But we took you to Stately Homes" October 2019 onwards thread

[toomuchtooold]

It's October 2019, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
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November 2018-May 2019
May-August 2019
August-October 2019
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

It is very hard when your parents just don't have your back, I think lots of us feel that need for a go-to person who you know will be there for you, if you can't rely on your parents in that respect then it can make you more vulnerable to choosing partners who are abusive

Etty, maybe reply along the lines of 'sounds great hope you have a lovely time'
if they inquire as to whether you will be attending you can just say 'sorry i'm not free on that day, hope you have a lovely meal' ?

I don’t know @Etty17, I wouldn’t want retaliation to be your motivator. I think you don’t want to go, but right now are you in the right headspace for that?

Before I went NC I went to a family get together, and I was just incredibly high energy and positive, asked them lots of questions, really made a fuss of them so there was no space to make negative comments. It was ok for once, although it was a one-off, I’m not an actor and I don’t like being false, but it got me through. Don’t let an occasion propel you into making a statement you’re not ready to commit to. Do what you want in your own time.

If you’re too busy to go for a meal, offer a genuine alternative which suits you.

However tempting it is to pay them back in kind.

I have booked in with a counsellor, but not for a few weeks due to his availability, so maybe I should carry on for now with as little contact as possible without rocking the boat, until I can at least have the support from therapy if I decide to go fully NC. This would mean just putting a hard hat on for tomorrow and only a couple of hours to keep the peace for now.

Hey, sorry I've not been engaging much but I am reading, thank you all

Session 6 of EMDR yesterday looked into my fake suicide attempt when I was 15.

The afternoon before, I told my mum I needed psychiatric help for distress from bullying. It was a big thing for me to ask that. She told me I was fine and to keep studying. Nothing more said.

Next day, on study leave, I staged a suicide attempt (booze and pills) for her return from work.

As I remembered the conversation with mum where she said I was fine and I realised then I was completely on my own, my mind greyed out. I was still following the EMDR light but I couldn't 'see' it (if that makes sense) I began shaking, convulsing maybe, and I nearly passed out from hyperventilating. I was present enough to control my breathing enough to stay conscious. This lasted a minute, maybe two, felt like ages.

The rest of the session went well, cleared the memory of trauma and cleared my body of a lot of trauma. Felt fantastic afterwards. Stronger and calmer today.

We’re right behind you, better things are in view.

I do think your response is perfect Ulterego, but on reflection I'm not sure I'm ready yet. I know any attempt to refuse to go tomorrow will result in backlash. If it was just a normal offer of Sunday dinner it would be easy to decline but birthday for no genuine reason will not go down well. I'm feeling a bit fragile this week already so the lesser of the two evils is just to put up with it for now.

Jam, I don't know anything about EMDR therapy but that's incredible to feel so positive and strong afterwards. Have you found from the previous sessions that the feelings last?

Etty, it sounds as if your instincts are steering you right here, if you go along to the birthday thing and act normal that will buy you some time to build up your strength so that you can deal with things when you do feel able to cut out contact.

I've had a couple of EMDR sessions it does feel very powerful I feel as if I can see things more clearly veils are being lifted, stress related health issues are improving.

Etty, I'm having EMDR almost weekly (sometimes I have talking therapy) and I am getting better each time.

I am so motivated to feel better - these sessions are sometimes brutally tough but I am fighting for my life. Pills, cbt, mindfulness, drink drugs and boyfriends, family and friends dramaz... nothing took away the painful hole inside me. The hole that the emotionally motherless have. EMDR and therapy to help me recover from the injuries my narc mum made are helping. I have a small daughter that I want to live for and be the best parent I can be for.

My therapy sessions will come to an end in a few months. The test will be whether, a year on, if I still feel as strong (or strong enough to make a difference).

Hello, It's me again. I posted a few days ago about my mum
I've NEVER stood up to her/stood up for myself.
I'm going to have to with this current situation(Sorry I can't say what's going on).....I know she won't react well as i always just go along with things and generally laid back.
Was just wondering would it be so bad to do it by text message???? Or face to face better? Why am i so anxious about this, im a grown woman ffs

Hi Icansee😊
I'm inclined to say it would be better to conduct things by text message, I find it much easier to control the conversation and not be triggered, keep it brief and factual and don't get drawn into justifying your decisions
you have a right to make your own choices and you don't have to answer to anyone, you're an adult

I'm doing all my interactions with the parents by text these days. It's working well.

I also would say definitely text. If she reacts then it gives you time and space to decide if you want to respond or not, and if you do respond then gives you time to think through what you will say. I find with my mum I probably don't help the situation because I get annoyed and try and reason with her and then it can escalate in to an argument or being shut down and I always end up feeling worse.

My mother rings my dd who is 17 and calls my new partner a c*nt, can't take anymore explosive outbursts

Dear God, Vgtasd, that's reason enough to block her.

Thanks @SingingLily I'm from a very dysfunctional family and it's amazing how things become normal over the years x

Sometimes, Vgtasd, that's where this thread helps. It's only by reading others' reactions that you feel able to reset your "normal" to one that's closer to everyone else's. In fact, sometimes it's only on this thread that I don't feel I am speaking a foreign language.

@herocomplex thank you it's been a tough 4/5 years but in that time I have seen my family for what they truly are. So I guess that's a positive. And I really do think she likes me relying on her. She's been a SAHP since I've been born, I think someone else said about the house being spotless and couldn't mess it up? Mine was also like this. I've come to realise it was not all my mum and it was my dad through my mum who also hated the mess and made sure my mum kept it spotless and perfect.

Thanks @ulterego I think slowly and stealth may have to be the way.

@etty17 yes our situations sound extremely similar and our mums sound the same too. I also worry on the effect they will have on him. He has now taken golden child status which I was when I was younger. So maybe I'm scapegoat now? I worry she will put stuff in his ear about me, e.g. oh your mum is over reacting and things like that.
About the meal maybe go this time if you feel ok to and when you can go to therapy discuss it with them for future occasions?

vgtsd that sounds awful! Guessing the tip of the iceberg

@Halloweenmaz yes this has been going on for years when she's nice she's amazing but when she turns she's so nasty, can't stick the never knowing when she'll kick off, my nerves are wrecked

@Vgtasd Jesus! What does your dd make of this? Grandmother of the year, huh?!
And yeah, @icansee, I agree, text is much easier to manage. I also feel a lot of anxiety at the thought of having to see my mother and her dickhead of a husband face to face. I know we think we shouldn't feel this way but of course we are going to feel anxiety towards people who have raged at us, threatened us, frozen us out etc etc etc. You are just human xx

@MarmadukeM I think my poor dd is getting used to this rubbish, my mother often phones her up and moans about me and the language is getting worse

Having a hard time being NC with my mother as my first baby is due January. Having my own growing inside me makes me even more confused about how she is the way that she is. How she could have done the things that she did, and stood by and allowed her boyfriend to spit at me and call me evil and such. I don't want to be anything like her as a parent. It's a big fear that I'll end up being like her.

Vgtasd

Your DD needs to block her grandmother being able to contact her. She should not be at all getting used to all this from this person.

Abusive people can be "nice" sometimes but the nice/nasty cycle of theirs is really a continuous one. She will continue to wreak your nerves and life if she is at all allowed into it.

Where is your dad in all this?.