But we took you to Stately Homes" October 2019 onwards thread

[toomuchtooold]

It's October 2019, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
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March 2011
November 2011
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May-August 2019
August-October 2019
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

That’s you too, @SimplySteveRedux, you’ve put in the work here. I bet you’d be amazed how many people read your words and feel validation, even if they never post. You’re very brave, it’s not easy to write things and put them Out There in the world, when you’d just dearly love it to disappear.
Onwards x

I also want to say thanks to people for posting here too. I've followed a while before posting anything. And it's really helped me to see things more clearly. It's also great that people here understand and don't do the whole "but they are still your parents"

Sorry I'm late to the party and so haven't RTFT yet. Just wanted to say

@dontknowdontknow Christ do not let them move in. I am 😮😮😮just reading that. YOU WOULD REPENT AT LEISURE.

@Frazzledmummy123 its a way back in the thread but I wanted you to know that I so identified with your words 'character assassination'. There is something uniquely devastating about being on the receiving end of this from your parents. It shook my world. Still does. Unfortunately I firmly believe you won't get the resolution you crave. Either capitulate and learn to grey rock I never did - too heartbreaking or go LC/NC. Please don't hand your kids over to someone who won't even respect you in your home.

@SimplySteveRedux well put. Big love to everyone 😘

@tobedtoMNandfart this is one thread that you will never be yelled at for not having read. Just take what you need. 💐

👍😊

tobedtoMNandfart sorry to hear you have also been on the receiving end of a character assassination by your parents. It really is a horrible thing to experience as its human nature that we look to our parents for support and approval and when they turn the guns on you it is so isolating and soul destroying as they are the people, or if it's one parent, the person who is not meant to do this. I made the huge mistake of continually seeking approval my whole life and never got it, and of course I never will.

Aww @herocomplex that's so kind, I highly doubt my posts are that valuable though - although I've always had problems dealing with any kind of praise for "successes" for want of a better word.

Hi
I hope you don't mind me posting here, I have things to get off my mind and I'm pretty confused but I think/hope this is a good place to start

I'm feeling guilty about thinking these things never mind writing them down.

I've been thinking a lot lately about how I am as a person and the way I react and parent my children which in turn has made me feel that my childhood was not the happiest and my mum was a big reason for that

I probably can't write everything down in one go but some examples
She's a very negative person, always looks on the worst side of everything

She can be a very selfish person, talks about her problems a lot and gossips about other family members. I always feel extremely drained when I've seen or spoken to her

She wasn't affectionate and even now i don't feel comfortable giving her a hug. I wouldn't go to her if I feeling sad or needed help in an emotional way

I was made to feel guilty for example when i moved out of home she cried her eyes out and said how lonely she would now be

She doesn't seem to be particularly "present" and isn't interested in how i am or my children for that matter.

With all of these problems it isn't how she is all of the time if that makes sence?!
For context 3 of her children are no contact with her, she has recently done something pretty dreadful and selfish which I can't disclose

I'm sad that she will never be the mum/nan that i need and also worried it might be making me a bad mum

Hello, Icanseeclearlynow, and welcome to the thread.

It makes complete sense that your mother is not like that all of the time. Even dysfunctional parents and families get things right sometimes. However, two things stood out from your post.

The first is that three of her children are NC with her. That's not a coincidence. Whatever she did that was so awful was unlikely to be a single isolated incident, more a huge last straw and possibly part of a wider pattern of behaviour.

The second is this:

I'm sad that she will never be the mum/nan that i need and also worried it might be making me a bad mum

If you are worried about being a bad mum, it is highly unlikely that you are. Bad mums don't worry or don't think or don't care about the impact they have on their children. You do. You might be unsure about your parenting skills - let's face it, your mother was no role model to you - but if you are doing everything you can to make your children feel safe, secure, loved and listened to, then you are doing just fine.

Icanseeclearlynow12 please don't feel guilty, you wouldn't be posting on this thread unless you needed to and your mum's behaviour was the reason why you've shared your feelings with us. We all know and understand as we've been there and a lot of us understand what you are saying.

It's very sad when we can't go to our mum for emotional support, she is the one person who should be there for us. It's a horrible isolating feeling. I find myself often talking to close friends and I'm sure I look to them because I don't he support from my mum.

I don't think you should worry about how you treat your own kids, as SingingLily said, if you worry about being a bad mum the chances are you're not as bad mum's don't worry they are. Take how your mum treated you and don't do the same and you'll be fine. Show you love them, be there for them and you are there! Xx

Social media is the worst sometimes!

If one more Facebook friend shares posts like 'love your mum every day and spend time with her. You'll miss her when she is gone', etc I'll scream .

Thank you both for your kind words.

She also put me in a very vulnerable situation when I was a child, allowing me to stay overnight with someone who was aggressive, violent, and abusive both sexually and emotionally. I wasn't planning on sharing this but I feel better to write everything down.

