To have such minimal contact with my parents?

[Euromillsplz]

There's never been much of a relationship, but the way my mum spoke to me last night has sparked this post. They make me feel like shit; a silly little girl. I'm 41.

A couple of weeks ago, they had dd9 on inset day- well my dad did which is almost unheard of, as mum had plans. Long story short- he bought her a pair of £48 trainers she'd been begging me for as she got soaked in a puddle (standard). He also took her for lunch in a nice restaurant, swimming etc. I was grateful (and impressed!)

That evening when I saw how much the trainers were, I put £50 in their account. Sent my dad a text saying thanks so much for having her, I'm paying you back for the trainers. He didn't reply.

Next time they picked dd up from school she came back with £2 change for me. His way of being passive aggressive and petty. Dd told me he said he wasn't happy with me putting the money in. Still no text though.

Had a rare (always uncomfortable and awkward) phone call with mum last night (almost never speak to dad- he actively showed no interest in me growing up - I was insignificant, not as good as others in the world so why bother trying or having goals when there's so much competition out there, etc etc- a very minor snapshot). Trying hard not to digress incoherently but because there's SO MUCH it's hard to get my point across without the extra detail, otherwise it sounds petty.

So last night- she makes her point as usual that it's a phone call (albeit rare) about dd (in case I get above my station and think she's showing any interest in me). About one of her activities- they insist on paying for most of her extracurricular things, which of course I appreciate.

I commented that i'd seen how expensive each session was and said I'd pay half, to which she replied in her VERY best patronising tone "oh stop going ON about it". I said I'm not going on about it, I've only said it once!- to which she stuttered something, then said "and that money you put back in our account, dad didn't want you to". I said I wasn't doing it to annoy anyone- DD had been begging me for those trainers and maybe she'd done the same to him. Oh she didn't like that- as if he'd be so weak as to give in to a child's demands (she didn't say as much but still).

The rest of the phone call was a standard exercise in trying to get off the phone. Afterwards I felt shit all evening. They'd put me back in my place- silly little girl who shouldn't try to make decisions for herself. Who dared to go against her parent's authority. Who deliberately tried to mess up their control over my daughter.

Because there's so much else, I probably haven't explained this very well and it might sound petty.

My parents are not in the least rich- they're just mortgage free and seem to be able to pay for things without a problem. My dad has been generous over the years and has been known to put 500 in my bank account for example- which has of course helped out endlessly. But theres no relationship. There's a lot of growing up stuff I can't really forgive. Constant - CONSTANT- negativity, put downs, unhidden resentment that he had children at all. Unemotional (apart from anger)- yet we were categorically NOT ALLOWED to show anger. Ever. Saying anything at all after he'd spoken was answering back, being impertinent.

With my daughter it's like he's suddenly found how to be a 'perfect parent' and my mother being the meek little enabler that she is (she's another story in herself) seems to think I should shut up and be grateful. Yes, I'm grateful for the financial help. Just not for the attitude that goes with it.

There's a lifetime of stuff I should probably leave out for fear of no-one reaching the end. I hope I've said enough to get across why I feel like shit over this.

OP said her DD was hassling her for the trainers.
The OP is obviously hyper aware of her Dads criticism. OP texted to thank him, he ignored her.
She was left hanging between is he angry for buying them.
He should have replied You're welcome I wanted my DGD to have them
But NO he had to leave OP hanging.
He is a prick.

OP I had a similar childhood, but left home early and was financially independent from a very young age. However, although I was a high wage earner before having dc, at the moment we now struggle financially. But I find it far, far better to struggle financially than to put up with the problems any sort of contact (other than civility on emails) or financial help would be bring.

It might not be that your parents want to be good grandparents to your dc - it might be that they were abusive to you, and being kind to your dd is a way of continuing the abuse. On the other hand, their relationship with your dd might be positive - whether or not it is would be down to your judgement.

If you paid back the money for the trainers it means you were not happy that he paid for the trainers on some level. So tell them not to buy her anything, if that is what you would prefer, and ask them to respect that. That would be perfectly reasonable of you, not passive aggressive at all. Also refuse all financial contributions if you want to. If you can cope financially it will probably feel like a burden has lifted. As to whether you want them to look after her or spend time with your dd away from you, irrespective of financial contributions, that is your call too.

