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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

To have such minimal contact with my parents?

225 replies

Euromillsplz · 29/10/2019 07:45

There's never been much of a relationship, but the way my mum spoke to me last night has sparked this post. They make me feel like shit; a silly little girl. I'm 41.

A couple of weeks ago, they had dd9 on inset day- well my dad did which is almost unheard of, as mum had plans. Long story short- he bought her a pair of £48 trainers she'd been begging me for as she got soaked in a puddle (standard). He also took her for lunch in a nice restaurant, swimming etc. I was grateful (and impressed!)

That evening when I saw how much the trainers were, I put £50 in their account. Sent my dad a text saying thanks so much for having her, I'm paying you back for the trainers. He didn't reply.

Next time they picked dd up from school she came back with £2 change for me. His way of being passive aggressive and petty. Dd told me he said he wasn't happy with me putting the money in. Still no text though.

Had a rare (always uncomfortable and awkward) phone call with mum last night (almost never speak to dad- he actively showed no interest in me growing up - I was insignificant, not as good as others in the world so why bother trying or having goals when there's so much competition out there, etc etc- a very minor snapshot). Trying hard not to digress incoherently but because there's SO MUCH it's hard to get my point across without the extra detail, otherwise it sounds petty.

So last night- she makes her point as usual that it's a phone call (albeit rare) about dd (in case I get above my station and think she's showing any interest in me). About one of her activities- they insist on paying for most of her extracurricular things, which of course I appreciate.

I commented that i'd seen how expensive each session was and said I'd pay half, to which she replied in her VERY best patronising tone "oh stop going ON about it". I said I'm not going on about it, I've only said it once!- to which she stuttered something, then said "and that money you put back in our account, dad didn't want you to". I said I wasn't doing it to annoy anyone- DD had been begging me for those trainers and maybe she'd done the same to him. Oh she didn't like that- as if he'd be so weak as to give in to a child's demands (she didn't say as much but still).

The rest of the phone call was a standard exercise in trying to get off the phone. Afterwards I felt shit all evening. They'd put me back in my place- silly little girl who shouldn't try to make decisions for herself. Who dared to go against her parent's authority. Who deliberately tried to mess up their control over my daughter.

Because there's so much else, I probably haven't explained this very well and it might sound petty.

My parents are not in the least rich- they're just mortgage free and seem to be able to pay for things without a problem. My dad has been generous over the years and has been known to put 500 in my bank account for example- which has of course helped out endlessly. But theres no relationship. There's a lot of growing up stuff I can't really forgive. Constant - CONSTANT- negativity, put downs, unhidden resentment that he had children at all. Unemotional (apart from anger)- yet we were categorically NOT ALLOWED to show anger. Ever. Saying anything at all after he'd spoken was answering back, being impertinent.

With my daughter it's like he's suddenly found how to be a 'perfect parent' and my mother being the meek little enabler that she is (she's another story in herself) seems to think I should shut up and be grateful. Yes, I'm grateful for the financial help. Just not for the attitude that goes with it.

There's a lifetime of stuff I should probably leave out for fear of no-one reaching the end. I hope I've said enough to get across why I feel like shit over this.

OP posts:
sprouts21 · 29/10/2019 15:55

You don't say whether you were actually going to buy these trainers, but in reimbursing them you have effectively allowed somebody else to spend your money. You also run the risk that they might expect to be reimbursed for further treats.

Sassanacs · 29/10/2019 15:57

@Euromillsplz oh thank you Blush but I'm not really. What keeps me sane and resolute is the knowledge that I am a decent human being and she is not. If you took everything else out of the equation she's left with nothing but her own bullshit. How sad is that! 70+ years on this planet and you're nothing but an asshole Grin

I hope you begin to feel more comfortable with low contact. You don't deserve to be made to feel shit and there's nothing wrong with protecting yourself by maintaining a distance you are comfortable with.

