But we took you to Stately Homes" August 2019 onwards thread

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It's August 2019, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018 - May 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

She hasn't witnessed the side of them

Never has the adage "within these four walls" been more apt. It's very easy, sadly, to contain abuse and neglect within four walls of home, with everyone outside, including family, having a vastly different opinion. It's what these abusers rely on, and that as children we say nothing as it's our "normal". It's the ultimate arena for these bastards.

@SimplySteveRedux My friends all thought my step father was great and didn't believe me when I told them what he was like. Then one of them called in unexpectedly while he happened to be upstairs screaming abuse at my mother. They started listening after that.

Hi to the new posters on here, and commiserations that you have had all the various crap to put up with xx
I was off for the last few days as the old thread had ended and I didn’t get round to trying to locate the new one till now. Has been busy indeed! X

Yes, @BeBraveAndBeKind it's often so. Abuse thrives on anonymity and deception.

I hope you're doing well, @MarmadukeM , I have mixed emotions when these threads are so busy, the relief people are seeking help and realising their relationships are toxic tempered with the overwhelming sorrow so many of us have these experiences in our lives.

I have my psychiatric assessment start of the week and I am all over the place. I'm popping diazepam like candy to keep on top of the rising panic, but it feels like I'm swimming against the tide, and dangerously close to dissolving into self-harm, which I've not done for a while now.

I'm reading fastidiously, preparing, making notes. Not being believed would be a dagger to the heart, and I cannot contemplate my mental state if this happens. I detest completely the loss of control, this is going to be an extremely difficult few days.

SimplySteve I can relate to the pain, humiliation and panic of not being believed
Also the humiliation and feelings of worthlessness when you are simultaneously not believed and also told that you should just keep quiet about it anyway.
Please look after yourself, you deserve to be safe and you deserve peace.

Steve, I completely understand why the impending psychiatric assessment itself would give you the jitters. You wouldn't be human if it didn't. But please stop tearing yourself up into bits thinking you might not be believed.

This is your specialist's field of expertise. Their first task is to put you sufficiently at ease to open up and engage in the first place so that they can get a proper grasp of what is going on. They'd be no good at their job if they couldn't even achieve that simple step. After that, one of their skills lies in spotting the gap between what you are saying and what they can see for themselves is the truth. (As in, you throwing up barriers and saying "It's fine, I'm fine" when your whole body is clenched up in denial). Their other skill is in convincing you to feel safe enough to tell that truth.

They have long, long experience coaxing those who desperately want to speak up but are held back by their fragility and fear.

You need to trust. That's the hardest thing for you, isn't it? But you will be in safe hands if you can just bring yourself to offer a little trust.

You can do this, Steve. 💐 (And 🍷 - but not till afterwards!)

@SimplySteveRedux as the others have said, you will be in safe hands. I have had quite a lot of interactions with psychiatrists over the years and honestly you have nothing to fear, the facts will speak for themselves. I think when you are used to being harshly and often unfairly judged by narcissistic parent you are naturally very fearful of not being believed; and even when you are believed there’s a voice in your head telling you ‘what if I twisted that thing I told them about, misremembered, exaggerated etc etc. If you don’t mind me asking, what is the assessment for specifically? I just had a private one recently to get some advice about my treatment regime and honestly it was the best thing I could have done, money well spent. I know that really it doesn’t matter what we tell you and what you try to tell yourself, your emotions will still be overwhelming but just do what you need to do to get through to the appointment day and take it from there. Lots of love xxx

Thanks, well I've managed to get through the night without self-harming, no sleep but I can manage until the assessment on Tuesday.

You need to trust. That's the hardest thing for you, isn't it? But you will be in safe hands if you can just bring yourself to offer a little trust.

Haha, it's so obvious isn't it? I've been starting to realise more things about myself, my fear of failure, of regrets, the self sabotage, empty self-esteem and self-worth values. Life is like having a thousand little cuts every day at the moment, my body is marinating in inflammatory chemicals (Two week cancer pathway, they also suspect ulcerative colitis) and it's so very hard, almost impossible, to calm down and love and respect myself.

