AIBU to feel icky about my ex showering with our DD

[beingniceiscool11]

DD (5) told me today that Daddy goes in the shower with her - he has an enclosed cubicle shower with door like mine so you’d have to be standing right next to each other.... I know he used to bathe with her when she was littler..wearing swimming trunks by the time she got to about 3 years old.
But I said oh right does he wear his swimming costume? And she smiled and said “no he doesn’t mind ! He doesn’t wear anything !” And I said oh right, really? I tried not to show my shock but perhaps it came across in my voice a bit as she then added “it’s ok, he doesn’t touch me !”

...... this has just struck me as odd. And made me feel a bit 😬
He is 6’3” and his.. well... you know would be right in her face... she’s very tactile & if she sees me walking around with my pants on she will launch herself at me for a tight bear hug and blow raspberry on my tummy and sniff my skin and really like nuzzle me.

I don’t know this just makes me feel icky.

Actually, @SinkGirl I am responding to posts (like yours tbh) that want to demonise all fathers. I actually think this kind of thing is dangerous in and of itself. For most children their father’s penis is just a body part. It doesn’t matter that he’s 6’3 or whatever (actually it does if his genitals would be in her face while showering). It’s just there and does not need to be treated like a dangerous thing.

I have also said that the issue here is not the showering or whatever, but the broader ongoing concerns the OP has with her ex’s parenting. In which case, lots of responses saying ‘it’s just WRONG. Ew.’ Etc aren’t helpful. Because the specifics of the whole situation are what matters.

How dare you? I am not demonising all fathers. I am raising concerns about this father who has a history of being abusive and manipulative. The situation, her responses and his actions mirror very closely those of my own experience of being sexually abused by my own father, as I’ve explained.

I do not believe that all fathers abuse their children. I do not believe my DH would ever abuse our children, but it has been clear from the outset that boundaries are extremely important to me (and also to him), and that being alone naked with our children is not okay. That goes for both of us.

For most children their father’s penis may just be a body part. That’s irrelevant because we are not talking generally, we are talking specifically. For you, this was true. For me it was not. Statistics are irrelevant when you’re talking about individual situations because something being uncommon doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen to individuals.

And while I don’t want to demonise all fathers, you cannot ignore the fact that almost all adults who abuse children are male, and almost all abusers are well known to the child, often a family member. You might want to gloss over this, but it’s important.

Children are entitled to boundaries too - being trapped in a bed under someone’s arm and unable to get out, unable to say what they feel, and having an adult’s genitals in their face while showering aren’t things a child should have to experience. His behaviour generally is alarming and this is part of the bigger picture.

And if other people feel it’s icky, they’re entitled to feel that way.

Men's showers include a good 'scrub', hardly appropriate for a dc to see imo! And how is she getting washed etc if he doesn't touch her?
Bizarre.

The most bizarre thing is the insinuation that men somehow require different methods of showering. I scrub myself too. Do other women just stand there meek and modest covering themselves while the water trickles down them elegantly or something? Am I a man?

Sorry OP I dont see an issue.

But scrubbing yourself within the confines of a small shower unit with another smaller person? On what planet do you think this is a good idea?

Penises are just body parts.

no they're not. They have the capacity to be far more dangerous than that where little children are concerned.

She is old enough to bathe herself. So if he is not touching her then why would he need to be in the shower with her? This is a definite red flag to me, and yes, it does seem like grooming.
Why not ask Social Services if they approve it?

Penises are just body parts

So you're alright then for any mans genitalia to be inches from your face fo mins on end.

Good for you, but please excuse other members of rhe human race who will disagree with you and think a penis close to your face is very different to an arm or a leg.

The most bizarre thing is the insinuation that men somehow require different methods of showering. I scrub myself too

I'm assuming you've never seen a man wash his dick and balls. That's rhe only explanation for such an odd post. In fact I'd have to assume you've never seen male genitalia.

Most children who are abused are hurt by a man or older boy known to them
But that doesn’t mean there’s anything inherently wrong with a child and father showering together. You can’t expect ALL fathers to avoid completely innocent nudity because SOME fathers are abusive.

Would other people feel strange about this as a concept?
As a concept it’s fine for kids and dads to get washed together. Obviously if the father is abusive or weird in some way then that’s a different issue. In this case it sounds like the issue is not “child showering with father” - it’s “child showering with abusive father who has a worrying history and the child is making worrying comments about it”.

I would never wash my boobs if my son was face to face with them in the confines of a small shower.

Well you couldn't be assuming anything further from reality bluntness. But if we are gonna go down the snotty assumption road I could say I'm assuming you simply dont wash yourself well. I scrub just the same as every man I know (and I can pretty much guarantee I see more men showering in a week than you would in a year). I just dont have floppy genitals obviously. I really dont understand why people are making out like men are paedophiles but a woman doing the same is not...

I would never wash my boobs if my son was face to face with them in the confines of a small shower

What??!!??!!

What exactly is going to happen as a result of your son seeing you wash your boobs?

TBH the simple fact that she even felt the need to mention the shower rings alarm bells for me. I know my dd would subtly sound me out by stating things that happened - it was her way of working out whether they were ok and acceptable or not - she would gauge my response to it - she was very emotionally intelligent from very young.

Just in the same way as the Mum here is confused, it seems the dd is also a little wary about the appropriateness of this - hence mentioning it to Mum.

If the dd was entirely comfortable with it, she wouldn't have even thought to mention it IMO.
The comment about he didn't touch her seems that she is actually far more aware than some of you are giving her credit for, of what this situation possibly could potentially be.
BOTTOM LINE? It's off. Most of US know it's off, the OP knows it's off and most importantly, the DD knows it's off.

