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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

To have such minimal contact with my parents?

225 replies

Euromillsplz · 29/10/2019 07:45

There's never been much of a relationship, but the way my mum spoke to me last night has sparked this post. They make me feel like shit; a silly little girl. I'm 41.

A couple of weeks ago, they had dd9 on inset day- well my dad did which is almost unheard of, as mum had plans. Long story short- he bought her a pair of £48 trainers she'd been begging me for as she got soaked in a puddle (standard). He also took her for lunch in a nice restaurant, swimming etc. I was grateful (and impressed!)

That evening when I saw how much the trainers were, I put £50 in their account. Sent my dad a text saying thanks so much for having her, I'm paying you back for the trainers. He didn't reply.

Next time they picked dd up from school she came back with £2 change for me. His way of being passive aggressive and petty. Dd told me he said he wasn't happy with me putting the money in. Still no text though.

Had a rare (always uncomfortable and awkward) phone call with mum last night (almost never speak to dad- he actively showed no interest in me growing up - I was insignificant, not as good as others in the world so why bother trying or having goals when there's so much competition out there, etc etc- a very minor snapshot). Trying hard not to digress incoherently but because there's SO MUCH it's hard to get my point across without the extra detail, otherwise it sounds petty.

So last night- she makes her point as usual that it's a phone call (albeit rare) about dd (in case I get above my station and think she's showing any interest in me). About one of her activities- they insist on paying for most of her extracurricular things, which of course I appreciate.

I commented that i'd seen how expensive each session was and said I'd pay half, to which she replied in her VERY best patronising tone "oh stop going ON about it". I said I'm not going on about it, I've only said it once!- to which she stuttered something, then said "and that money you put back in our account, dad didn't want you to". I said I wasn't doing it to annoy anyone- DD had been begging me for those trainers and maybe she'd done the same to him. Oh she didn't like that- as if he'd be so weak as to give in to a child's demands (she didn't say as much but still).

The rest of the phone call was a standard exercise in trying to get off the phone. Afterwards I felt shit all evening. They'd put me back in my place- silly little girl who shouldn't try to make decisions for herself. Who dared to go against her parent's authority. Who deliberately tried to mess up their control over my daughter.

Because there's so much else, I probably haven't explained this very well and it might sound petty.

My parents are not in the least rich- they're just mortgage free and seem to be able to pay for things without a problem. My dad has been generous over the years and has been known to put 500 in my bank account for example- which has of course helped out endlessly. But theres no relationship. There's a lot of growing up stuff I can't really forgive. Constant - CONSTANT- negativity, put downs, unhidden resentment that he had children at all. Unemotional (apart from anger)- yet we were categorically NOT ALLOWED to show anger. Ever. Saying anything at all after he'd spoken was answering back, being impertinent.

With my daughter it's like he's suddenly found how to be a 'perfect parent' and my mother being the meek little enabler that she is (she's another story in herself) seems to think I should shut up and be grateful. Yes, I'm grateful for the financial help. Just not for the attitude that goes with it.

There's a lifetime of stuff I should probably leave out for fear of no-one reaching the end. I hope I've said enough to get across why I feel like shit over this.

OP posts:
thaegumathteth · 29/10/2019 10:52

I do understand the kind of relationship you're talking about but that I genuinely don't understand is why you get childcare help from them. I still see similar family members so my kids still have the relationship but I do not ask them for favours EVER.

formerbabe · 29/10/2019 10:57

Yes I have considered therapy, of course I have and perhaps when I stop paying for everything I'll be able to afford it!

This is really passive aggressive and confusing. You don't want their money apparently but you're moaning about paying for everything.

Euromillsplz · 29/10/2019 11:02

@formerbabe just a joke. Tryjng to lighten the mood, laugh at myself a bit.

OP posts:
Trewser · 29/10/2019 11:04

Not sure if you answered this, but why did you thank him profusely for the trainers if you knew you were going to pay him back?

Euromillsplz · 29/10/2019 11:05

@thaegumathteth yeah I hear you, nothing is straightforward or necessary ideal. Absolutely.

To PPs 'on the other side of the argument' - not a part of my being thinks I am 'normal' or 'ok' on any level. Rest assured.

OP posts:
Interestedwoman · 29/10/2019 11:06

I can kind of get how you feel and I don't think you were wrong to put
money in their account as such, though as previous PP's have said maybe you should've mentioned it to them first.