Sense of failure is palpable, the not being able to do what I used to (hobbies/work), to the same standard. It would destroy my self-esteem even more. So I keep taking the chicken way out and have been doing so for probably five years+.

Trust is just so hard when abuse if thrown on that fire isn't it? Don't trust men due to 2xsexual incidents and my weak, enabling, father; women because of mother.

I have cold beer and cider in the fridge for after the assessment!

@MarmadukeM It's not clear if my dx of PTSD and CPTSD are officially on my notes, even though I've been verbally given them. So that's the first part. Second is the anti-depressants the GP can supply aren't working whereas psychiatry have access to other, stronger, drugs. Third, I mentioned diazepam earlier, I get a very limited amount each month (not enough to deal with even 1/3) and GP wants to cull it, they have a very brief outline of my childhood, psych can ask for them to remain on my rx each month.

Bless all of you for your support so early on a Sunday too! (Hope you're taking things day by day @SingingLily and are ok )

@SimplySteveRedux I feel for you, honestly I do. Are you in the uk? I take pregabalin as a long term version of benzodiazepines and it’s very effective. If you are having to take regular benzodiazepines they may suggest this. At my recent consult the psychiatrist said that life is a road and some people need medication at a maintenance dose as they go through life, and when they hit bumps in the road (childbirth, bereavement, whatever) then often the meds need to be upped to help counteract this. If this is you first official visit to a psychiatrist then I am feeling very positive for you, they are the experts and this could really be the start of you getting some effective help. The whole trust thing, as I see it, is that I don’t know whether to trust myself and that’s the main problem. Which is crazy!

@SimplySteveRedux the trust comment I made was in respect of what you were saying about trusting people generally. Xx

the psychiatrist said that life is a road and some people need medication at a maintenance dose as they go through life, and when they hit bumps in the road (childbirth, bereavement, whatever) then often the meds need to be upped to help counteract this.

That's pretty much what my GP said, Marmaduke, but then again, I might just have been lucky to have such a supportive GP.

All I need right now, Steve, is permission to kill middle sister. She can't get to me so she's ripping my DSis to shreds instead. I'm currently channelling Attila, Toomuch and Herocomplex and filching all their best posts in my efforts to support and sustain DSis while Dad remains in hospital.

Already take max dose of Pregabalin.

Yep, exactly that about trust - can't/don't even trust myself.

Permission granted, go murder that bitch!

Steve

My best wishes for you re your assessment on Tuesday

Be kind to yourself

SingingLily

You will get through this but do not forget to sustain your own self too during this time.

My best wishes to you and your family

Be kind to yourself

Hello all, I feel like I’m in the wrong because none of my family want to know me really, they all get along with each other though.
My biological father was physically, sexually and emotionally abusive. The courts ordered no contact when I was 12. Anyway I know that wasn’t my fault.
However from 12 mum and step dad made me work weekends and pay board weekly, I did ok at school didn’t have many friends, none that came to the house, never went out or played loud music but I was told I was a horrible teenager constantly. At 16 Mum told me to quit my college course because I was shit and would never make anything of myself. I did quit and step dad went mad and said I had to move out.
So I’m 16, in a hostel, life goes from bad to worse and whenever I see my parents they always say how well the rest of the family at doing.
One more thing or I’ll be here all day. As an adult, I don’t drive, no intention to. My mum and brother made me buy his car. £500. I said I didn’t want it and can’t quite remember how I was forced into buying something I didn’t need or want. Mum says she’ll keep it running over until I can drive it. She doesn’t and gets it scrapped. When I ask her why she says it doesn’t work and she didn’t get any money for it. It just seems strange to me.
But I’m constantly told I’m weird, I’m on the autistic spectrum and misunderstand everything (I don’t have a diagnosis)
I’m now mid thirties and I lend them money, see them regularly, do what I can. I still get told how well everyone else is doing and still get excluded from family events (weddings/funerals/parties)
I always beat myself up because ds only has me and my parents and it’s my fault for being weird and unlovable. I see other family members photos on fb with all the kids playing together and it hurts.
So am I a weird, unlovable, ungrateful cow?

