy.

You BF needs to be honest with you, and if he says he DOES want to get married, stop pushing him and stop predicting when it might happen. If he really isn't interested in getting married he needs to tell you this. If marriage is a priority to you, stop TTC until you have had this conversation and figured this out. There are loads of reasons why he might not want to get married, not always because he doesn't want the commitment. My OH simply doesn't want to spend the money and says it wont change a thing - and he is totally right! It won't change our life at all.

I know LOADS of unmarried couples with babies. Buying a house as just as much of a financial commitment as being married (almost). Having a baby is an even bigger commitment. Marriage is a different kind of priority to all people - talk to him about what it means to him.

Why would you do this? Walk away and concentrate on finding somebody who does want you. Of course he wants to try for a baby. He gets lots of unprotected sex! He’s loving it. Not prepared to commit though? Nah. That’s just not good enough. Know your worth. No marriage, no sex. If he wants you then he’ll wait until the ring is on your finger. Tell him you are booking the registry office for next month.

Don't ttc!

He knows that he can walk away and leave you literally holding the baby, and child support may never be able to get him to contribute a thing. If you get married, then if you split up, the settlement will cost him. The fact he's thinking this already is a bad sign. Do not try to have a baby with this man, or unfortunately you'll probably end up on MN in a few years with no home, no money, and a couple of kids to support all on your own.

It’s one of those, isn’t it?

OP: AIBU?

Most of MN: YES!

OP: stop being horrible! Now answer me, AIBU....

And so in until thread pulled

OP sorry I just saw you live in his house - another conversation needs to be had here. If he doesn't want to marry you BUT he wants a baby with you, he needs to put you on that mortgage. Having a baby and co-owning the house come hand in hand in my opinion. He can't have one and not the other - having a baby makes you a family and he needs to ensure you are secure in your family home as a unit. Not in HIS home.

I know LOADS of unmarried couples with babies. Buying a house as just as much of a financial commitment as being married (almost). Having a baby is an even bigger commitment. Marriage is a different kind of priority to all people - talk to him about what it means to him

you're missing the point here!

buying a house together is a financial commitment TO THE BANK.

Having a child is a financial commitment TO THE CHILD

getting married is a financial commitment TO EACH OTHER

OP will end up homeless with a child, if he so feels like kicking her out and she will not have a leg to stand on.

If they are married, he cannot do this. If she is on the mortgage, he cannot do this.

As things stand, he can, and op and possibly a child will be left high and dry.

It is FINE not to be married, if that isn't what you want. BUT the most important thing if you are not married is to make sure that all financial assets are SHARED. That you have an entitlement to half of everything. OP doesn't.

Stop ttc.

Read up on legalities of marriage and divorce.

If you do (unwisely) have DC before marriage, continue to work full time after mat leave and don’t make any work compromises your partner isn’t making.

What do you mean you took matters into your own hands?

Also you aren’t running out of time at 32.

@Bollykecks yes I apologise I didn't read the whole tread without posting...

Totally agree, if marriage isn't going to happen AT LEAST she needs to get herself on that mortgage!

However, a secure sensible couple will always financially support each other, regardless of marriage. My OH and myself do just that and we aren't married. Totally depends on the type of relationship you have.

However, a secure sensible couple will always financially support each other, regardless of marriage. My OH and myself do just that and we aren't married. Totally depends on the type of relationship you have

I wouldn't assume anyone will behave amicably post split either to be honest. I mean, I would like to assume DP wouldn't try to fuck me over, but who knows.

I have seen this with DP though, he had been split from his ex for 2 years, still paying the mortgage for the house he no longer lived in, plus maintenance, and she was amicable, nice woman, good mother etc.

Then he met me, and lets remind ourselves it was over 2 years from their split. She absolutely went off on one, refused to sell the house, refused to buy him out, wouldn't pay the mortgage or even contribute to it but continued to live there. It took him years to sort it out and after about 5 years of having been split up, he walked away from that house with £3.5k which was less than 10% of the equity in the house. He gets another £3.5k when his son turns 18. He will then have to take the ex to small claims as she has no intention whatsoever of paying it.

She was a nice woman, a good partner when they were together apparently, his parents adored her, he never ever ever thought she would fuck him over, but here we are.

Wow. There's none so blind as those who won't see. You're walking straight into being a single mum, homeless and jobless on UC. This guy will never marry you. He can street you at any time. You'd have to be an utter fool to have a child with him if it's marriage and partnership you want. The only thing dumber would be to have a kid and then stop work or go part time to look after the kids.

You're living in his house paying his mortgage. You have no housing security. He could kick you out on a whim.

OP, please heed the above advice.

I also lived in my (now ex) boyfriend's house. He kept stalling on marriage, dangling a carrot but never taking any action. Because he said the right things, I chose to believe that it would happen one day, but I had that niggling feeling deep down that he was making excuses. After 7 years he dumped me out of the blue, and of course I was the one with no house and no security.