It seems to me that you had an unpleasant childhood and now see that they're trying to use stuff/money to display affection. To you this seems a token effort, without the emotional engagement you craved as a child, and that's why you're upset. Maybe they used to do the same to you as a child, and so it's even more painful.

I think therapy might help- I'm not earning but I prioritize it. When you find the right therapist, it's worth it. You might have to try out a couple to find one that suits you.

IMO it can be useful to have a therapist who gives concrete advice on how to handle real world situations you're facing. People think therapy is all about healing past trauma, but that is only dealing with some factors, or won't be dealing with it as quickly as also having a strategy for the here and now. For instance, some of the session might be doing work processing the past, but part of it would be something like 'they've been doing X and it makes me uncomfortable' and the therapist makes a suggestion of possible ways you could handle it to get the outcome you want.

Not only are you feeling the influence of stuff in the past, but you also have to deal with real-time relationships as well, and for myself, as I struggle with how to handle social situations or disagreements, it helped me to have someone give me ideas for how to act socially. Even if I didn't act exactly as she suggested, having a suggested plan gave me confidence to engage with the situation and try and achieve my goals for that friendship/relationship etc.

Best wishes and hope all goes well.

IMO your mum has now said 'stop going on about it' and so you need to either let them pay for the stuff they want to pay for, or put your foot down if you're not happy with it and lay out to them how you want to handle things. You could write down to make clear for yourself what you're happy with, then discuss it with them and say that this is how it has to be going forward.

Can you accept that this is something they want to do, and just let them get on with it? How painful do you find them buying your daughter stuff and paying for activities? Is it something you could live with now you've incontrovertibly been told it's not something you have to worry or feel guilty about?

What's best for your daughter? Arguably, they're helping her have a lot of stuff she wants and activities she's benefiting from. You feel uncomfortable about it understandably because of how they treated you in the past, but your daughter is only getting plus points from them buying her stuff, unless you being disturbed by it is impacting on her.

I'm not an expert and think an expert (one that's not too fluffy and also deals with the here and now) would help you deal with the situation. xx

Euromillsplz · 29/10/2019 11:07

Oh, hello again @Trewser.

Um, just being polite I guess. Grateful. Afterward I googled them and thought blimey, nearly 50 quid! I feel bad- maybe I'll pay him for those as DD was begging me for them just the other day.

My bad apparently.

OP posts:
angell84 · 29/10/2019 11:12

Really sorry for being off topic for a moment - but can anyone help me. How do I start a new thread in AIBU?

Euromillsplz · 29/10/2019 11:19

@Interestedwoman thanks for your post, I really appreciate it.

I'm honestly happy for them to pay for things- I just don't seem to have the mindset a lot of people on here have (maybe that makes me extra odd, I don't know) that's it's rude or ungrateful to not want them forking out for expensive things. Yes, I get that they want to do it. Yes, I've learnt my lesson and won't insist on them having the money back.

I personally cannot relate to the mindset that it's 'trying to be the big person'.

Am I the only one who seems to think that maybe, because my parents have always insisted on paying for things (which I have ALWAYS found generous actually), that they've kind of modelled that behaviour and so my immediate response is to try to do the same?? I'm not saying it's not fucked up. It just doesn't have the passive aggressive undertones that so many on here seem to immediately assume.

While I find it generous and am grateful - there is the element of feeling like it's some form of passive aggressive control in itself- so when I DO go to pay for things myself, I'm out back in my place. 'Stop going on about it'. Ignoring my text.

Interesting how many people jump to cynical conclusions about my motivation.

Sorry, @interestedwoman I've gone off one one there. Thanks for your post x

OP posts:
BykerBykerWooooo · 29/10/2019 11:19

I get it OP. My parents are very generous with gifts and never let you forget about it. It took me til I hit 40 to actually cut the apron strings and say no thanks, no more. I hate to admit I was scared of doing so before (isn’t that crazy) and it feels wonderful to be free.

They can visit any time but I would never use them for childcare or allow any favours. It’s just not worth it.

