To have such minimal contact with my parents?

[Euromillsplz]

There's never been much of a relationship, but the way my mum spoke to me last night has sparked this post. They make me feel like shit; a silly little girl. I'm 41.

A couple of weeks ago, they had dd9 on inset day- well my dad did which is almost unheard of, as mum had plans. Long story short- he bought her a pair of £48 trainers she'd been begging me for as she got soaked in a puddle (standard). He also took her for lunch in a nice restaurant, swimming etc. I was grateful (and impressed!)

That evening when I saw how much the trainers were, I put £50 in their account. Sent my dad a text saying thanks so much for having her, I'm paying you back for the trainers. He didn't reply.

Next time they picked dd up from school she came back with £2 change for me. His way of being passive aggressive and petty. Dd told me he said he wasn't happy with me putting the money in. Still no text though.

Had a rare (always uncomfortable and awkward) phone call with mum last night (almost never speak to dad- he actively showed no interest in me growing up - I was insignificant, not as good as others in the world so why bother trying or having goals when there's so much competition out there, etc etc- a very minor snapshot). Trying hard not to digress incoherently but because there's SO MUCH it's hard to get my point across without the extra detail, otherwise it sounds petty.

So last night- she makes her point as usual that it's a phone call (albeit rare) about dd (in case I get above my station and think she's showing any interest in me). About one of her activities- they insist on paying for most of her extracurricular things, which of course I appreciate.

I commented that i'd seen how expensive each session was and said I'd pay half, to which she replied in her VERY best patronising tone "oh stop going ON about it". I said I'm not going on about it, I've only said it once!- to which she stuttered something, then said "and that money you put back in our account, dad didn't want you to". I said I wasn't doing it to annoy anyone- DD had been begging me for those trainers and maybe she'd done the same to him. Oh she didn't like that- as if he'd be so weak as to give in to a child's demands (she didn't say as much but still).

The rest of the phone call was a standard exercise in trying to get off the phone. Afterwards I felt shit all evening. They'd put me back in my place- silly little girl who shouldn't try to make decisions for herself. Who dared to go against her parent's authority. Who deliberately tried to mess up their control over my daughter.

Because there's so much else, I probably haven't explained this very well and it might sound petty.

My parents are not in the least rich- they're just mortgage free and seem to be able to pay for things without a problem. My dad has been generous over the years and has been known to put 500 in my bank account for example- which has of course helped out endlessly. But theres no relationship. There's a lot of growing up stuff I can't really forgive. Constant - CONSTANT- negativity, put downs, unhidden resentment that he had children at all. Unemotional (apart from anger)- yet we were categorically NOT ALLOWED to show anger. Ever. Saying anything at all after he'd spoken was answering back, being impertinent.

With my daughter it's like he's suddenly found how to be a 'perfect parent' and my mother being the meek little enabler that she is (she's another story in herself) seems to think I should shut up and be grateful. Yes, I'm grateful for the financial help. Just not for the attitude that goes with it.

There's a lifetime of stuff I should probably leave out for fear of no-one reaching the end. I hope I've said enough to get across why I feel like shit over this.

I have a similar dynamic with my parents. I found this book helpful www.amazon.co.uk/Parents-Overcoming-Hurtful-Legacy-Reclaiming/dp/0553814826/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=toxic+parents&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1572340245&sr=8-1. You should have offered to pay for the shoes rather than just giving the money back. Unfortunately on paper YABU but I get it. You have to learn to drop the rope and not engage in conflict I'm afraid. x

It's unfortunate but if the money and childcare come with unpleasant strings attached, then it's probably best to manage without either of them.

Not read all the threads but your post struck a chord with me. Whilst I think you were BU in paying the money back without specifically asking first if your Dad wanted the money back, the backstory to all of this is what is more important. This incident is just a trigger for all of that.