All the best and thanks for the well wishes Thanks

Jaggypinecone · 29/10/2019 16:46

@Sassanacs She instead will ask me questions and 9/10 won't bother to listen to the answer

Gawd, yes. This!!!!! In spades. Even my DD noticed it last time. She asked me something and as I was drawing breath to answer she jumped in to totally change the conversation. It's sooooooooo draining. I'm trying to reduce our time together which is difficult as I then feel guilty for not going to visit once a week for a couple of hours (she's only 20 minutes away).

The realisation for me dawned when I saw how other folk interacted with their parents. A friend's Dad died earlier this year after a long illness. She was doting and devoted because of a mutual love. I just couldn't imagine feeling the same way about my Mum and then thought there was something wrong with me.

This article really hit home with me. [https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/feb/16/indifferent-towards-mother]

Whilst I'm not indifferent, I do actually care, it's more of a realisation that I'll never have the sort of mother/daughter relationship that I see others having. The thought of going to her with any problems makes me cringe, as does hugs and stuff. Thankfully this is not the case with my own daughter and we have a good relationship (I think). She tells me plenty anyway and we enjoy trips together.

Sassanacs · 29/10/2019 17:09

@Jaggypinecone yes that article describes my situation in a nutshell. She would deny to the ends of the earth that there is an issue but I'm now past the point of caring.

I've often thought, a few times recently.. that I would love to just say to her "when did you stop loving me" or "have you ever loved me"? and I think it's recognising the loving, unconditional relationship that I have with my own daughter (as much as you can with a terrible two yr old Grin ) that makes me think that way. And it wouldn't be because I'm seeking some semblance of maternal instinct or love, but because I know deep inside that she doesn't and I wish she had the guts to say it.

As long as she is kind and loving to my kids then I'm ok with it but if it ever changed or she crossed the line in some way (much like my MIL did) then I would cut her out and think no more about it.

Sounds so cold to some ppl I'm sure but I'm not ashamed to say it either. The fact is I've never done anything wrong and if her dislike of me stems from childhood like I believe it does then that says more about her. IMO anyway Wink

Your relationship with your daughter sounds lovely. I can't wait for when I can take my girl shopping, lunching etc. And I will welcome any future DiL into my home also.

I've had bad luck with both unfortunately Shock

Herocomplex · 29/10/2019 17:10

@Jaggypinecone you’ve trained yourself to protect your feelings from your mother, the love was there from you, but not returned. The sadness when you see other people love their parents and get love in return is very painful. I’m glad you’ve broken the cycle with your own children.

monkeymonkey2010 · 29/10/2019 17:29

they insist on paying for most of her extracurricular things, which of course I appreciate
They use money to control you and through you - your daughter.

They'd put me back in my place- silly little girl who shouldn't try to make decisions for herself. Who dared to go against her parent's authority. Who deliberately tried to mess up their control over my daughter
So what are you going to do about it?
Let them carry on financing your dd's upbringing so they always have a hold over you?
The older your DD gets the more money they will throw at her to buy her affections from you.....and it wouldn't surprise me if when she hits the terrible teens they manipulate her into living with them.
Then your dad will have the DD he wants and both your parents can twist the knife into your back well and proper.

Some parents are too toxic to have in your life - find the strength to break free of their control before they turn your DD against you.

Greenmum2019 · 29/10/2019 17:37

This thread makes me think of the Gilmore Girls.

TheTickingTime · 29/10/2019 17:48

Oh my word you have all my simpathy. Smae here. My parents are embarrassed about my existence and I have stopped trying. They are very much like your parents. I totally get you and woukd have done the same re money in account. My parents have dictated my children and completely ignored my polite input when asking them to back off as I am their mother. Thankfully my kids are grown but they are condescending, all the time. I live 2000 miles away from them now. I had counceling regarding my parents and upbringing and it was eye opening and fantastic.

rvby · 29/10/2019 18:01

@Euromillsplz

Um, just being polite I guess. Grateful. Afterward I googled them and thought blimey, nearly 50 quid! I feel bad- maybe I'll pay him for those as DD was begging me for them just the other day.

Here's something to think about... if your parents were terrible at parenting you, and left you quite bereft in some ways, why did you feel bad about them perhaps making up for it in some way by spending money on your family?