I think the posters who are saying otherwise, that it is your problem, probably didn't suffer a childhood of emotional neglect! Not being cared about makes you feel as though you are nothing, worthless - it is a big thing and it is not surprising you still get upset now. It would be easier to get over it if you were away from it, if you felt that that was the best thing for your dc too.

@Blingandrings, @EssentialHummus, @C8H10N4O2, @frami, @MarshaBradyo
Sorry for the cluster tag- just didn't want to read & run without saying thank you .

There are lots of others too I haven't personally responded to, but all input is appreciated.

I've requested this be moved to relationships. Not sure I've done it right but we'll see!

"Clearly some pp have not bothered to read anything I've actually said- I DID text my dad to thank him and I DID say in that text that I wanted to out the money in. He ignored me.

I think there's a big difference between texting and saying, "I want to pay you back" and saying, "thank you, can I pay you back?". The second one gives him the option to say no. The first one doesn't.

Reading ALL your posts it's pretty clear you have a complicated relationship with your parents. And as a result you are over reacting to things that on the surface really are perfectly reasonable. It was definitely rude to just put the money back. Ditto to insist on paying half for the activities. Again, a better way to show you don't expect it would be to say something like, "Are you absolutely sure about this? It's very generous and I'd be happy to contribute".

You also said something (can't find the post now) about how you are appreciative and paying them back shows that appreciation. If you are appreciative and DO want to show them, use the money for something else for them - eg treat them to a meal out or send them cinema tickets or flowers/chocolates as a gift from you and DD to say thank you for all they do for her.

Also consider counselling. I am a big believer that even in healthy families some counselling at some point to process where our parents mess u is not a bad idea. It changed my perception of my parents and I had a much better relationship with them as a result.

@EmeraldShamrock thank you for reading properly, and for your understanding.

@tillytrotter1 Do you also ignore the parent of said DGD when they text to thank you.

I think the posters who are saying otherwise, that it is your problem, probably didn't suffer a childhood of emotional neglect

Yet despite this dreadful childhood, she's happy to use her parents for childcare?

@itmightbeamistaketohaveasteak (never a mistake!)- I agree, I don't think you can possibly understand if you've had a healthy upbringing. My mistake for posting in the wrong place.

@BlingLoving- what a minefield.

We clearly don't have that sort of relationship.

@formerbabe - I'm not entirely sure you understand. Like I said, a lot of backstory.

Why not just contribute to a thread you understand 🤷🏻‍♀️

@blingloving I think your suggestions are fine for a normal family dynamic, no one is perfect and I imagine my dc will criticise things i have done but I would very much hope we will have a good relationship when they are adults. But what the OP has described is not a normal family dynamic. It is complicated and you can't apply normal rules.

@formerbabe it really is a lot more complicated than that.

The thing is that OP's parents were clearly terrible parents. But instead of going NC she's still engaging with them. And they now seem to be trying, albeit in a somewhat ham fisted way, and she's still reacting the way she used to. Which is completely understandable. But the only way she's going to break this cycle is if SHE changes her behaviour/responses.

I've re read the thread over and over. I'm still non the wiser. Your dad went to the pub a lot is all I'm picking up and is a negative person.

You sound incredibly hard work.

And I still have no idea why you didn't seek alternative childcare on the inset day?

Oh and I can assure you I didn't have an easy upbringing by any means. They're dead now so I don't have this issue.
You're an adult now...take some responsibility for your own happiness and walk away if it will make you feel better and pay for childcare

just phone your dad op, text is easier to ignore

Yet despite this dreadful childhood, she's happy to use her parents for childcare
I think from OP's description as I can relate, it is not an obvious dreadful childhood, warm clothes, no beatings, in comparison to others it was heaven.
When you live with a highly critical controlling father abuse comes in other ways, as it is less obvious you put up with it. I do lots for my parents Dad still criticises constantly, DM had a unrecovered breakdown 30 years ago, she's a nervous wreck. I'm stronger now as DP is the total opposite. He is in my team.
OP I'd pull back till he respects you.