Looking back, I know he never had any intention of committing, but it's hard to face that when you're in the situation. It really is better to face it now though, painful as it is, than to let him pull the rug out from under you further down the line. Getting back on my feet, and trusting another man again, was so bloody hard, but I'm now with someone who doesn't need to be convinced to commit to me. And I'm much much happier. I thank my lucky stars that I never had a child with my ex. I just wish I realised sooner that I deserved so much more than the scraps he was offering. You do too, OP.

Why not propose to him? His reaction will tell you everything you need to know.

If he objects on cost grounds, tell him that a simple, intimate registry office wedding with close family can be done for a few hundred pounds.

OP please don't take offence, people ARE being agitated because it's clear as a bell what's happening here and you sound so, so wide-eyed and naive about it - and you're clearly smart and articulate so people are thinking WTF why can't she see the obvious.

This is it:

So men really see marriage as more of a commitment than having a baby with their partner?

-Yes! Yes, because if you have a baby together he can simply walk away. He would probably get away without even paying maintenance if he put his mind to it. If you're married... you get a claim on his money, and his house, and his pension. Oh ho ho - very, very different.

I wish he would be clear with me.

• Being clear would be this. 'I'm fine with having a baby because you would do most if not all of the actual caring, you'll be the one taking the hit with your earning power, I'll get a baby out of it but I can walk away if I want and leave you to it and not much risk. But if I marry you then you'd have some rights - to my house, to my cash. I'm not committed to you enough for that. I'm in this for me, not for us.'

You think he's going to say that?!

he has a house and I am helping him pay the mortgage....yes I know not good.

(head in hands) - no, not good. He knows exactly what he's doing here OP, and it's very, very hard-nosed. He's making 100% sure he's taking from you and putting all the risks on you but keeping his investment safe.

These are the red flags, not his family.

He is not a good egg.

If you want a baby because you're not getting any younger - that's actually a slightly different situation. You could just go for it, if you know he's generally kind (if totally ruthless and willing to shaft you!) and healthy, and this way is easier than sperm donation in many ways. But be really clear on knowing that this guy does NOT want to commit to you and does not see you two as a team and he is protecting his interests over yours and making sure you are left very vulnerable. So you'd be doing it 'alone' in a very very important sense. One thing is essential: give your baby your surname, if you do get pregnant in this situation! Baby gets your name. If it ain't a married name, it's going to be your maiden one

But start protecting yourself. Are those mortgage help payments referenced, for example? Do that first. If you have money going out every month to his account from yours, label it 'mortgage payment'. May help you make a claim later if you split. Note, he probably won't like it at all if you do, which might give a bit more clarity.

He wants a kid and he doesn't want you.

He's keeping his options open re dumping the kid when you've had it.

Most unmarried couples who have DC split before DC1 is 5. Most absent fathers pay no maintenance.

Oh and you're 32?

You do have time.

Stop TTC now, for sure, and at least have a think.

Talk in more detail about how he'd see finances going if you did have a baby. Be clear, for example, that of course you would no longer pay the mortgage if you had a child together and he hadn't married you - in that situation, you'd immediately put the payments made to him into savings for yourself of course, because if he made you homeless then you'd need a nest egg to start again. What, he doesn't agree? Well then we'd need to be married. You have to pay your way? Oh but you would be, as having his child when not married is already YOU making a massive financial sacrifice in terms of earning power. His sacrifices would have to come from the things he has - you would expect him to cover far, far more than you in terms of living expenses.

Baby having his surname? Well of course not. What does he mean, it's traditional? Err, no, the tradition is actually that the baby has the mother's name but back in the day those mothers were married and had a married surname which was from their husband. If he wants tradition and a baby carrying his name, he knows where the registry office is, yes?

Stop the TTC and start some conversations like this, instead. The outcomes will tell you a LOT.

Start some conversations like that

oops too soon...

Start some conversations like that before you even make that next mortgage payment for him, in fact.

The biological clock has a lot to answer for.

Is the question not why are you happy to have a baby with him when he does not wish to commit to you?

As for paying the mortgage, a woman posted here about her boyfriend not contributing and living for free in her house and everyone told her to dump him.

So of course you should pay rent to live there and part of the bills, you shouldn't expect to live for free.

Anyway, as said, the question is not why does he wish to havea baby with you and not marry, it's why you wish to have a baby with him knowing he doesn't wish to marry you.

He knew I wanted to have a baby because I am not getting any younger. So I suppose I've just taken matters in to my own hands. I wish you would say he doesn't want a child if thats the case

And then

I wish he would be clear with me. but he seems enthusiastic and not against having a baby with me

Just to clarify OP, does your OH actually know that you're TTC? It sounds a bit to me like you've stopped contraception based on him not being adverse to the idea when you've chatted about it...?