I’d do anything for her

[Granadella1]

I was with my partner for 5 years , we have 2 amazing boys , without going into details I was a complete dickhead , I never cheated and was never violent towards her , but I was constantly stoned , emotionally unavailable I am guilty of Gas lighting , communication broke down , I wasn’t supportive when she needed me , I acted like some kind of Peter Pan and didn’t want to grow up , I started smoking weed when I was 12 , I’m 39 now .
We initially split in December , and to cut a long story short we decided to give it another go , I had stopped smoking for a couple of months but started again shortly after we reconciled, she never really committed to giving it another try , although I understand why , so we separated again at the beginning of August, she hasn’t spoken to me since , she’s not let me see the boys and refuses to speak to me at all , I haven’t smoked since that day , I have been attending support groups for the smoking , I started going to the gym regularly I now have 2 jobs I have been to the doctors for help , I’m doing everything in my power to change the behaviour that ended our relationship, she still refuses to speak to me , I have texted and asked her to tell me to give up , she hasn’t even said it’s over , what do I do ?? I don’t want to give up on her or us being a family !!
Any advice would be appropriated , I have the c100 form ready because I need to see my kids , but I still love her ... is it a lost cause ?

@lottelupin

Of course I don't, hence why I made no assumptions about your background. You, however, did (wrongly) assume to know about the experiences of posters here.

Persistently choosing drugs over the welfare of your partner and children is abusive.

But, aside from the disgraceful insensitivity of your comparison of an abusive relationship with a game of top trumps, you are happy to continue thinking you know best.

Crack on then

Very few people gave him any credit for being in a programme to kick the addiction he had. Many said he was a loser and some even mocked him for 'only' having done 91 days. How is that supportive?

I was one of the people that said 90 days is nothing. Because it is nothing. Addicts don't get better by being treated like fluffy bunnies for trying. "Trying is lying". Once he's done at least a year of proper, honest recovery maybe his ex will be ready to hear his proper amends for his behaviour.

And he was abusive. He gaslighted his ex. That's emotionally abusive. He still has a mental picture of a wildly successful sporty great dad. I worked with millionaires in treatment. Invariably their recovery would fail until they acknowledged that the picture wasn't correct. That the outside didn't match the inside and that they were just as addicted as the homeless people we treated.

Frankly rehab seemed horribly mean to me until I saw it work. And saw fluffy, helpful support fail. Recovery is rough. It has to be to work.

Wow , just wow

*WhatwouldWhat?do?
*
No, sorry if it was hard to understand. Not Top Trumps, and not comparing an abusive relationship to anything - referring to the fact that I've encountered several of the worse examples of abuse. Unfortunately.

We don't really know anything of what went on between OP and wife, so can't really judge properly.

Granadella I still think 90 days is a hell of a lot better than 0 days, and is going in the right direction at last.

I agree 90 days is fantastic.
Ever tried to give up smoking ?

Keep going op.

A 1000 miles starts with 1 step.

Of course, 90 days is better than zero, but it's a drop in the ocean versus a 27 year old habit.

Cigarettes I mean.

You need to concentrate on slowly, tentatively building bridges if you want a relationship with your DC.
You have lost your ex's trust and understandably she doesn't want you in her life.
Can you understand why she doesn't want you around?

I understand that you miss your DC but you need to put any thought of getting back with your ex out of your mind. It sounds like she has moved on.

There are a lot of very judgmental people on this site, a lot of people with too much time on their hands who enjoy giving sad people a kicking. It is a little pathetic, really.

However...

If you are not being allowed to see your children, this should be your first (and only real) concern as a father. You should be moving heaven and earth to see them. Also, why would you want to get back together with someone who is so cold hearted as to cut you off from your own children?!

In terms of your relationship, no one owes you a relationship. You cannot ‘prove yourself’ worthy of one. You need to treat her like a new relationship, ask for a date and take it from there. The fact that you were once in a relationship is irrelevant.

Also, you have to be able to see yourself from her perspective, an ex junkie who has been clean for two minutes and may start using again any time. Would you (if genuinely determined to stay clean) take that risk with a woman in the same position?

I do really sympathise with you as you can now see that you have wasted a golden opportunity. But, if you can separate the (good) advice from the (horrible) tone, you need to listen to what everyone is saying.

Move hell and high water to responsibly parent your kids, avoid relationships for a while, and build up your own self esteem. When you are happy in yourself you can open yourself up to relationships again.....maybe even with her, but only if she comes to you.

lottelupin, your naivety regarding addiction is surpassed only by your arrogance towards other Mnetters. Your minimising of abuse and validation of the abuser leads me to believe that you still need more help to deal with the abuse you have received. Have you tried the Freedom Programme?

