To have such minimal contact with my parents?

[Euromillsplz]

There's never been much of a relationship, but the way my mum spoke to me last night has sparked this post. They make me feel like shit; a silly little girl. I'm 41.

A couple of weeks ago, they had dd9 on inset day- well my dad did which is almost unheard of, as mum had plans. Long story short- he bought her a pair of £48 trainers she'd been begging me for as she got soaked in a puddle (standard). He also took her for lunch in a nice restaurant, swimming etc. I was grateful (and impressed!)

That evening when I saw how much the trainers were, I put £50 in their account. Sent my dad a text saying thanks so much for having her, I'm paying you back for the trainers. He didn't reply.

Next time they picked dd up from school she came back with £2 change for me. His way of being passive aggressive and petty. Dd told me he said he wasn't happy with me putting the money in. Still no text though.

Had a rare (always uncomfortable and awkward) phone call with mum last night (almost never speak to dad- he actively showed no interest in me growing up - I was insignificant, not as good as others in the world so why bother trying or having goals when there's so much competition out there, etc etc- a very minor snapshot). Trying hard not to digress incoherently but because there's SO MUCH it's hard to get my point across without the extra detail, otherwise it sounds petty.

So last night- she makes her point as usual that it's a phone call (albeit rare) about dd (in case I get above my station and think she's showing any interest in me). About one of her activities- they insist on paying for most of her extracurricular things, which of course I appreciate.

I commented that i'd seen how expensive each session was and said I'd pay half, to which she replied in her VERY best patronising tone "oh stop going ON about it". I said I'm not going on about it, I've only said it once!- to which she stuttered something, then said "and that money you put back in our account, dad didn't want you to". I said I wasn't doing it to annoy anyone- DD had been begging me for those trainers and maybe she'd done the same to him. Oh she didn't like that- as if he'd be so weak as to give in to a child's demands (she didn't say as much but still).

The rest of the phone call was a standard exercise in trying to get off the phone. Afterwards I felt shit all evening. They'd put me back in my place- silly little girl who shouldn't try to make decisions for herself. Who dared to go against her parent's authority. Who deliberately tried to mess up their control over my daughter.

Because there's so much else, I probably haven't explained this very well and it might sound petty.

My parents are not in the least rich- they're just mortgage free and seem to be able to pay for things without a problem. My dad has been generous over the years and has been known to put 500 in my bank account for example- which has of course helped out endlessly. But theres no relationship. There's a lot of growing up stuff I can't really forgive. Constant - CONSTANT- negativity, put downs, unhidden resentment that he had children at all. Unemotional (apart from anger)- yet we were categorically NOT ALLOWED to show anger. Ever. Saying anything at all after he'd spoken was answering back, being impertinent.

With my daughter it's like he's suddenly found how to be a 'perfect parent' and my mother being the meek little enabler that she is (she's another story in herself) seems to think I should shut up and be grateful. Yes, I'm grateful for the financial help. Just not for the attitude that goes with it.

There's a lifetime of stuff I should probably leave out for fear of no-one reaching the end. I hope I've said enough to get across why I feel like shit over this.

It sounds like they show love through money - they are very emotionally closed so can't show it that way - so by you paying them back it's like a rejection of their love.

I'm glad you recognise it's healthy for children to show all emotions despite your upbringing, your daughter will really benefit.

Whether you are willing to forgive your DP is up to you, but it sounds like they aren't repeating the same mistakes with your DD in terms of negativity, anger etc. If they start to I'd definitely keep my distance. I imagine that might even make you feel resentful, that they didn't show you the kindness they show your DD?

You need the stately homes thread OP. They were awful to you growing up and now want an active part in your life and with your dd. You've got lots of unprocessed emotions and thoughts from how they treated you growing up. Do you speak to them/ see them the amount you want to? Maybe you need some space from them to work out how you feel and what you want. It sounds like everything works on their terms and you feel resentful because the way they've treated you all your life has just been brushed under the carpet at your expense.

You have lots of issues, but they want to treat your dd, let them do what they want to do. If my mum bought shoes (unless I asked her to) I wouldn't pay her back (similar circumstances)

YANBU to minimise contact. I completely understand (I think!). My mum would insist on paying for things so she could show off about how much ‘help’ they’d given me. Would bring it up in front of people many years later how they’d paid for the washing machine (err, no, that one packed up years ago, I’ve bought my own one now). Made me feel so useless, as if it weren’t for them I’d have been homeless with nothing.