I've just read a couple of books on 'childhood emotional neglect'. It was a concept I'd never heard of but reading about it has put words to what I've felt for most of my life. Feeling like I never fit in, that my emotions and thoughts are unvalidated, trying to people please instead of looking after myself. It's taken me 50 years to get it and it stems from my mother who was perfectly fine to me as a mum, fed, clothed, watered etc. but she never asked me a meaningful question about myself or my life, ever. Lots of little put downs which at the time I never thought much of but as I have reached certain milestones with my own kids I have realised what was missing from my own childhood. On the face of it mine sounds idyllic - lots of freedom etc. but never shown how to manage my emotions. My mum is still alive and though comes across as a nice old lady, which she is, she still asks nothing of my life but will happily regale me with the minutae of hers (which amounts to not much). As the only daughter, just like she was, this is a legacy passed down through the generations. It was the example set to her by her own mother. So whilst not her fault, I still have trouble forgiving her. She doesn't make the same demands of my brothers because they are male. She'll listen to their advice but not mine. I'd advise you to read up on this and perhaps go and see a counsellor. Keep your distance and remain polite but communicative so your needs are met.

Just going back to the trainers as a scenario ..... if the communication with your Dad had been a bit different ........ 'thank you so much for the trainers. DD is delighted with them as she had been pestering me for ages. They are quite expensive, do you want anything for them?'

So you've acknowledged his kind deed, thanked him for it, offered to pay but firmly the ball is now in his court to say no it's a treat. Your conscience would have been clear and he would have felt acknowledged. It's hard to train yourself. I kind of treat my mum like any other elderly person, I'm helpful but keep a boundary there. It's the only way I can cope. Good luck!

BTW the books I read were by Dr Jonice Webb - Running on Empty.

In a normal family dynamic the OP’s parents would have said ‘oh goodness, you didn’t have to pay us back, we love treating our DD!’ And the OP would have said ‘nonsense! Use it to buy yourselves a treat then! I appreciate everything you do for is!’

The OP has explained the dynamic in her family, one where she feels small and powerless. She’s refunded some money and is being punished for it? How the hell is that normal?

The money part of this is clouding the issue, it’s about power and control and who exercises it.

Eventually I snapped and now haven't had contact with them for 4 years and I'm so much happier for it

Do they still have contact with your dd?

No. DD is an adult and has been no contact with them longer than me. She didn't have the same level of FOG seeing as she didn't grow up living with them like I did. Her issue was that they refused to treat her like an adult instead of a 5 year old little girl.

I feel so much hurt and confusion in your posts OP. I think you could really benefit from a good counsellor. Perhaps a modality like Transactional Analysis could give you some helpful insight and support you in making the changes in being in relationship with your parents.

Once again, thanks for all the replies. Yes, even the ones telling me I'm being unreasonable and if you choose to read my posts properly- I HAVE said I hear what people are saying about denying a gift to his grandchild and that's never how I'd intended it.

I'd appreciate if those complaining about not being agreed with/being ignored would actually read my posts properly.

It's hard to reply to every single person individually. Clearly some pp have not bothered to read anything I've actually said- I DID text my dad to thank him and I DID say in that text that I wanted to out the money in. He ignored me.

I didn't mention this in the original post but I saw him in person when I picked her up and she was wearing the new trainers - I profusely thanked him in person then as well.

This isnt about trainers or money however, and thankfully a lot of you get that.

Could someone please tell me how to transfer this to relationships? Thanks in advance

*What I took from this post is

1. you hate them
2. they don't know how to communicate and are cold people
3. they are trying really hard with your DD
4. they like to spoil her, but you make it clear you don't like it when they do* That may be your perception. I get it OP my dad was a shit parent. I dont think you hate them.
5. they let you down.
6. they brought you up by letting you down, you see them as doting grandparents and it is confusing.
7. They are now trying to take over from your role with DD. IMO your father is trying to control you. May I ask to the outside worlds a kid did he act like a good Dad. Control comes in lots of ways, your instincts are screaming. Btw I'd do the same with the trainer money it wasn't PA it was considerate. Listen to your gut take control. By being so nice to DD is undermining your childhood feelings, almost like saying we are great parents it is all in your head.

Thanks @Jaggypinecone- I have actually quite recently come across that online and like you, I recognised a lot of those traits in myself. Thanks for your comments

*@NataliaOsipova I DID say thank you. I DID talk about putting the money back in. I was IGNORED. If you think that's rude of me, so be it. Or just read the post properly.