I drew boundaries and expressed them clearly - was told I was unreasonable, bitter, insane etc etc. It’s not easy but it’s so worth it.

itmightbeamistaketohaveasteak · 29/10/2019 11:25

I think that once people have processed feelings from their past then it is easier to see everything clearly. The reason why eg someone might keep accepting money/childcare is because their feelings are still confused and not yet procesesed - guilt about the past, feeling responsible for how their parents behaved, worried about depriving their dc of something good..until they realise that actually it might not be good. Realising it might not be good and moving away completely might sound easy but it isn't. The same as leaving an abusive relationship - saying "but he is nice sometimes" and feeling you are being precious for judging the bad things, or just being so battered down that you feel you don't deserve a life with happiness and peace of mind.

Also misplaced guilt from others, such as this:

Your parents are each products of their own upbringing & experiences. What were their lives like as children? What were their parents lives like that produced the people they were? Your DD has had her happy memory taken from her & smashed. Her lovely day out & her new pair of trainers is a tainted memory now that'll be something she will remember as she grows up & it won't be her grandfather she associates with destroying it, it'll be you. We all have key memories from childhood that set the pattern of how we feel about out parents & she'll have hers just as you had yours & your parents had theirs & back as far as you can trace. The pattern of every nice thing she has with or from her GPs being destroyed by you will either be set in concrete & predictable or you change & break the pattern. Once you realise that what you do impacts on your children & isn't what you intended it to do you start to get insight into how & why you are what you are & that maybe there were times your parents didn't intend their actions to impact on you in the way that they did

And just to respond to a couple of things in the above quote from a pp:

What were their lives like as children? What were their parents lives like that produced the people they were?

Understanding why someone is abusive to someone else is useful but it doesn't negate the abuse, especially if the abuse is ongoing. People are usually judged on their actions. Their intention can be relevant, but if someone is unkind to a child and then into their adulthood for decades and there is no prospect of it ending, then is intention relevant? Also, if people are unkind to one person chances are they will be unkind to others, including the grandchildren, even if in a different way, even if unintentional.

Once you realise that what you do impacts on your children having a relationship with people who do not care about your parents would also impact on children - I would say having relationships with people who do care generally would be better than a nice day out with new trainers.

EmeraldShamrock · 29/10/2019 11:33

Gifts should come with ribbons not strings.
read that on a past thread

Sassanacs · 29/10/2019 11:43

YANBU, I can totally relate to this dynamic. My mum has never been maternal towards me (can't knock her as a nan) and the older she gets the more negative she gets.

Latest example, I've managed to find an absolute gold dust job which if successful would be my ticket out of SAHM status and totally flip our financial situation on its head, for the better. I wasn't going to tell her for the exact reason I've stated but she happened to come round when I was wearing my new interview shoes (no other reason for having these shoes, I've no need to dress smartly day to day) so I told her and she went silent with a face like thunder. So I just carried on speaking positively about the role and she went off saying "you do too much already, how are you going to fit in a full time job" "what about all the domestic side of things" Hmm "where will DC2 go" "I don't understand why you can't cope on one salary, and you stay at home... I did it and as a single parent" HmmHmm blah blah blah

Honestly I wanted to slap her, but I said "why are you being so negative. Can't you be happy that I've actually managed to find a job that ticks all our boxes (salary, commute, proximity to DC1 and DC2 childcare etc) and still allows us weekends for family time"

This job isn't niche but the local market is beyond tough and my only stipulation for being a SAH with no fixed end in sight was that I stay true to my career path/quals and get the right job. It's taken over 2.5 years for this job to come up and I check job boards religiously- every day/week without fail.

Next comment "what if one of the children are ill, you'll be the one they (school etc) call - not DH" so I said well yes for the three days that DH will be in the office but Mon/Fri he will be around. Then comes "we'll obviously I know nothing about going to work do I" - to which I replied I never said that Mum, just making the point that flexible working/wfh is perfectly normal now. You don't need to be physically present all the time.

Obvs not satisfied with me not biting she said "well if you think it's so easy now you have two DC, we'll see". I said I haven't said it will be easy, we are not blind to the fact there will be a period of adjustment but we'll split things 50/50 or as close to as we always do.

"Oh yes, you're always going on about your modern household and how things aren't the way they used to be". FFS Angry

Honestly, I don't harp on but politely remind her my DH is just as involved and we split chores etc. That it's not all MY responsibility so I'd appreciate it if she didn't talk as if it were or make assumptions about our family dynamic. I think that's fair enough - I wouldn't dream of doing that to someone.