Those saying the OP’s behaviour is strange or buzzard: actually it’s not - it’s very common amongst those who have had the goal posts moved in them regularly, or couldn’t do anything rights, or had things like money and support used as a stick to beat them with at a later date, or had to wait in fear of what us coming next from the silent treatments. It’s not strange one little bit. I’ve had a mother (and enabler father) and two abusers over the years al- you never know WHAT your going to do wrong next.

This is my first post in order to answer you OP as I think you are getting a bit of a hard time. I have similar parents and was constantly wound up by them. Every little slight had a lot of meaning because of years of abuse and neglect. What may come across to one person from a healthy family dynamic, as perfectly normal, is full of nuance to someone from a dysfunctional background. I was always seething with resentment after speaking to my mother.

What helped was group therapy. What is interesting here is that you are getting a kind of group therapy in the responses to you. A range of people from different backgrounds are responding to the incident and the majority are saying that paying back the money is passive aggressive or rude - and they are right, it is.

The problem, and others have pointed it out, is that you are deeply enmeshed in a toxic dynamic with your parents. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what they've done and how you've responded in this particular incident. What matters is your mental health going forward and how to protect yourself from many more of these incidents. I can clearly see how much this is affecting you and it had the same effect on me.

I would go to group therapy ranting about something my mother did (for example, she broke her leg and I went to stay to help out. She asked me to go shopping but gave her card and pin to my younger sister and insisted she go with me because she couldn't trust me with her details). So there I was ranting about how my mother treats me and the group are just staring at me. I can hear myself and hear how much it is affecting me and it was then that it struck me how deeply caught up in all this I was and I realised how sick it all was.

I went very low contact with my mother and am now no contact with her. My situation is different because I don't have children but I realised that I had to make some very hard decisions in order to protect myself.

I'm seeing the response I had in group therapy here. People are looking at this incident and, pointing out that your reaction is not normal. It isn't on the surface but, others can't see what you have put up with over the years.

It's a very gradual process but you are going to have to start working on disentangling yourself for the good of your mental health. Take a step back, breathe, journal. Work on some good boundary techniques - I was a doormat and how people treated me depended on how kind they were.

As others have pointed out, you need to stop taking money from your parents. I know it's hard but there it is; none of this is easy. You are going to have to face the fact, and it's hard, that your parents are not going to change; this is it. Once you've accepted that, then you need to find a way forward that protects yourself as all this turmoil is having a detrimental effect on you and you can't continue like this.

Be kind to yourself, eat well, exercise, meditate, hydrate. Work on some good boundary techniques and learn some stock responses. They aren't going to change but you can change how you react to them. You can learn how to distance yourself, maintain a relationship and still give them access to your daughter but, you have to let go of the fantasy that your relationship is going to get better and you'll have the parents you need - that isn't going to happen.

@formerbabe of course with a complete lack of insight, empathy or understanding of CEN, you're bound to not get it. I understand that. I don't have the time or space to write everything down, but luckily some people don't need an entire 40 year history to have some insight.

As I said- if it's puzzling you that much, leave it there.

To tell them it is to late to play doting parent's.
He had his chance to be your parent he drank it.

You are determined not to see the other side of this OP. I'm not sure you've grown up properly, which is again common in dcs from abusive families but something you will need help from.

@cupcaske123 What a fantastic post.
Lots of great advice.

help *with

Euromillspiz, there’s so much I could say on this topic, the troubles we’ve had with family. My husband and I are now 60, and learnt to leave ‘ upper ‘ families behind, by the time we were 40. Sometimes, things just never work, and you have to put your children first, and reduce any effects on them. We don’t need to put up with difficult people, even if they’re our family. All difficult people are someone’s family! I would suggest, if they want to give presents to your daughter, let them and accept graciously, and leave it at that. You can explain to her, that you and granny and grandad don’t really have the best relationship, and she’ll understand more as she gets older. You don’t however, want to stop her seeing her grandparents if she wants to. Our children decided they didn’t want to see theirs, as they could see the problems as they got older, for themselves. Don’t punish yourself over this, parents have the responsibility to their children, not the other way round. You be the best mum you can be, I’m sure your daughter will reap the benefits, and there’s no reason to think not having grandparents in her life will be detrimental in any way, my children, all in their thirties now, are fine. Now we are trying to be good grandparents! All the best to you🤗