I do understand what people are saying about rejecting the treat for his granddaughter. That's not something I would consciously do. Like I said, I've always felt awkward about people.paying for things that I feel I should pay for. Sue me.*
But you mentioned putting the money back in after you had done it. And I get that you don't feel comfortable accepting gifts. But you've come on here to ask if you are being unreasonable and most people have said yes you are. This is probably because you've grown up with the parents you've had.
Most people with good parents would not have sent the money but rather accepted the gift.
I think maybe counseling would help but also think about breaking the cycle and behaving in a more appropriate way, eg accept gifts, even if you don't feel your parents act appropriately.

Get this transferred to the Stately Homes thread it's the place to go with parents like yours. I know I have problems with mine and find it a great source of help. People with normal loving families do not understand how a lifetime of digs and living on egg shells gets to you.

Ask hq to move it.

Thank you @EmeraldShamrock
To be honest, I don't have many memories of him being a father at all. He was usually in the pub in the evenings.

I really feel for you it is so hard to untangle this stuff. Nigh on impossible because your ability to do so was shaped so heavily as a child. There’s no foundation to really see what is going on. This is the first step though to reformulating how you do feel.

To those who simply dont get it and enjoy kicking someone when they're down- learning curve for me, maybe I've posted on the wrong thread/word it badly

You might be best asking for the thread to be moved to a more specific topic - possibly relationships. Also have a look at the stately homes threads.

One of the defining features of the dysfunctional and controlling relationships you describe is that individual incidents never sound that big. Its the accumulation of small grit which grinds you down.

So in a normal healthy relationship, buying the trainers would result in "Dad let me reimburse you for the trainers, they were expensive" "no don't worry its nice to treat my DGC" with maybe a little thank you note or similar depending on how your family does stuff. I suspect that is the context many posters come from and so just refunding the money seems odd.

In your case its part of a life long pattern of behaviour which grinds you down. I agree that the suggestion to speak to someone about your own childhood makes sense. Regarding payments for activities, if you can do without their contribution it might be better to do so but whose idea were these activities anyway if they are very expensive?

I understand why you did it. It’s kind of saying ‘I’m an adult, I don’t need you to pay for my daughters stuff’. It’s a sort of request for respect . However I understand why they were offended.
I am kind of the opposite to you. My parents were like yours. My mother is a rich widow and I think if she pays for things for my children now occasionally that’s all to the good. She’s never helped me, either emotionally practically or financially. Neither did my father. So if my children can benefit in some way it feels like a pay back. Especially when she is unable to relate to them or offer any sort of meaningful relationship.
Be glad for your daughter, let them pay and get some good therapy for yourself. Find a way to help yourself heal. They will never change and sadly will never be able to give you what you need emotionally.

One of the defining features of the dysfunctional and controlling relationships you describe is that individual incidents never sound that big. Its the accumulation of small grit which grinds you down.

Yup. I have the same OP. And then, of course, if you react to any of these incidents you look like the unreasonable one, and they have yet more reason to say "Oh, there she goes again, so ungrateful/unpleasant/crazy/whatever".

I also have the same. A recent arguement with my mother was the last straw. The straw that broke the camel’s back. I’m sure the rest of the family think I’m being unreasonable apart from OH who was there. It’s the drip , drip drip until you are drowning.

Thank you @Herocomplex

Hi Op I just think the little bit that you are missing, is that sending money back is an insult. The same as sending a present back.

If my mother bought my daughter shoes, and I put the money into my mother's account.

I would see that it would tell her:

You shouldn't have done that,
We don't want it from you - now i have paid for it myself
Your gesture was unappreciated
Only I can but my daughter things

Why did you thank him so profusely if you intended to pay him back?

It is also a slightly strange behaviour from you, that when your parent buys your daughter things - you think that you have to automatically pay them back.

They offered to pay, so why do that?
Is it that you are trying to please them or something?

If someone else bought your daughter a present, would you send the money back to them?

@Euromillsplz mine too. At least 5 nights in the pub, work during the day, controlling and angry at home.
I've the passive mother too.
Just because they helped with you with 500 doesn't mean you should put up with it.
I'd help my DC in a flash with money.
It is the circle of life.
My dad adores my DD he is mean to my DS.
My Bro hates him. Since I've had DS I understand now why Bro has issues, he was highly criticised as DC being a boy.
Find the strength to stand your ground, my Dad knows I am in control of my DC now.

We often buy shoes for our grandchildren, I'd be very annoyed if their parents felt the need to repay us! Good on your father for sending you the change!