Why would he be ok with a baby but not an engagement?

[Underthesun99]

Just that really. My bf and I have talked for a couple of years about getting engaged. I am frustrated and hurt because he has had lots of opportunities to propose but there always seems an excuse. He says it’s too expensive or not the right time. My bf kept saying once we get engaged we can try for a baby. But he won’t propose! However, we are now trying to conceive with no ring, no engagement or marriage.

My question is, I just don’t understand why my bf would be ok with us trying for a baby but not want to get engaged to me? Or at least be honest that he doesn’t find marriage important.

Don't do this! I did this exact thing because I didn't want to force marriage. I wanted him to want to marry me. It never happened. 18 years down the line and 3 children later I finally left. He wanted to have his cake and eat it. And he did! I left that relationship with no qualifications or job prospects because I was the stay at home parent. I was good enough to have children with, look after his elderly parents, work part time in his business- In the mean time his business thrived. He is practically a millionaire now. Whilst I'm just figuring out what I actually want to do with my life. I'm nearly 40 and got this far without even thinking about what I wanted from life. 18 years together- a lifetime, but I left that house that I had made a home with a couple of bin bags with my clothes. 18 years!! He had made sure he was looked after but I never did the same. Please don't become another me!!!
This is YOUR LIFE!! Do not let any one make you feel uncomfortable about expecting the respect you deserve, especially when you are talking about having a baby together. You may fall in love but you need to realise that there are very unromantic realities of building a life together, if this man truly loves and cares for you- he would want you both to have the best future possible, whether you last a lifetime or not.
If you are going to have children together you are joining lives, however that also includes homes, finances and all the other boring life stuff.
Do not be ashamed to say that you need to look after yourself and your future life if you were to have children together. Remember that this is your life too- seriously think about what you want. Please don't just go with the flow, hoping for the best, I can guarantee that it won't happen. Respect yourself and give him something to respect- being a doormat, willing to have his child with absolutely no commitment from him is a very easy way to let him know you are quite frankly just an option!
I may sound harsh but that is because I speak from experience and I wouldn't wish the kind of betrayal and heartbreak I've been through in my worst enemy!

@Underthesun99 it's just frustrating to see you trying to justify his actions (or lack of)

FWIW you've got a good few years left yet before you need to worry about your biological clock so please don't feel like you need to rush

I do think it sounds like he doesnt particularly want to get married (fair enough), not everyone does. Do what is right for YOU regarding having a child. At the end of the day, the vast majority of people replying to you on here will already have theirs, so easy to tell you to walk away

However he has a house and I am helping him pay the mortgage

Absolutely not surprising at all, so he is saying he is "not against" having a baby with you so he won't lose that nice mortgage payment, do you have any legal documentation that you are helping pay the mortgage? Or if he decides to end it will it be seen as "rent" and you have no stake in the house?

You are really doing the equivalent here of going la la la and sticking your fingers in your ears. Denial after all is a powerful force.

Is this mortgage in his sole name?. If this is the case why are you contributing towards it?.

@Doggybiccys You are making assumptions about a man you do not even know! You dont know what he wouldnt pay maintenance ffs!

Underthesun99 are you reliant on him financially? Will he be doing any of the childcare? If he walked away from you would you still have a roof over yours and the child’s head?

You need to make sure you are comfortable with the answer to these questions before having a child with this man.

How do you know he is not just saying he’ll propose to shut you up, how do you know he’s not going along with a baby because he thinks it won’t actually affect him so does it matter if he has a child.

You need to be really sure about all of this before you go ahead. And I’d insist on meeting his family.

Women are not turning on you and getting aggressive - people are just annoyed - you come on asking for advice and people are telling it like it is - you just don’t seem to want to hear it . People are trying to stop you making possibly the biggest mistake of your life .

I am helping him pay the mortgage....yes I know not good

Not, really not good. You do know that if you split, you'll be entitled to nothing while he's had a chunk of his mortgage paid off?

This is looking even worse. You are making yourself vulnerable. Please stop ttc.

No-one is turning on you. We're just not telling you what you want to hear. Sorry.

I have a slightly different perspective, as I too am with a man who didn't want to get married but really wants a child. In our case it's because he also came from a slightly dysfunctional family, both his dad and his brother are divorced and his brother's one in particular was incredibly traumatic. We have a wonderful life together and he just didn't see it as a priority. I genuinely don't believe that his anti marriage stance is a reflection on me. He certainly wasn't doing it to want to control me by making me give up my career to be a mum (wtf) or to run from commitment.

In a twist that probably undermines my whole message, we have recently got engaged after talking about it a lot rationally and coming to a mutual decision. It took a bit longer for him than me but I didn't push it and it didn't become a central issue.

I think you need to give him an ultimatum. Propose and actually get married or you're leaving. Stop ttc until you're married. You're helping him pay his mortgage and he doesn't even want to make any legal commitment to you. Protect yourself and stop letting yourself be used.

