But we took you to Stately Homes" October 2019 onwards thread

[toomuchtooold]

It's October 2019, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
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Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

they do not take any responsibility for their actions, so fail to see how they could have hurt us.

Spot on, Chloechloe. They have no empathy. If they did, they would not behave as they do.

We somehow ended up with their share as well as our own. That's why we tie ourselves up in knots and second-guess ourselves trying to spare them the hurt we imagine they would feel (but don't) while heaping even more hot coals on our own heads in the process.

I know a man just like you detail FreshStart, he has seven, or more, children by different mothers over a, perhaps, 15-year period, and he still flits between different women with children/grandchildren. He's rather close to my family, in hierarchy not presence.

He's reached out a couple of times, at the behest of his partner making him feel guilty. What we learned is this man has no shame, no responsibility, no empathy, no respect and no emotion towards his children. No doubt he conceived them with the best of intentions but is a weak man with zero fucks to give.

The meetings/contact to satisfy his partner, nothing doing himself.

Thanks all for your advice regarding my friend, I sent her a message last night really saying that I think in a sense she has her closure, knowing before he dies that his only reason for contacting her is because he had to, or actually more tgan likely because his wife is pushing it so she's not left in a difficult financial position when he dies, which is very hurtful but the truth as he could have contacted her at any point before now. I'm hoping she won't hate me for saying it! The positive is she'll always have a higher level of empathy with how her adopted daughter feels at difficult times, having had an amazing step-dad who raised her and DSis as his own and now her realisation that death can still bring intense emotion when its your biological parent, even when you don't know them.

We somehow ended up with their share as well as our own. That's why we tie ourselves up in knots and second-guess ourselves trying to spare them the hurt we imagine they would feel (but don't) while heaping even more hot coals on our own heads in the process.

This is so perfectly put.

Hi all. I am so relieved I found this thread as I've just told my mother that I want limited contact with her and am worrying whether I did the right thing.

I had a miserable childhood. There was no emotional attachment or love at all. There was lots of fury interspersed with periods of silence. And as I got older both parents did things that were just cruel or to try to humiliate me. I am still terrified of my mother, coupled with feelings of guilt (which I know I shouldn't have). But I did get taken to stately homes for real.

Her reaction: "I'm so hurt." "What's brought this on?" and "Your behaviour was so bad that at one point we were thinking of cutting you out of your will."

I've going to read some more before posting again. But it's such a relief to find others who have gone through similar.

I feel a bit empty, guilty (of course) and sad at the moment. But I'm hoping that over time I will find relief and peace with myself.

Thank you all for sharing your stories. It helps so much.

Hi @yellowlemon

It sounds like you’ve done the right thing for now so you can get some headspace. It’s important to bear in mind LC and NC are not done to punish anyone, it’s done because contact is causing you such anguish that you need to break the cycle. No need to think about other people’s emotional responses at the moment, just concentrate on getting your thoughts in order.

Welcome 💐

Thank you @herocomplex

I think that point about not punishing her is really helpful. Whenever I phoned her I would feel anxious for days afterwards. And physical contact was just so draining and exhausting. Visiting her was like me going back to being a child.

The ironic thing is that she obviously doesn't like me so if I was anyone else but her daughter she wouldn't have anything to do with me.

But she'll be hurting and feeling sorry for herself because she's lost the control she had over me. She only ever saw me as an extension of herself so by cutting myself off from her it's like she's literally lost a part of herself.

There are so many brave and strong people on here. I guess I should be feeling strong because this is something I should have done years ago and it took a lot of courage to do it. But I'm not really feeling it right now.

Do you have any siblings @yellowlemon? A partner? Try and do nice things for yourself, and when the negativity feels overwhelming come here and just write it down.

Sometimes I’m strong, sometimes I’m definitely not! But deciding what behaviours I’ll accept from people in my life helps enormously.

That's a really interesting way to put it, @Herocomplex. I will try to change the way I'm thinking about things, too.

I've just blanked my mother right now, no explanation. I can't get into it with her, I have no emotional reserves left.

I'm actually really struggling to see her as am emotionally abusive parent, even though the evidence is right there. She ignores my boundaries, gets defensive and/or withdraws affection if I don't behave in the "right" way and is unkind to my DC. If anyone else behaved this way, they wouldn't get a second chance! Why do I keep giving her more chances? (Rhetorical question: I know it's because I've been trained to do so, that this is what love is, etc)

When I’m struggling @MoreNiceCereal I remind myself that I’m not in touch with my parents at the moment, and don’t think too far ahead. If it feels really overwhelming it helps to just think about today. Tomorrow will take care of itself when I get to it.

Thanks. I'll try it.

Hi Yellowlemon. Expect it to hurt a lot, expect to feel incredibly sad. I still do most days 4 months into NC - but that's most days now rather than everyday as it was a few weeks ago. It is still preferable to the anxiety I felt whenever I had contact with him, and I feel like I have more self-respect. I am not doing it to punish him but to protect myself, and even more importantly my DCs. Keep posting, it helps. Accept that you will always feel some sadness, its not what anyone really wants, to realise that a relationship with one or both of your own parents isn't healthy to the point of stopping it, but it's necessary sometimes.

Hello, me dropping in again.

On Saturday I went out on a day trip with a group of girls to a large UK city, and ever since Ive felt really sad thinking this is how my life could have been had I not been so enmeshed with my DM and doing everything with her. Im in my 30's and have never done anything like that without her until now. How sad is that?