Constant negativity, snide comments, underhand remarks. It's always been that way since I was young (a problem child apparently) and has got worse. She's even managed to convince my step dad that this is fact even though he wasn't around until I was 14 but he repeats it back dutifully when they like to use me as a source of amusement. It's pitiful really but I'm too headstrong to let this get to me.

I simply tolerate her now. Keep things civil but I won't lie it will be easier when she isn't here anymore. It's so sad as I'm incredibly close with both my children and wouldn't dream of making such negative comments to them.

It's horrible but ppl who don't have this type of relationship won't understand.

It wasn't underhand or provocative to put the money in his account. You are allowed to live with integrity and by your own rules/beliefs as much as they are. There's no reason why your dad couldn't have texted to say "no need to reimburse, I was happy to pay for them but thanks for the money". That would have been a reasonable response. Why ppl think you need to pander to your parents ways is beyond me.

Also I think it takes a strong person to be able to separate them from how they treated you as parents to how they are as GP. If they were trying to poison your kids against you or using them to coerce you that's different and you come across as someone who is very self aware and capable of making that distinction.

Keep it civil, don't rise to their bait, hold your head high and don't let them crush your spirit.

Herocomplex · 29/10/2019 11:53

@Sassanacs that sounds brilliant about the new job! The trouble for your DM is that she sees your independence and excitement and it’s very threatening to her for some reason. You’ve dealt with it exactly right, I think. Good for you, and best of luck!

Sassanacs · 29/10/2019 12:35

@Herocomplex yes I did think in the past that she was threatened in some way but then dismissed it as she has always been open about (her words) her lack of ambition and willingness to take on any old job. She also knows that I am fiercely independent and always have been.

Lightbulb moment! Maybe that's it, because I've never needed her (although I learnt to not rely on her from a very young age - big old can of worms I'm not going to open) she 'protects' herself by being distant and mean spirited. Who knows.

I recognise that it was tough as a single mum but it's equally as tough when you are in any situation that you didn't choose and must just get on with it.

Thank you for the well wishes. Interview outfit sorted, prep done and everything crossed! Grin

sweetiepy · 29/10/2019 13:26

If you dislike them so much you should go NC, but then you wouldn’t have access to the money they give you! Would you be happy not having the money they give you?

They obviously want a relationship with your dd, given that they pay for her after school clubs, buy her gifts, as well as pick her up from school and provide childcare. I think you are jealous that they are doing all the things with your dd that you wish they had done with you? Who can blame you though? It must be pretty galling, but you either have to accept it or cut the ties completely.

Euromillsplz · 29/10/2019 15:00

@BykerBykerWooooo- it doesn't sound crazy, I totally get it. I'm in my 40s and still find it so hard to stand up to them. It's all ok as long as I comply and agree... well done for being so strong. I'm hoping to learn a thing or two here...

OP posts:
Jaggypinecone · 29/10/2019 15:05

@Sassanacs wow, I can so relate to your Mum's reaction. Mine is much the same. Doesn't think I'm independent enough to make the best decisions for Rather than be happy for my life choices, she is negative all the time, like she resents that I've made my life good because I made conscious choices that she never did (or never had the balls to do). I understand it's the blueprint she was given going back to her own upbringing but I'm not working to that blueprint and that makes her uncomfortable. She has tried to turn me into a version of herself as if to give her life validation and she can't cope with me being different.
Even just last week we'd returned from holiday up north. She never asked me about it at all - I had to ask her (after her lengthy conversation about herself) if she wanted to hear my news. She said, 'oh yes go on then, shame about the weather' I replied that we'd had lovely weather but she continued to go on about how rubbish it had been back home .......... blah blah blah. No interest whatsoever or any positivity or happiness that we'd been blessed with good weather.

All the small stuff that when I mention to DH he thinks I'm over reacting but he's eventually getting it. Only someone who has been through the same understands entirely.