I'll put it from my perspective: My DM is terrible at mothering. However, when she does do something nice for my DC, I accept it and don't try to cancel it out, or pay her back, or make it up to her, in any way. Because... she doesn't usually do much well. I guess you could say that she owes me, she should be trying with me and my DC. So I don't every look a gifthorse in the mouth in that sense.

Can you talk about why you would want to make something up to your dad, when there is so little that he has done for you in the first place? I'm interested in that dynamic.

chubbyspice · 29/10/2019 18:22

I get it. My DM is a narc. She did have a good relationship with my DC but this summer, after a weekend together my DD (11) came back in tears from her granny's. My DM had been constantly picking on her about her clothes and other stuff. As a result, DD didn't want to do anything with her which was then fuel for DM's fire. There wasn't any point telling my DM how much she had upset my DD - DM is never, ever wrong and always plays the victim. I did however tell my father that that kids wouldn't be going to GPs house again if this was going to happen. It really upset me as it brought up so much of what DM was like to me during my childhood.
But on the subject of buying, my parents are generous to the kids but DM always asks 'Did DD wear the jacket/use the bag much'. It's a control thing. Obviously if you buy someone something then you'd like to see them get use of it but this goes beyond that - she'll ask for months after. It doesn't feel like the gift is genuinely meant, more as something that DM will be able to cast up.
If it comes with strings attached then it's not a gift, just a way of controlling

MatildaCat · 29/10/2019 19:07

I wonder if pp who have said you were being passive aggressive by paying him back have much understanding of parents like this. It didn't strike me as PA at all but I have a difficult (in a different way) relationship with DM too.

I think it's a product of a combination of needing autonomy/separation/respect/approval from them that would drive something like this.

I think LC or grey rock would work.

Agree with some pp that if you make that choice you can't have it both ways.

I try to be grey rock with my DM now and in every interaction I have to be very considered and boundaried. It's hard and I don't always manage to maintain it though!

Trewser · 29/10/2019 19:20

The older your DD gets the more money they will throw at her to buy her affections from you.....and it wouldn't surprise me if when she hits the terrible teens they manipulate her into living with them. Then your dad will have the DD he wants and both your parents can twist the knife into your back well and proper

Absolutely insane MN 'logic'

EKGEMS · 29/10/2019 20:18

stucknoue Your post HAS to be one of the meanest ones I've read in a very long time "You have issues" This poor woman had a very unhappy childhood and telling her that is really low

pikapikachu · 30/10/2019 00:03

I suspect that many of the replies saying yabu are from people who don't have dysfunctional relationship with their parents.

I bet that this was one of those catch-22 situations - if you didn't pay you'd be ungrateful and if you did pay you'd be depriving your Dad of a chance to treat your dd.

Since your current dynamic involves taking money from your Dad, I'm inclined to view the trainers as him doing something similar and helping financially. I think the correct etiquette would have been to thank them, ask if they wanted reimbursing then reimbursing.

They clearly use money to control you (and now your dd). I bet they chose the extracurricular stuff and share that you need financial handouts from them? If you don't want to be controlled, you need to keep your dd away from all that.

gluteustothemaximus · 30/10/2019 00:23

I'm a few years down the line now of no contact with parents.

Whay can I say; it's utter bliss. I have grown into the woman I was supposed to be. Confidence keeps growing. They no longer control me or hurt me.

And to the PP who said they'd turn your teen against you and twist the knife more, they were absolutely right. This is what parents like that do.

You don't need people like that. They're not murderers. They're not serial killers. But they are arsholes. They are toxic. And you don't need that shit in your life.

Life is too short.

AmICrazyorWhat2 · 30/10/2019 00:39

I agree with Preggosaurus9 and Fizzypoo.

You need to either set aside the past and accept them as they are (flaws and all) or go v. low contact and no longer accept any gifts from them. Otherwise their behaviour will continue to upset you.

My Dad was similar growing up, lots of negativity and criticism, but needing/wanting tons of positive support himself. He still seems to have no idea how his behaviour affects others! But, I've accepted that's the way it is and have become immune to his jibes - I feel sorry that he's not a happy person and when he's being nice and wants to give his GC something, I accept it.