This latest drama that she's created feels too much for me to cope with and support her in, I just want to live a calm, stress free life

@icanseeclearlynow welcome to the thread
I can relate to the not being that way all the time and it's very confusing isn't it. However like someone else said your siblings being NC is very telling. I'm sorry you're going through this, is not nice but you're in the right place.

@frazzledmummy123 I know social media is the worst!! Especially if you're going through a hard time and everything looks so perfect. I take timeouts from it from time to time. It helps

💐Icanseeclearlynow

She failed you then. She's failing you now. You deserve better. And I'm sorry to say this because it will be hard to hear but she will never be a good grandmother to your children. You could never be absolutely certain they would be safe with her.

You sound so low and so battle-weary. We've all been there, in our different ways. It's OK to say as much or as little as you want on here. Just being able to get it off your chest does help.

I'm wondering if you are in touch with the others who are NC with her and whether they are a support to you. I have my much loved DSis who suffered at my mother's hands too - even more than I did - but my other two siblings might as well be on another planet. In fact, sometimes I wish they were

Morning, Halloweenmaz and FrazzledMummy. Social media, TV commercials, and now that Halloween is over, the Christmas season has started. We'll get through it. This thread goes mental in the run-up to Christmas but somehow, we'll get through it.

@Icanseeclearlynow I'm sorry for your experiences, it sucks. Along with that feeling of 'it wasn't always bad' when the parent acts normal, nice towards us, which can make us doubt our own judgement, is the feeling that people outside the family sees them as a good guy. I struggle with this. Why does my father think its ok to act the way he does with his own family, but is charming with outsiders? Is it an act? I saw him with some work colleagues once on an evening out and he was the life and soul, making everyone laugh, yet at home he was miserable - always. He plays the sympathy card a lot about my DB (learning disability), isn't it soooo sad, which drives me mad because it is what it is, and my DM doesn't feel the need to seek the sympathy vote every time she meets someone (she would remember that she has a DD to talk about as well who doesn't have a disability).

I know there's no judgement on here of who's got it worse or not so bad, but I just feel the need to say that I do massively sympathise with all of you that can't have a good relationship with your mother, I know that I am incredibly lucky to have my DM who was a victim as well and should have left sooner than she did but was convinced (by him directly? or just because he'd ground her confidence down gradually?) that she wouldn't cope. I wish she'd had the courage to leave with me and my DB, but she did try to protect me in many ways, and I can't view her as an enabler. Enablers are victims too, depends on how they then choose to behave, how far they're willing to go to protect themselves.

Do you know why she chose to stay @FreshStart01? Is she still with him? I think most of us have some vulnerability about our enabler parent, it’s not straightforwardly bad. The choice for most of us isn’t made on the basis of hatred of another person, it’s done from a recognition that we should protect and value ourselves. The enabler has made a choice that we as children couldn’t make. Now we are adults we can make our own, often sad and painful, choice.

I’m glad you have a relationship with your mum if it brings you happiness.

Unfortunately I only have support from one sibling, It's complicated and everyone has their own issues.

I wonder why it's taken me so long to finally start seeing that this is really not normal or right. And I wonder if I will have the courage to stand up to her, I think it will be a big upset and surprise for her

Thank you all again, I've read though some of the posts and you are all very brave

@Icanseeclearlynow12 it’s a terribly difficult time, the bit you’re going through. Admitting to yourself that things are not how you want them to be.

You could look at things slightly differently though, you don’t have to stand up to her, you can think of it as standing up for yourself

Some people do have a big showdown but it’s very difficult to keep your self-control in the face of someone who has manipulated you all your life. It’s possible to set your boundaries for what you want from other people, and your parent is expected to respect them as much as anyone else. Think about how you want to be spoken to, and the things that are unacceptable. When they are transgressed you can firmly say no, no more. Once you start you’ll be surprised how strong you feel, just practice.
You can get through this, not easily, but you can. 💐

I wonder why it's taken me so long
In part because those who benefited from keeping you in the dark worked constantly to keep you hoodwinked, the truth is obscured by years and years and layers of obfuscation, confusion shame guilt smoke and mirrors.
But when you see the light, when you rip away that curtain

So my Dsis is suppose to be coming round. 3 hours ago she said she would get ready and come round. Text her 45 mins ago asking where she was, no reply. Text my mum and asked if she had heard from my Dsis, no reply. So I rang my sister and she tells me she's at our mums. AIBU to think it's disrespectful to not even text saying you have stopped at our mums?
I feel like my family constantly disrespect me. If it was the other way around I would get comments and attitude from them. I know I shouldn't put up with it.

yes that is very rude, but you give them too many chances, I would have messaged my sister that if she still coming round let me know and if I don't hear back from her I'll assume she isn't coming round.
Don't go chasing around after them as if they are the important ones, start behaving as if you are the important one and they should be grateful if you even let them have any of your time

Get busy with other stuff @Halloweenmaz

Is this how they normally treat you?