But we took you to Stately Homes" October 2019 onwards thread

[toomuchtooold]

It's October 2019, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
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August 2008
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August-October 2019
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Thanks to everyone for your words of support. I think this could go one of two ways. Either I don't hear from her again for some time, or I get contacted within the next few days by her husband.

She will definitely be creating the story of me being the bad guy here, and telling all and sundry as such.

I find all this really difficult, having to reframe the way I think about her. I have trained myself to regard her with compassion instead of resentment, but that's just another way of not having boundaries.

She has used me as an emotional helpmeet my entire life. I don't like the way she treats my DC. Or me, for that matter.

She barely engages with my day to day life in spite of being welcomed in, invited over, me asking to visit and being told no, etc. What has happened to me and my DC barely impacts her at all, on a practical level. Blah.

@Icanseeclearlynow12 I know it's incredibly frustrating when you hang up/walk away and think of all things you could/should have said instead of just letting them their own way as usual. No judgement here, I do it too. I do find this thread very useful, I don't post often but I do read it alot. It reassures me I'm not imagining it, or overreacting, as when taken in isolation a lot of the incidents seem petty and not worth getting worked up about but when you can see the whole picture it's often a different story. You'll get loads of good advice on here.

Scatteredmama Thank you. It's a very difficult stage of realisation and knowing things can never be the same.
I wish I could post about the whole current situation as would love to know peoples thoughts given the story but.... it is so unusual I'm worried someone might recognise me!!

Hi @MarmadukeM have you discussed that ‘blanking’ feeling? You say ten sessions like it’s a lot. You’re unpacking a life long process of controlling your emotions here, it’s not going to be easy or quick. Does your therapist give you homework? Do you keep a reflective diary?

@hero we touched on it but I think it's going to be our topic of conversation next week maybe. I think I'm impatient ha ha and also I can only afford maybe 20 sessions so I was hoping to have cracked it but I can see that's not maybe realistic. It's a work in progress!

Hello to everyone,
Written out of the will also, she had it drawn up a year before she died.
Everything to my sisters. No surprise at all.
I was sent a summons to her death bed via golden BIL.
I declined to go, it would not have been about reconciliation.

I think recognizing what she is up to is certainly the first step clearly. Regarding the conversation you had today, would it be possible to send her a text saying you’ve thought it over and changed your mind? Or perhaps next time you feel her trying to push you in a certain direction, you just say you need to think about it and you’ll get back to her? I know it’s easier said than done after a lifetime of manipulation. I too would like to refer to many other incidents but fear that it will be recognizable to somebody I know who may happen to be reading.

What you’ve said about the incidents all seeming pretty certainly resonates with me too scattered. My M rarely says anything unpleasant but she has a wonderful ability to rain on my parade. She’s getting a taste of her own medicine now though. For many years she has lived with her partner in a run down flat in a deprived area with anti social neighbors. They are now buying a nice house in a lovely area and she keeps sending me photos. I’ve not replied other than to say the house looks nice and I hope the move goes well. I guess I should have just ignored the texts entirely, but I’m new to this and taking baby steps!

The lack of engagement is also one of my mothers tactics too cereal. She shows no interest in me or my children at all and turns every conversation back to her. One of the final straws was when my DD was so sick she went temporarily deaf. My M asked how she was, then went on a monologue about how terrible she herself was feeling. Putting herself above a sick two year old was just a step too far. She was visiting at the time and expecting me to look after her as well as / instead of my own children.

@MarmadukeM I didn’t mean to imply that it will take years, or loads of sessions, just that maybe you’re being hard on yourself for not making enough progress? The fact that you’re noticing your reactions to challenging things is a great place to be.

Hello fellow humans, please may I try to join in?

I've been dipping in and out of reading these threads for over a year now, and the collective wisdom has been so helpful. I've not posted anywhere before. My need for community/understanding is finally outweighing my fear of people and their motives, enough for me to register and post. This has surely got to be the safest place to try...

I'm female, early thirties. Living on benefits, paying for weekly psychotherapy since 2016 (ongoing). Most weeks my 50 minute session is my only human contact.

I've been completely NC with my mother for around 18 months now.

I don't want to launch straight into my life history, and in any case I wouldn't know how to begin. I have such difficulty expressing myself, especially around the topic of my mum, still.

I'm having some difficulty with my therapist, and I'm feeling like nobody is ever going to be able to understand. Reading stories on here though, I'm sure this is the place to find understanding... if there is such a place. Hence posting at last, I think. Sorry this is a bit garbled.
I don't really know what to say.

Thanks anyway, just for all being here discussing this kind of thing amongst yourselves. It's so powerful, and I really appreciate it.

Hello, BodySaysNO, I'm glad you found us. Take your time, no hurry. We all know how painful it is to trust and to open up but I promise you that there is no judgment here and there's usually someone round to listen when you are ready to talk.

I absolutely get what it's like trying to parent your mother and show her compassion cereal, I feel like I was trained to do it since I was a very small child. It comes at a massive personal cost to us and it's hard when you start asserting your boundaries.

My mother also goes on monologues about all the 'dramas' in her life, or spouting nonsense about the past. It is really draining to listen to. She's not usually nasty though, I think she knows I won't tolerate it so tries to stay on my good side to keep me around. She's not quite so restrained with my sister though. Looking back, I think she cast me as the golden child and my sister as the scapegoat, but because her behaviour was so off the wall I could see from an early age that she was crazy. That probably saved me from becoming more enmeshed than I might have been had she been a straight up narc (I suspect she's either borderline or schizoaffective, or both). Childhood was chaotic and insecure for me, but it was appallingly bad for my sister.