You don't sound like a weird, unlovable, ungrateful cow, @Shplot. You sound like a sane person accidentally born into a family of nutters. It is very hard indeed, especially in childhood to realise that you are normal and they are abnormal. But I'd back out now, for your own long term wellbeing. No more lending them money, no more duty visits. Take time to slowly build a 'family' of friends you can trust.

@SimplySteveRedux ah that’s a shame; hope they find a combination that works for you. Also have you had psychotherapy before? I’m starting it this week so am wondering what it will be like. Remember my parents were barked cos my DH asked them not to call him infront if the kids? Well I haven’t heard from them for 3 weeks so I finally sent a text yesterday to let them know about the kids not going to theirs after school anymore, as school starts on tuesday. Anyways I simple said (following some sound advice on here) ‘hi, just to let you know, the kids will be coming home from school on a Monday and Tuesday from now on as this suits us all best x’. 24hrs so far and radio silence! I’m wondering how this is going to play out, I really hope they don’t turn up at the school on Tuesday and claim they didn’t get the message. Wish I’d sent it on WhatsApp cos then I could’ve been 100%that they read it! Dickheads that they are 😡

@shplot, what *milliefiori" said. You sounds pretty reasonable to me - you sound like someone who has been dealt an absolutely awful hand as regards family, and you keep trying to create a loving family relationship with you, but they didn't act like loving parents to you when you were a child and they don't now.

I would recommend you read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward, particularly the sections she has on inadequate parents and verbal abusers.

@simplysteveredux if it was me in your position I'd be worrying about two things, and it would help me to separate them out - first one is will this psychiatrist believe me, and the second one is, will this psychiatrist recommend me a course of treatment that will actually help me. The first one doesn't need to matter, I mean I know why it does matter emotionally, but intellectually, this person is supposed to be qualified in understanding how people tick. If they can't see that you're telling the truth about being abused, and that it was really as bad as you say, and no there's not "truth on both sides" or whatever other weaselly shite that people use to dismiss us, if they can't understand what happened to you then they're not very good at their job. And you don't need to worry about being believed by someone that chose to devote their life to the study of people who have mental health problems and can't even recognise trauma when confronted with it. That person is not your problem.
I realise that doesn't help with needing to get treatment and so I keep my fingers crossed for you that you get better luck than that. My experience of the NHS has always been that shite and all as they might be at the lower echelons, once you talk to the actual expert, they're usually pretty good and all the bullshit falls away. (But among admins and receptionists is it just me or do a lot of them seem to have narcissistic traits? I'm sure some people go into those jobs because they enjoy being able to wield power over people. Luckily the actual doctors are usually better because it's a rare narcissist that can be arsed actually studying for five years and the stint as junior doctor etc)

Singinglily I hope you're doing OK and you and your sister are sustaining each other through this. It's amazing isn't it, they don't even notice when the big events of their life are happening, your middle sister could be spending her time with him but instead she's trying to create drama with your other sister. They can't deal with the smallest amount of normal human emotion. You have to feel sorry for them... from a distance.

Holdfast Marmaduke, you have communicated your intentions to them, you can interpret their lack of response as 'message received and understood, we have no objections to raise' and you can go about your business accordingly and in a manner of not being beholden to those bastards!

@Ulterego I like your style 😂

I've been a lurker for many years, and directed here by my posts by many of you.

I've been no contact with parents since the start of the year. This came to a head recently when the same birthday situation arose that caused the original feud. I told my DM that she was now being blocked and I would not be responding again.

Last night I came home to flowers 🙄

Marmaduke I presume that they want their silence to be experienced as a punishment (they don't have self awareness to realise that their presence is a punishment and their absence is a relief)
But you can re frame the situation and interpret their response according to what suits your agenda, and then just relentlessly carry on steamrolling your agenda over them😊

@Shplot your parents sound absolutely dreadful horrible waste of space human beings ☹️
they've treated you dreadfully, such casual and insulting indifference to your feelings and your self-esteem.
you are not in the wrong you are the only decent one, they are all shits, they have scapegoated you and tried to position you as the carrier of all the bad things

@sunshine
So sorry to hear about the situation with your mother, sounds like that's a bouquet of barbed wire masquerading as flowers? 😟

@Ulterego I know. I haven't even responded.