I apologise if this sounds harsh, but from his point of view, he’s treated his granddaughter to something special that she really wanted. He will have enjoyed giving the treat. And you’ve essentially stepped in to take that from him and arguably thrown it back in his face. I’d be pissed off too if someone did that to me! Transferring the money, without at least some thanks and discussion about whether you could pay it back, was rather rude.

Hi OP, sounds similar to my parents. I didn't have a conversation of any sort with my father all his life - he died last year aged 93. I feel a bit of regret but genuinely no resentment because he/they had their own issues, especially him. He (for whatever reason) found it much easier to be a grandfather than to be a father, and I can imagine him making a similar gesture but not being able (quite literally) to communicate about it directly. He would, when I was younger, say to my DM "what is Lobster doing today?" and my DM would say to me (in the same room) "your father wants to know what you are doing today".

Expecting people to change suddenly is like expecting them to be fluent in another language - they can't do it.

They are almost certainly aware they have a shit relationship with you and are trying to make it up to your dd by spending money on her. Sometimes when this happens the child in you can be resentful that you didn't get the same level of interest growing up.

Huge backstory obviously but I wouldn’t have transferred the money either. He clearly wanted to treat her and by transferring the money you took that “treat” aspect away from him.

I think you see the whole “let me pay for my share” stuff as demonstrating to them that you’re an adult and don’t need them - but they find that hurtful. You’re just going to end up clashing more and more unless you can just learn to say thanks. It depends if you want to try to build bridges or not.

It all sounds excruciatingly passive aggressive and like you need to attend counselling to discuss your issues over how you were parented. There are very few perfect parents, it's awful that you feel you were treated so badly, but I think with some work there could be new ways of approaching this. Having said that I have a friend who has very strange, passive aggressive parents and its caused her untold issues. She has no children yet, but I can only imagine the difficulties and tension that will arrive when she does...

To answer pp who have said I should have just said tha k you and asked how much he wanted- I DID text to say thank you very much BEFORE I put the money back in, and also said that I'd put the money in because they cost so much. He didn't reply. At all. Still hasn't.

But somehow I'm bad for doing this 🤷🏻‍♀️

Also- I don't have a problem or resent them for paying for things. It's the feeling that they dont allow me to make a payment if I want to- basically to show my appreciation that they pay for a lot.

I sympathise with you,but I think you didnt need to put cash into DF account really. You seem angry at your childhood ,and probably with good reason by the sounds of things .DF possibly wanting to make things up to you by sending some money /treating your DD.Do you want to heal things with him ? Counselling as stated above ,would be a good suggestion I think .Parenting is difficult and sometimes parents get it wrong, and will have an easier time with GC

I WASN'T pissed off about the trainers

I didn't mean that, I meant you're pissed off after the sequence of events/phone call after transferring the money.

Insert frustrated/upset instead of pissed off. Bad choice of wording on my part.

Also this jumped out at me: Who dared to go against her parent's authority. Who deliberately tried to mess up their control over my daughter

There's a lot of assumption and projecting in your post. 'DM said X so I know she meant Y' etc. Sometimes we can be wrong and X just meant X.

I think the PPs advice of seeking help and counselling is a really good idea, OP.

It's not showing appreciation though is it, because they don't want you to do it.

OP, I get it. I don’t think it was passive aggressive, that wouldn’t have occurred to me that it was, and I’m surprised people are saying that. I think a lot of people commenting here must have had nice, normal, loving parents, and just don’t understand.

However, could you put a stop to them paying for your daughter’s activities? It might help you feel like you’re lessening their control

You didn’t ask if he wanted the money though, you just did it. That’s where you’ve upset him. If you asked he’d have probably said it was a treat and you could have said thanks and that would be it.

I wouldn't have just put the £50 in my dad's account. I would have telephoned him and thanked him for buying the trainer's when DD's footwear was wet and for looking after her and taking her to lunch and swimming. I would have offered to pay (as she'd been asking you for them) but would have played it by ear on whether to let him buy them as a gift.
I don't think your behaviour was appropriate.

I also don't see anything wrong in your mum telling you the telephone call was about DD. It sounds like she was just stating a fact. You appear extremely over-sensitive in stating "(in case I get above my station and think she's showing any interest in me)."
Perhaps you need some therapy to come to terms with your childhood. It seems as if your dad is trying hard to be a good GF to your DD.

OP get this moved to relationships and join us on Stately Homes, you'll get flamed here by folk with absolutely no idea about your family dynamic. Of course YANBU

I think you were UR to pay trainers back.