Inheritance was never an issue for me, as my mother frittered away everything we had on rubbish. We had to move from one rented house to another every couple of years, so I never really had a home. My parents were regularly behind on bills, had the electricity cut off, phone cut off, etc. If anything, I'll be expected to pay for their funerals as they have no savings at all. It is frustrating that she was so reckless, and my dad enabled it.

Hi BodySaysNO. It can be really hard to talk about these issues as it's so huge and so heavy, where do you start? A good therapist should be able to guide you along. If it's not quite clicking with your current one, would it be possible to try someone else?

Feel free to post anything you like on here, big or small. You're amongst people who get it

Hi everyone it's Halloweenmaz, named changed as it's not Halloween anymore obviously lol.
I haven't had a chance to catch up with the thread but will do tonight.

Just wanted to say I'm going to be brave and go to al-anon tonight. Really scared though.
My mum is having a mood swing and taking it out on me. However fine with my sister. So I'm trying to ignore but I feel a sense on panic as i know how quick she can turn and get nasty.

Good on you @Jinglebells10 hope your meeting gives you what you need tonight, it’s a good thing to do for yourself.

Be brave, Jinglebells. In my former career, I had a lot of contact with the people who run the AA and Al-Anon groups. No judgment there either. They know how hard it is to open up. After all, you don't have to say anything if you don't want to. You can just sit and listen for awhile. A bit like here

Good luck tonight, Jingle.

Hi BodySaysNo we're all here whenever you want to talk.
Hi Jingle well done for deciding to go despite feeling really scared.
It sounds so awful and chaotic Cherry:(

Thank you so much [b]SingingLily[/b], and [b]Cherrycee[/b].

I do wonder about changing therapists. There are only a very few around here who offer a sliding scale though, and I'm forever concerned about leaping out of the frying pan into the fire.

My therapist is kind to me, I believe she genuinely cares about me and that she does TRY to understand (though seems to have accepted that she can't?). In certain ways she has helped me gain a better understanding of myself - particularly in relation to my (undiagnosed, yet pretty obvious once understood!) neurodiversity (she used to be an occupational therapist). Certainly not rubbishing her. I just can't shake the distinct feeling that although she tells me she believes me, she can't hold off on trying to see it from mum's point of view as well, and sympathising with her. I can sense this even though she no longer voices such musings to me (I told her how it made me feel, and credit to her she clearly took that on board and now holds it in!). She does a lot of couple and group therapy too, so it may just be her habit to be weighing different perspectives all the time and finidng middle ground.. She's also a mother (-hopefully not a shit one!!).

Ambivalance is usual for me. I trust her confidentiality (at last, at least) which is extremely important to me.

My mother's career is in acute mental health care. Same true of the man of hers who raped and terrorised me aged 14-16. Same true of the CAMHS social worker who told me aged 18 and diagnosed with PTSD that my 'actual' issue was clearly that I had 'allowed my mum's fiance to 'seduce' me and that I felt guilty about it because I'd betrayed my mum'! :-/. Sorry to say I've personally known too many 'professionals' who are abusive people, the 'professional, caring' persona is a cover. Always worries me. I know my paranoia is out of proportion to reality, but it's very much IN proportion with MY reality to date.

Thanks so much everyone for having me here.

I have recently come down with shingles, I'm feeling exceedingly rough. Think I'm feeling extra vulnerable, and extra pissed off. I'm looking after myself as best I can. This post is outing as heck if anyone who knows me reads this (hi, therapist! :o), but I'm deciding not to worry about that or I'll never get anything out of me.

Thanks Uterego, too! :)

How do I bold?

BodySaysNo I'm so sorry, you've been treated despicably, anyone would find it very hard to trust after that kind of betrayal.
I'm appalled to think that a therapist could sympathise with your mother.
I'm so sorry you've not been able to get justice for what happened to you

Dear God, BodySaysNO, you've been through the mill and back, failed over and over by people you are supposed to be able to trust. I'm so sorry 💐

I'm no expert on therapy or therapists but however kind she might be, she doesn't sound quite the right fit for you. You need someone who has no bias in favour of family, or at least one who can make you feel as though she is with you on your journey. I'm hoping someone will be along soon to give you more insight on this.

To bold, just put an asterisk * on both sides of the word you want to emphasise.

I really am glad you found us now. This is definitely the right place for you.

That’s really difficult @BodySaysNo as you say it’s clear she believes you but she’s keen to offer you repair, (most therapists are) and understandably that’s not what you want or need. You sound very isolated so I can see why you’d want to continue the relationship. Is there anything that’s come out of your reading this thread that has helped you?

I’m so appalled by your experience with the person who dismissed your assault. That’s never acceptable in any circumstances, I’m so very sorry.

@hero don't worry ha ha I didn't take it that way 😀. @bodysaysno that is horrific. It's awful how someone can pass a judgement on you like that CAHMS person did. So damaging to you and it sticks in your conscious doing god knows what additional damage. They are a great bunch of people on here to talk to who will 'get' you. We've all got differing circumstances but everyone is here to help each other.

I'm sitting in the car park outside al-anon. I'm really nervous. I hope it's not too bad

You can do this.