Euromillsplz · 29/10/2019 15:05

@itmightbeamistaketohaveasteak
Your point about processing the past is spot on. Things ARE confused- it's all such a complex web of mixed feelings/blurred vision/ misunderstandings. Of course I still have that drive to not upset my parents. They sulk. Theyre so passive aggressive it's untrue. They make snide comments. I'm trying not to be the person who blames their upbringing- trying to take responsibility, but it's a lot harder than it might seem to someone who's never been there. Guilt plays a huge part. Today I feel sad- really sad. But always hesitant to reach out to them because I never know which side I'm going to get.
@itmightbeamistake your post almost brought me to tears:)

OP posts:
Euromillsplz · 29/10/2019 15:06

(In a good way)

OP posts:
Euromillsplz · 29/10/2019 15:10

@Sassanacs
You sound amazing- wishing you ALL the luck with your job!!
Wow you're incredibly strong in the face of such determined negativity.
Neither of my parents are remotely vocal like that- it's all about the unspoken/odd comments. Getting your stepdad in on the act is a whole new level of awful! Absolute madness.

Thank you for your supportive comments- they really are appreciated a whole lot.

OP posts:
Euromillsplz · 29/10/2019 15:14

@Jaggypinecone- I had a very similar conversation with my own mum this year! Saw her straight after our holiday- I started telling an 'interesting ' tale about something stressful that happened on the last day (complete with vocal intonation and gestures to match!) and she literally cut me off with 'oh look how stressed it's making you talking about it, stop it!'

🙄

OP posts:
CallmeBadJanet · 29/10/2019 15:19

Feel for you OP. I'm ancient and due to losing one parent last year, am only now beginning to understand the reasons why I behave in certain ways and have certain feelings, and why those behaviours and feelings went from my childhood, adolescence up to when I became a parent myself. One word, control. It has been emotionally very hard dealing with my recent epiphany; I haven't yet ventured to counselling (can barely afford food!). But I have resolved to put better boundaries around myself, to stop others from controlling me (clearer, firmer communication) and to start not giving a toss what other people think. And to not do to my child, what my parents did to me. Counselling will help you in the long term. Short term? Wine and "Motherland". Good luck

nibdedibble · 29/10/2019 15:38

Oh, I wish all the people criticising the OP's reaction about the money and about her dad's lack of response to the text could understand what it's like to have very little feeling for what's reasonable in these family interactions.

If you have had an upbringing where you were constantly put down, you genuinely don't know what's reasonable where your parents are concerned. If things have been all right for you, even if you screw up a bit and do something that might be construed as passive-aggressive, you just say "omg, I really didn't mean it that way - I'm sorry, I just wanted to pay for the trainers as dd has been asking for them and I didn't want you to have felt pressured" and your dad would go "Oh, no, I was happy to give her a gift" and THAT'S IT. If your parents are emotionally absent and that's what you know, this sort of thing is totally fraught and you don't often have a clue what's actually appropriate.

OP I too have a father who was really pretty awful throughout my childhood in terms of childhood emotional neglect. Since having dc, he has really tried. He falls down sometimes but he's also opened up a bit more about his childhood (grim). I think I am lucky to have got to know a better side of him even though it has been hard over the years, and he adores the dc. I'm not saying this is the same as your dad, but perhaps he really did want to treat your dd in a way he feels comfortable and that would explain his reaction towards the repayment. I imagine he doesn't know what a reasonable reaction is. (If he really is a deliberately abusive man then do ignore this.)

Sassanacs · 29/10/2019 15:48

@Jaggypinecone it's bloody tiresome isn't it.

We haven't been anywhere in the past couple of years due to really tight finances, mainly second chIld coming along at the same time as a house purchase and prolonged single income. And so it's not been great for the kids, we've had to sell our car and have no vices, no treats etc but we've managed to keep a roof over our heads and get through it together. Our kids are loved and they know it. It's tough but temporary.

My mum will go on and on about them being bored, no quality of life - really trying to lay the guilt on as if we don't feel it enough already or have created this situation to our detriment on purpose. She even went as far to say that I shouldn't have had my second child if things were going to be so hard! Years between my two DC due to fertility issues, 2 losses one of which was ectopic and required emergency surgery. (She didn't come to see me in hospital despite being in for a week, surprise surprise). But I know that my kids love is genuinely reciprocated whereas between me and her it was
More keeping up appearances. I played that game until I could leave home and it's been a safe distance relationship ever since.

She instead will ask me questions and 9/10 won't bother to listen to the answer. She'll pick up her phone or start baby talking to my youngest. So I'm left like a twat trying to talk to someone who just isn't interested.

If my mum asks me a question now and I see her pick up her phone before I answer then I'll say "do you actually want to know"?! Hmm

If I ever bothered to tell anyone about this dynamic they wouldn't see it. She's very good at playing Mrs Nice Guy Wink