Stop paying his mortgage though dude!

Obviously men see marriage as more of a commitment than a baby!
One is legal contract which costs money to dissolve. It requires a lot of money up front.
The other is a proper ego boost and involves just getting her pregnant. Any feckless man can either leave and have a single life or stay and do fuck all but either way he still gets to be a dad. He can dodge paying as getting you pregnant is free anyway!
I told DH that I was not willing to have a long term relationship without marriage. Obviously he decided that he definitely wanted to marry me, and when he asked, I decided I wanted to marry him. No pleading or having to wonder if he wanted to because I knew he did.
However having a baby is a permanent decision and the father of your baby will be in your life forever. If this man is jerking you around, get rid because this is 50% of your child's DNA and one of the most important decisions you'll ever make.

So I suppose I've just taken matters in to my own hands
If this is true then you're a fool. How will he react when he finds out that you've lied to him. He is being straight with you. As a pp said you're not listening.
Nobody here can tell you what he's thinking, if you can't work out what he's up to then you're going to end up in a mess.

You're helping to pay his mortgage?!
Even though he won't marry you?
You're trying for a BABY with him?
Even though he won't even let you meet his family?

I despair sometimes I really do.

Of course he's happy to have a baby with you. Lots of barrier-free baby-making sex and if he chose he can fuck off into the blue yonder and pay minimal amounts or nothing, if he doesn't like the reality

^^This

Also, these days men want to protect their house/finances. Marrying would mean possible divorce which would mean losing savings etc. He's happy to sleep with you - but not to make a commitment. It says a lot.

What about women wanting to protect their finances?!

I don't think you're that old. Leave and find someone who will commit. Have a baby with someone who wants a life with you. It'll be a better life for you and your child/ children to have love and support.

He's holding out because it's easier to walk away from a baby ( unless you're the pregnant one) than it is to get divorced.

However, we are now trying to conceive with no ring, no engagement or marriage.

Well that's on you as much as him!

He is being clear. He likes you paying his mortgage and being around. He is scared of the commitment of marriage. He doesn't mind you having a baby as he sees it as a thing that YOU will do which will not bind him or commit him to anything.

Of course he's fine with things as they are he is taking no risk and you are taking all the risk.

A 40 year old man should be better than this - please look at his actions and conclude he is not stepping up. How could a man who claims to love you behave this way?

Some people genuinley don't want to get married though, I love my partner we have 2 beautiful children together and have a fairly happy life, we have spoke an out having another child in the future and have many plans for our future. I will no however get married and he knows this hence no proposals.
My reasons are extremely complicated family issues on both sides which would make the day a nightmare anyway, and also each and every one of both our parents marriages have broken down or had major problems. That is a total of 6 marriages between them all. There we're no issues when they were all planning to get married obviously or they wouldn't have got married in the first place, they mostly had children before they married so it wasn't children that caused the relationship to break down; and once the relationship did breakdown it was a nightmare to get out of - which wasn't good for anyone involved least of all the children.

Those are obviously my own thoughts and feelings on marriage, and may have nothing to do with your partners views but equally he may have his own opinions on marriage and if it is very important to you- and both of your feelings are valid - then you do need a conversation and to work out how to move forward now.

oh darling honestly this makes me so sad ((((()))) hugs to you

firstly you're 32 - time is NOT running out for you to have a baby, the average age of a first time mother in the UK is 28.6 years. Seriously please stop regarding this guy as your last chance.

secondly as others have said he is being completely honest with you - he does not want to marry you which I know is hugely hurtful because of course you think 'why the hell not?' If he wanted to marry you, he would, he really would

thirdly he'll have a baby with you because it is far less of a committment than marriage. Marriage is a legal contract made with you from which he cant just walk away with no consequences, having a baby is not the same

definitely stop paying into his mortgage (I'm assuming you're not named on the mortgage deeds btw).

This guy has stomped all over every one of your boundaries and dreams.

You want a husband, to buy a house with that husband, then to have children with that husband.

He's managed to get your to give up your dreams and he gets to do whatever he wants.

I would stop ttc with him and move out.

Tell him you want marriage and children and they way things are isn't what you really want. because it really isn't. You're living in some guy's house that he owns. So you don't have a house. You are also paying for his house. You have a boyfriend but no husband.

This isn't what you really want but he's convinced you to do what he wants.

I would tell him exactly what you want and no excuses and move out.
This hoping and waiting around just gets you used and you are being used.

@gypsywater.... Too long in the tooth and maybe too much time on Mumsnet to know this is the case 99% of the time.

Is your name on the mortgage?

My god. So you could get pregnant and if he decides to kick you out then you and your child will have no home!

Yes, some men DO see marriage as more of a commitment than a child. Look at how many men walk away from their children and fight tooth and nail to avoid paying maintenance.

Please wake up.