It was like this snapshot of what could have been. It was fun, I realise now that I never enjoyed spending time with my mum. I always feel responsible for her when Im with her, I cant relax or enjoy myself because im worried about her.

Really I feel that she's ruined my life.

@Herocomplex I have one sister who lives abroad but she was the golden child and is a carbon copy of our mother. Right down to her job and how she is brining up her kids. She actually got banned from Mumsnet a few years ago because of the way she spoke to new mums who were struggling with their babies.

And no partner, but lots of good friends. And there is one who I think I will be able to share this with as she has been through something similar with a relative.

@FreshStart01Thank you for your kind words. I need to keep focussing on the feeling that I won't have to deal with the dreadful anxiety and sometimes anger that I get from being in contact with her. I can cope with the sadness. I'm going to make sure I do lots of nice things for myself over the next couple of weeks.

Hi Yellow:)
she obviously doesn't like me
she doesnt need to like you for you to be useful to her, you are a pawn in the game, she moves you into the bad/wrong person position because having you there helps her to frame herself as the good/right person.
As said, you're not punishing her you are protecting yourself from her!

@Ulterego Wow - that's such an insightful thing you've said. I could never understand why she was so bothered about wanting to see me. Especially because when I went to visit her she literally wouldn't speak to me for the whole time I was there.

All this is starting to make me see things a lot more clearly and feel better. Thank you so much.

When you visit her you pay her attention, she responds by ignoring you this reinforces what she feels is the correct balance of power, you make a pilgrimage to her, you put yourself out but she barely troubles herself to notice you, she is the queen you are a mere minion
that's why she wants and needs you to visit, so that she gets that good feeling she gets when the world is arranged to flatter her

@Ulterego I love how you've framed that. She always 'ruled' over me. I was either allowed to do things or not allowed to do things. I just did as I was told.

I never thought of my mother as a narcissist as she's a hollow woman with no charm. But I look at certain things she did like giving herself over the top titles for bits of voluntary work she did, sitting on every committee going (PTA, church stuff) until she fell out with everyone, assuming all men fancied her (they didn't), generally looking down her nose at everyone, and of course the way she treated me, I think she probably is.

I think I got a kind of 'queenly' vibe about her from reading your post Yellow
you says she's not charismatic and that tends to be seen as a narc trait, but there are various way of categorizing personality types, she sounds grandiose, perhaps to the extent of 'delusions of grandeur'
it's horrid when you feel scared and intimidated by your parents :(

What's funny is that she speaks like she's the queen, even though she grew up in the West Country. All her siblings have still got a bit of their lovely West Country accent - but not her.

I think delusions of grandeur are about right. There are some things that she claims - like she was wholly responsible for a certain celebrity's career - that are so outlandish they're almost laughable.

I think delusions of grandeur are about right. There are some things that she claims - like she was wholly responsible for a certain celebrity's career - that are so outlandish they're almost laughable.

Some people are so uncomfortable in their own skin they feel the need to elevate themselves to a position of power, control, dominance and authority, that certainly seems to be the case here. Does she have any siblings? Have they been more successful in their lives?

@SimplySteveRedux She was 1 of 6 - brought up on a council estate, although you'd never know of course.

All her brothers and sisters have had successful careers and have interesting and creative hobbies etc. None of them talk to her that much anymore and they all have healthy relationships with their children despite a couple of them going through difficult divorces. She unsuccessfully tried to drive a wedge between one of her brothers and his daughter (my cousin) which took them a long time to heal from.

She did a bit of teaching before she got married which would have been perfect for her - ruling a class of kids. But never done anything else since. And I don't what she did all week when she was a housewife as I spent the weekends doing chores rather than kid stuff.

It's weird that she's the only one who's turned out that way. I often wonder whether she was wired wrong or whether she chose to behave like she does.

Manon I hear you, it's so gutting when we think of the ways that our lives have been compromised and bent out of shape for the convenience of these people, they were perfectly happy for us to feel bad just so long as it meant they felt good
they could never tolerate the idea of us as people existing for ourselves and in our own right ...only ever as extensions of them, we always had to be in service to them 😕🙄😔

I am really struggling with my decision to cut contact with my dm and df and Christmas is only around the corner. I didn't make contact with df since Easter though dm has been in contact (albeit with an angry aggressive manner half hidden). The past month or two I haven't been in contact with my parents at all. I have always had a poor relationship with her. Critical mocking. I am very self sufficient and never relied on my parents once I was old enough to. They don't know why I have cut contact they say they gave everything up for me and siblings. My dm lay In bed most days and screamed and cried still craves pure attention. She is racist towards a close family member and has turned my father against me. I am so upset.

I think the whole situation is beyond repair.
It's too long to go into everything but I used to visit or contact daily and clean and listen to all the criticism. Once I got married my dfather moved away for work. Dm blamed me for the lonelinest year of her life (siblings moved away). She has never recognised any achievements. She has mystery illness during any special occasion (hen wedding graduation). It's very hard to explain or prove how she is as she is the life and soul of the party but behind closed doors bitter and nasty.

Where do I go from here? I can't sleep most nights.

It’s not too long @Chilledout11, write down here what you’d like to say, what happened and how did it make you feel?
When it’s all swirling around in your head it creates such negative thoughts toward yourself. It sounds like you’ve made yourself a hostage to your mums controlling behaviour, and you don’t believe that you can change. It is really hard, and I can’t say if that will change. But I do know it’s worth trying.