As for all of you saying it's ok because 'he's her Dad FFS!!!', I suggest you read up on the stats on child sexual abuse to see who the usual perps are.............

OP, the most sensible advice I've seen you receive so far was from one poster who suggested writing an email stating that as she's now 5, she doesn't need to share beds or showers that she is no longer a baby and keeping it literally at that.

Honestly, who wants a big hairy bollocks in your face - particularly your Dad's while you're naked and vulnerable yourself. (This last are my real feelings on the matter - the former paragraphs were my 'measured' MN-appropriate being fair to Dads thoughts'.

And just to add, it just doesn't sound like the dd enjoys it/thinks nothing of it - therefore - not appropriate/not appropriate.

Why the need to dangle your dick in your little girls face, I can't fathom frankly.

OP, while I don’t think there’s anything necessarily wrong with a dad showering with a 5 yo girl, although I’d personally find it creepy, this does sound concerning. Not necessarily the showering bit as I’ve said, but your DD’s unprompted statement that ‘he doesn’t touch me.’ That really doesn’t sound like something any 5 yo I’ve ever known would say. It sounds like a rehearsed line if I’m being honest. Yes I’m probably jumping to worst case, but it would definitely be ringing alarm bells.

Can you ask for advice, NSPCC, although they seem to have oddly changed their definition of CSA, or as you’ve already suggested tell the school. It really needs referring to MASH so they can look into it.

It’s one of these things that would be difficult to prove either way, but if you’re really concerned, which it sounds like you are, and I would definitely be concerned if it was me, then you need to get it into the hands of the authorities who can investigate and deal with it. What I think you shouldn’t do is ignore it. This is one of those things that you really don’t want to ignore your instincts about, then find out later that you were right to be concerned all along.

I think if you tell the school the things you’ve said on this thread, the showering, and the logistics of that, plus the touching comment, along with the sleeping in his bed stuff, they’ll probably refer it to the MASH team anyway, or they will if they’re doing their job properly. I think these things they like to start from the position that there’s no smoke without fire and proceed on that basis. It’s better to find out there’s no fire than to ignore the smoke, iykwim.

I wouldn't feel comfortable doing this and I would presume as his parent neither would he.

Nothing is going to happen of course. However, I would feel if I did that I would be encroaching his personal space and boundaries.

I would prefer to wash my boobs, that I love and have given me much pleasure both sexually and in the feeding of my infants, in the privacy of my own washing.

I don't need to share this washing with my son.

I might however share it with my partner and have done.

It seems a lot of you ignore subtle cues from your dc. When they mention something like this, they're usually mentioning it for a reason. Just a heads up. Please don't ignore little questions or statements from your children in the name of NAMALT/being libertarian/hippy/not prudish. Sometimes the little questions or statements are the dc trying to work things out for themselves before they decide what they want for themselves. If they're concerned enough about it at 5 to mention it to Mum - that suggests to me that dd just is not entirely comfortable with the situation - innocent and all as Dad may be!

It may well be that dd doesn't feel comfortable with showering with her Dad, but otherwise loves spending time with her Dad - therefore she knows not to make a fuss about it, but at the same time her feelings should be considered.

The ideal scenario would be that he stops the showering/sleeping together thing and that she can still enjoy her time with her Dad - therefore - the simple factual email stating that it's no longer appropriate is the best course of action that I can see.

Plus he's a dick that he can't realise that it's making her uncomfortable But that's a whole 'nother thread I suspect! As you've said, she loves her Dad, so it's best you facilitate that, but not at the expense of him riding roughshod over her feelings.

Please don't ignore little questions or statements from your children in the name of NAMALT/being libertarian/hippy/not prudish

I couldn't agree more... well put.

I’d have no issues with my DH and DD showering together. I shower with my DS sometimes and sometimes we have a bath together. He’s almost 8. Sometimes it’s the only way to get him to actually have a bath! We all walk around the house naked and we have no issues or weirdness with nudity at all, well, apart from when he prods my tummy and wonders out loud if I might be having another baby!

@dragonway And that's fine for YOU. But what if your ds went to school one day and 'mentioned' to his teacher that Mummy has a bath with me but she doesn't touch me? Would you still continue to do it?

@dragonway Would you expect the teacher to mention it to you?

Also, some of you commenting are in nuclear families where Dad is living in the same home. This Mum does not live with the Dad and her dd thought fit to mention it.........

OP, apart from sending the email to the Dad, I'd probably also have a short 'innocent' chat with dd perhaps next time you're bathing dd along the lines of 'Now that you're a big girl, you can bath/shower on your own - so it's ok if you tell Dad that you want some privacy or if you tell me (Mum) that you want some privacy'. Something along those lines.... I don't know, I'm no expert, but I'd do something that simple and leave it at that with her......

That way she has the language to use 'I need privacy' and a green light from Mum to say that's ok to say. It enables and empowers her.

You've mentioned physical abuse though (my pet hate), so hopefully dickhead doesn't decide to take her break for independence out on her.

she said “no I can’t tell Daddy how I feel” and then “it’s ok Mummy I do like it !”

This child is obviously aware of the tensions between her parents and of trying to fit her behaviour to what they want (especially what Dad wants).

You say "letting her sleep in his bed" but does she want to do that, hence "letting" her, or is it his idea?

There may be nothing really untoward happening, but it looks like he's being controlling to a 5 year old. Not good.