But we took you to Stately Homes" October 2019 onwards thread

[toomuchtooold]

It's October 2019, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018-May 2019
May-August 2019
August-October 2019
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

1Micem0use

You are not your mother and are completely separate from her. You also have two qualities that she lacks; empathy and insight. Its a commonly expressed fear this one you have expressed but you will not turn into your mother.

Remain no contact with your mother.

@1MiceM0use Congratulations! Do you feel like you have a good level of trust with your DP/DH? You don't have to answer that (!) but if you do then remember that you're a partnership when it comes to parenting, and you should be able to be open to them about your fears. If I could turn the clock back and do it all again, I wish I'd appreciated that instead of trying to do it all myself, pushing DH away, not sharing my feelings, and often being quite critical of his ways of doing things. Keep talking and do it together. Most of us don't have a very good example of parents working together effectively so its something we have to learn almost from scratch. Either way, with DP or not, you'll be a great mum because you have broken the chain and recognised what was wrong with your childhood. Yes, always a risk and none of us are perfect, but you'll probably consider how you parent more than most.

Hi everyone. Does anyone here feel desperate for having their feelings validated and their needs acknowledged and to feel heard and respected that they uncontrollably start over sharing information as a way to justify to their abuser how desperate they are to have it thrown in their face .. or even find any Dick or Harry that might be willing to listen to be able to share their mental load when they’re feeling desperate or lonely... only to then regret making a fool out of themselves??

How do you deal with this desperate need to be validated/acknowledged and how do you help yourself keep your gob shut and enjoy the loneliness

I think it’s a case of me not knowing how to manage my own negative feelings on my own and end up desperately hoping someone will direct me to a way to manage them. I guess that makes me codependent.. does that make me sound horrible ?

Thank you. I wouldn't really want to share this fear with those I know, but I am going to ask my midwife about counselling when I see her on weds.

Thank you, that's really kind of you. I'm just a bit emotional with the pregnancy. Staying nc is def the right thing

@AmbitiouslyFit No it doesn't make you sound horrible, it makes it sound like you haven't been having your needs and feelings validated or heard by the people who you should be able to trust, and we all need that. Are you able to get or have you had any professional help? For me, a councellor meant I could open up without fear of it being thrown back in my face. They will listen and help you figure out a way of coping better, without judging you. I hated going, I still hate going (because its painful to talk about these things), but it has helped me. Others can advise you better, and on co-dependency, I'm very new here. I'm sorry you're feeling this way, it can be different and you do deserve better.

Hi @AmbitiouslyFit if you are unable to access some counselling then you need to learn some techniques to regulate yourself. Intrusive negative thoughts are really problematical, I do understand. You need to learn some mindfulness techniques, if you haven’t already, and really practice them.

Find validation in something you do, and keep a diary of it so you can see your progress, join something, help others. Write down your thoughts and maybe if it’s your type of thing practice daily gratitude - even if it’s something tiny.

Try and spend more time thinking about your wellbeing rather than the past. There are podcasts about psychological wellbeing, maybe listen to one before you go to sleep.

Is there anyone at all who you can talk to? A friend who knows you well? Any support at work?

Take care of yourself 💐

@vgtasd yes I can definitely relate to the when she's nice she's really nice and when she's horrible she's like a different person.
Think I'm coming to realise that the abuse from my mum is so similar of that to my ex. He was emotionally abusive and I've come to realise so is she. And I've come to realise this is the same cycle they teach you about as your partners. I never saw it like that before. My exes cycle of abuse just happened more quickly

Just being on this thread has made me happier, having people who understand and being able to talk about it. Like a weight has lifted.

when she's nice she's really nice and when she's horrible she's like a different person
and let not forget that those highs and lows are very destabilizing, you are swinging between being feted and being trashed, in a constant state of hyper arousal. Very damaging:( like a long running good cop/bad cop act designed to break you down.

I think I have burned the relationship with my therapist:(
I was sure that my appt was on Tuesday at 11am, but then on monday at 10am my phone alerted me that I have an appt in 1 hours time, I realised I'd messed up and wouldnt be able to get there in time.
I sent a very apologetic e-mail and asked if we could reschedule for 11am on any other day.
She replied that there is a fee for late cancellations and the next available appt is 3 weeks time at 12 noon.
I will pay the fee because cancelling like that is very rude and I dont want to be the rude person who does a runner, but I just feel like I want to try a different therapist now.
I went to her in a state of crisis and I just needed someone to help me calm down, which she did but there are a few little things that made me feel she's not really right for me.
I would welcome insights from others please

Thanks ladies. So my therapist told me that I need to stop thinknt negativity and take responsibility for my own feelings and manage them.

My friend shut me down when I tried to seek support on a personal situation when she asked me for an update because I think she saw it as I’m being negative.

I’m going through a difficult time but it has been Long ongoing.

I don’t know why I haven’t taken well to the therapist advice. It almost felt like she was saying that to manage my feelings I need to shut down any worries I have and not feel negative about a negative situation. I don’t understand how that translates in real life if I’m actually going through a difficult negative situation.

I can understand that I need strategies to cope and be patient. I just don’t understand though how I need to force some positivity and gratefulness our of a very negative situation. Am I misunderstanding?

Lets say person A is Abusive and manipulative to person B. If the therapist told person B that they need to take responsibility to manage their own feelings and stop thinkng negatively.. how does that translate to real life ?