Letting go of your resentment is v. liberating, they can't affect you anymore and you don't need their approval. Flowers.

FeeFee832 · 30/10/2019 00:46

This is really sad. I think it's nice you put the money in their account. Not passive aggressive??

FeeFee832 · 30/10/2019 00:49

I don't know why people are being such arseholes to you!!! AngryAngryAngry

Ignore them. Xx

Jaggypinecone · 30/10/2019 08:49

@Herocomplex - thank you, that seems very insightful. I am visiting her soon and already I feel anxious about it. I need to build a better boundary.

@Matildacat - what is grey rock? I'm guessing a boundary mechanism. Could you explain it better? It may be something I need to adopt

Herocomplex · 30/10/2019 09:03

@Jaggypinecone - there’s lots of great resources on grey rock and other techniques on the opening post of the Stately Homes thread.

Deciding what behaviour you’re prepared to accept is a great first step in finding better equilibrium in your relationship.

MatildaCat · 30/10/2019 13:51

@Jaggypinecone I'm no expert but first heard of it on MN and googled. It's basically a way of doing low contact. Make yourself really boring to emotionally abusive parents so that they have nothing to fizz against. It takes practise! I've put a moon emoji next to my mum's name in my phone to remind myself to be a grey rock when she calls!

Jaggypinecone · 30/10/2019 14:10

I’ll try that. I’m trying to be more detached and not take things personally. It is hard though. Sorry to hijack your thread OP. Hope you’ve found some of these posts and experiences

Euromillsplz · 30/10/2019 15:14

Honestly, all the helpful and kind comments are really appreciated.

@TheTickingTime - it's good to know counselling helped you. I had some sessions last year and intend to pick it up again soon for the sake of my sanity.!

@rvby - I think I feel bad because that's my default mode - always guilty, never wanting to be though of as ungrateful. I hear your point about not looking a gift horse in the mouth. After all, it's what my mum would say!! I need to put this into practice..
Actually, speaking of feeling ungrateful - it's reminded me of one of my earliest memories (and I think it became a lasting memory because it was reinforced by my dad's later comments about it during childhood..) aged 3 or 4, stashing all my xmas presents around me in a pile. He referred to that a number of times as evidence of my 'selfishness ' . I remember it hurt, but I think I agreed and 'laughed ' it off.. dick.

Also, the imbecile upthread (cba to find the name) who actually said I've "smashed" my daughters memories of a nice day out etc- WHAT?!?! I know I referred to it yesterday but it played on my mind later on.
Thanks to the poster who later said if anything negative HAD been said, it was from him not me. I transferred the money online- nothing she had to know about at all- and for those who thought it was terribly cruel of me to deny him giving a gift - if HE hadn't said anything to her, she wouldn't have known anyway! As far as she was concerned, he had bought them. Personally I think whoever came out with that comment has issues with their own children/grandchildren to be that vile and nasty.

@MatildaCat I agree with you- I really think you can only properly understand this kind of dynamic if you've experienced it personally. Otherwise it just seems mad, I get that. It is, as you said, a combination of needing autonomy, respect etc. Anyway, sounds like you're doing well, and I hope it gets easier for you.

Thanks so much @EKGEMS and @FeeFee832 xx

@gluteustothemaximus -I have grown into the woman I was supposed to be-
That's kind of what I feel I'm getting a bit closer to sometimes, but has taken me way longer to get even here than it ever should have done. It's those internalised negative voices that are so hard to ignore. I'll get there...💪

@AmICrazyorWhat2 letting go of resentment is the dream! I'm glad you've managed to do that- you sound really kind.

OP posts:
Euromillsplz · 30/10/2019 15:16

@Jaggypinecone you have nothing to apologise for- not derailed in the least. It's all really useful stuff, and as a PP suggested upthread, it's like group therapy, which I'm really grateful for.
Thanks all xx

OP posts:
AmICrazyorWhat2 · 30/10/2019 19:45

I'm not especially kind Grin I've just realised that he's the one with the problem, not me. I can't control how he treats me or other people, that's his decision - I'm not going to let it upset me anymore.

The important thing is not to repeat their behaviour with our own DC, the negativity stops here!

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