No Dione - my point is just that we don't know any real details of what's happened between them. But if someone is trying to quit an addiction, we shouldn't put them down and belittle them.
Thanks for your concern but yes am totally aware and no am not an abuse facilitator. I just reacted on here to the negative comments about him at the start of his journey to improve. Can't see the justification for that. Dislike the negativity.

Sorry I didn't toe the party line, Dione - what's that again? Oh yes:

OP, you have to face that you're a total loser. You've ruined the life of your wife and kids with your indefensible addiction. God knows what abusive behaviour they've had to endure. They've had enough. Now you are trying to get clean - but that's clearly just fir you, not them. No of course they'll never want you again, nor should you be allowed anywhere near them. And also remember that addicts never recover fully.

That? That's what has been said to him. How does that help? WTF does that do?

The guy needs to do the best he can to be as viable a co-parent and sad as he can be. He needs encouragement, not shooting down. What I do know about any life challenge, and addiction, is that you have to move on with hope, and that believing you can do it is the key element.

It's abusive to mock his hope and shoot him down. It's abusive, too, to undermine my voice and devalue it.

As viable a co parent and dad 🤭

We do know details Lotte, the OP provided them. He didnt come here looking addiction support, he came here with a very different agenda indeed. I think your experience of abuse is blinding you to what the OP is doing. I did not say that you were an abuse facilitator. You are displaying the coping mechanisms of an abused woman.

The OP's Ex has ended his abuse of her by ending the relationship. He needs to respect her wishes. His presence here is not about respecting her or his children and may even be an attempt to further abuse her if she is a Mnetter.

Dione you're off here.

I've reread his initial post. According to him (which I'm well aware is a biased source), his 'being a dickhead' involved being emotionally unavailable and unsupportive. Aka presumably constantly stoned, slippery with the truth, using money and time to feed the addiction, being unreliable in every way, not contributing, relying on her to be the adult for all of them, possibly being emotionally and verbally aggressive. He says not physically violent. He said gas-lighted but later took back as hadn't realised quite what it meant.

He asked: do we think she'll have him back?

So yes, he was putting his case. Ostensibly confessing his failure, and asserting that he's now doing his very best to change. No drugs. Has jobs. Accepting help.

So he was of course not so covertly asking for our approbation. As 'mums'.

He was then told he didn't have a chance with her (which I also agreed with - but he is the co parent so he does need to be in a fit state for negotiating that, for the kids' and her sake).

I didn't take issue with that. What I didn't agree with was the venom and vehemence from some posters about how he was a loser and his fledgling attempts at improvement were pathetic.

I think you and I clash on this point: I'm thinking majorly about the kids. Not him or her. (or, indeed, some odd analysis of me, based on 0 info!) ... He has a job, here: being their father. Even if at best that will be limited access, it's still better for them to have a reformed (to whatever extent that's possible) father placed appropriately in their lives (whatever that is decided to be) than for us to say he's beyond the pale and should disappear forever.

No, she's not giving him another chance. But we are supposed to give a supportive hearing.

(Oh, and btw, you're gaslighting me! 😂)

Lotte, you teamed with and made a big thing of being a rescuer to a self confessed abuser. You minimised his abuse of his partner and children. You validated his lies. You mirrored him.

You have displayed classic signs that you have not yet escaped your abusive Ex(?) partner's control. You are still in Placate mode. I urge you to get some therapy for the abuse that you have suffered and do the Freedom Programme. It will help you recognise abusive scripts, your own behaviours wrt abusers and help protect you from them in the future.

Does your ex use Mumsnet @Granadella1?

Because if so, it's a pretty shitty, self-indulgent and manipulative move to pursue her here.

And if it's not, why post here of all places?

Bit harsh

What would you have us do to all ex Junkies?

Tar and feather them?
Lock them away and throw away the key?

Is no one allowed a second chance ?
Ever ?

He had a second chance with his ExP and spectacularly blew it (no pun intended), but he is blaming her for not being committed. It doesnt help recovering addicts and their families if people collude in their denial.

What?
Of course he deserves a chance in life, to be given support to stay clean and the opportunity to work and engage in meaningful activities. But a chance to be this woman's partner again? No, he doesn't 'deserve' that chance. She may choose to give him one, that's up to her, but nothing a man can do means he 'deserves' a relationship as a reward.

Diode this isn't helpful. You're making weird assumptions about me.

I didn't pick up that he'd been very abusive. I thought he'd been difficult as a result of his addiction. And I thought it wrong that he was being so kicked and belittled for 'trying' to improve his behaviour. I really don't like this openly aggressive/superior tone on MN and I think too many get away with it.

What you've said about me is wrong, but it's also not what the thread is about. ... thanks for your intention to help though.

Codename yes totally agree

And I'm not saying he deserves a chance to be in his kids' lives. I was very explicit that he and she aren't important here: the kids deserve responsible and sane parents, and him changing his life is necessary for him to be there for them.

What weird assumptions have I made about you Lotte?