I found that difficult to hear because to me it translates as “it’s your fault if you feel negative you should be happy regardless” which I know is very black and white so I’m trying to understand.

Thanks

Ambitiously, I presume the therapist is getting at the need to reframe things in your mind such that your thought processes are not holding you back, however as I understand it the job of the therapist is to facilitate you, to hold up a light in the darkness so that you can start to see a path forward.
But it sounds more like she's telling you off for having the problems that you're seeking help for?

Is it CBT @AmbitiouslyFit? As it deals with the ‘here and now’ the therapist will support you to think about your current approach rather than who’s doing/done what to you.
If it’s not working then talk to her, she works for you! Ask her if she thinks another approach might work for you, it’s her role to support you to move on if necessary.

@Ulterego Are you feeling like you want to find a new therapist because of the missed appointment or because you genuinely feel she's not right for you? I did the very same thing and had to pay the fee, and I felt pretty embarrassed about it, like she'd just discovered what a disorganised person I really am (not that I'm saying you are ), plus its a lot to fork out for no return so that smarted a bit. I would keep the appointment for 3 weeks time for now and you can start looking, but you might feel better about it in a few days time. I agree with other post that they are working for you, and at the same time it really is purely a professional arrangement for them so as long as you've paid the fee then she's not going to be thinking anything about it.

@Ulterego that sounds really upsetting. Talk to your therapist honestly about it. Your therapy is really important, have a think about why you forgot about it. Some clients self-sabotage,they’re late, or they cancel, or forget. Maybe they’re finding it really hard, or they’re just not prioritising their own needs. Therapists need you to pay for two reasons, they needs to earn a living, and they need you to appreciate how very important the session is.

Therapy isn’t about politeness or good manners, it’s about making you value yourself and the work you do to find some balance.

Your first session should have mainly been about the boundaries, setting out the terms of your relationship. She will stick to these like glue in order to support you, so you can rely on her to always do what she says. You should feel very safe with her. Do you?

For example, I was seeing someone for a while and I always ended up running the last bit, so I got there just in time, but a bit flustered and out of breath. Apologising. We talked about it, and I just realised it was actually really important that I started in a calmer way, so I should organise myself better. Because it was my hour, for me.

I'm always running late and I actually think there's something wrong with me in that respect. Its like a mental block to allowing enough time. I know it sounds like something I should just be able to change, I'm 46 ffs. My next therapist is going to be CBT and that's one of the things I really need to work on.

But sometimes it’s not easy @FreshStart01. If it’s habitual then maybe it’s about you not being your own priority.

Definitely habitual. I'm better about getting the children to their activities because I know its rwally unfair on them, better but far from perfect. And I know its rude and annoying and I feel so rubbish, but I still do it.

Anyway, sorry, not one for here!

If you’re really busy, and you’re relying on public transport, or your job has no flexibility, or your kids have to be the priority then the thing to do is work around that, but cut yourself some slack. You don’t have to feel rubbish about it, just accept that sometimes you’re late and it’s not your fault. Don’t beat yourself up.

But if you’re just not organising yourself very well, then maybe ask why that is?

It is, I think. Putting yourself down and not thinking about your own needs is very much what children of narcissists learn to do.

Freshstart thank you for sharing this
I did the very same thing and had to pay the fee, and I felt pretty embarrassed about it
I think I've gone into stroppy teenager mode, annoyed and embarrassed, I feel as if I'd be curmudgeonly in the sessions now because I've misbehaved and been 'sanctioned'...obvs I can see that it doesnt have to be framed in that way.

Hero thank you for explaining things, I think there is some unconscious self sabotage with me, I do feel safe with the therapist, although I also feel a bit as if she disapproves of me, I think I come across as very 'wrong side of the tracks' with all the bad things in my life
I really felt I was making progress, but having to pay an extra £70 ouch!
I'll just have to take the hit, cough up and carry on...
((Thank you gods of the electronic ether for bringing us all to this thread))

@Ulterego thats true, i feel calmer and happier atm with less contact with her.
As someone else said are wanting to change because you were late or you feel they are not right for you? I think if you feel its the latter then change. It took me a fair few counsellors to find the right lady. She really helped me and i felt she was actually listening and being empathetic. I feel we need someone like that to validate our feelings.

I also agree about the time keeping thing. I used to be like this. I'm slowly getting better at being on time. But i'm much better when i know its for my DS as like you said its important for them.

This evening my Dsis messaged me, didn't ask how me and DS are, just went straight in with asking me loads of questions about her son. Which fair enough i understand she's concerned but i've told her a million times what i think the issue is and shes ignored doctors advice so I don't know what else she expects from me? She is being really selfish in my opinion as what she is doing is directly affecting her DS and its really making me angry now. I am seeing my mum in her so much now. I also feel I give advice to my family when they ask, but i get ignored. I always feel ignored and that my opinion doesn't matter. I always try because i always seek validation and love.

Ambitiously what you have put about sharing, and wanting someone to hear you, then really regretting it

I also think this neediness and sharing that much information has repeatedly meant I'm easily manipulated. By people who support that giving me a little positive feedback is like water in a desert. Then in turn I end up not trusting even those who are nice to me for fear is actually a manipulation.

Massive over thinking but this is how my mind works half the time.