I also understand how you feel about shit parents being good grandparents. I really do. My mother was a shit mum, I ended up in foster care because of her emotional abuse. But she's an alright grandparent to my DC. I don't have a close relationship with her, and she's not got a really really close relationship with my DC but she sees them quite regularly, they like her and they enjoy her company - she now does perfect parent shit like baking and walks with them -

She has also helped me out with childcare when I've not been able to take time off for inset days ect. I see it as she helps me (not very often, I ask her for baby sitting twice a year max) and I help her by facilitating her having a relationship with her grandchildren.

I feel my DC benefit from having her in their lives. I believe my mother has regrets about how she treated me and I did recieve an apology a few years ago. My mothers a bit of bitch but shes lovely to my DC. The more people in their lives who care about them the better for them imo. Your father OP seems to care about his grandchild, I'd try and separate your feelings towards him because of your childhood from your DCs feelings towards him. Just because he's a twat to you doesn't mean your dd wont benefit from his relationship to her.

OP I think it's very hard for people to understand if they haven't been there with a relationship like this. People see it as passive aggressive but I have a similar relationship with my dp (excluding the relationship with the GC, I am not the golden child so they don't make a lot of effort with my dc when no one is looking)

I grew up financially stable but by god that came with a huge emotional price. I would have the same that in my younger years they would put money into my account but it was used as a way to show I wasn't coping and how irresponsible I was when I hadn't asked for it.

I wised up and stopped accepting things.

Everything that was offered came at a price and sometimes held over me for years on end , or pulled at the last minute so in my twenties I just stopped with anything.

It's hard for others to see how insidious it is. My dm goes through stages of playing silly buggers , going to great effort to remind me how little I matter or she cares. Then she attempts to love bomb me.

Silly things like the fact I used to be a very senior manager in care services earning a lot of money with a lot of responsibility and she would tell people in front of me she vaguely thinks I do a few hours as a carer on a weekend (I hasten to add there is absolutely nothing wrong with being a carer but she knew exactly what I did and was doing it deliberately )

Df is almost textbook to yours, permanently negative and if I try to speak or say anything that is not what he wants me to will pull a horrendously nasty face and shut me down.

Most people never get it , they didn't hit me or starve me but by god hey did a number on my psyche, dsis has severe mental health issues and it's without a doubt that she stayed near them when I moved away and is completely controlled by them.

So I don't think yabu at all but most people will, unless you have experienced this its hard to understand.

I joke that I knew dp was the one for me when he was the first to meet my parents and when we left looked at me and said "I am so sorry Shiny, what truly awful people"

Up until then most people started to see it a couple of years into knowing me.

Yanbu I would do the same , I've learnt now that the price for anything like this is not worth it. People on MN tend to vocalise that someones surface intentions (what they say they are rather than what they are) should always be allowed for. In reality some of us have parents that deliberately mess with their heads and know they are doing it. It's control and it's using their child to feel superior.

Sorry a bit of an essay but please don't let them or MN gaslight you that you are being MEeeaaaannnn.

It is hard for me to judge this situation objectively as my own parents wouldn't dream of taking my dds out for the day, let alone giving me money towards activities and shoes! Honestly OP you need to let this go, try and heal yourself and let dd have a relationship with them without it being about you.

Fizzypoo your post made me smile.

Sorry to not namecheck everyone, but thanks for your responses. They're all appreciated (especially the more empathetic ones!).

@NataliaOsipova I DID say thank you. I DID talk about putting the money back in. I was IGNORED. If you think that's rude of me, so be it. Or just read the post properly.

I do understand what people are saying about rejecting the treat for his granddaughter. That's not something I would consciously do. Like I said, I've always felt awkward about people.paying for things that I feel I should pay for. Sue me.

I understand the well meaning comments about separate relationships with GC but it's not true.

my df was the perfect grandparent to my DN, couldn't be more wonderful, right up until she became a teenager , and had her own opinions. Then exactly the same behaviour started. It was delayed granted but ultimately my dp are who they are and it was always going to happen.

Sadly history repeats itself and my dnephew saw it and left like I did and D niece stayed and is going the same way my dsis did.

Op manage this how you need to .

I understand the well meaning comments about separate relationships with GC but it's not true

Of course it can be true.

Oh God, @Shinyletsbebadguys THANK YOU. I'm sorry you out up with such a lot of awful crap. I'd never say my parents were that bad, but your understanding and empathy are so appreciated (I haven't read all posts yet and I will reply properly to others later). Yes- the nasty facial expression- I'm with you.

Thanks again for your understanding.