AIBU to feel icky about my ex showering with our DD

[beingniceiscool11]

DD (5) told me today that Daddy goes in the shower with her - he has an enclosed cubicle shower with door like mine so you’d have to be standing right next to each other.... I know he used to bathe with her when she was littler..wearing swimming trunks by the time she got to about 3 years old.
But I said oh right does he wear his swimming costume? And she smiled and said “no he doesn’t mind ! He doesn’t wear anything !” And I said oh right, really? I tried not to show my shock but perhaps it came across in my voice a bit as she then added “it’s ok, he doesn’t touch me !”

...... this has just struck me as odd. And made me feel a bit 😬
He is 6’3” and his.. well... you know would be right in her face... she’s very tactile & if she sees me walking around with my pants on she will launch herself at me for a tight bear hug and blow raspberry on my tummy and sniff my skin and really like nuzzle me.

I don’t know this just makes me feel icky.

Trust your instincts. None of us here know your ex or your daughter.

If you feel uncomfortable with it then I think it's fine to just say directly to your ex that you don't want him showering with her again.

I feel for you OP. It's a tough call and I think you'd do well to speak to nspcc for advice on your concerns at this stage. It's your DDs comments that bother me but I was sexually abused as a child so I think perhaps I, like many who have had similar, are perhaps more cautious about these things.

I used to get changed with all my kids in the swimming pool family changing cubicles but that stopped when THEY felt uncomfortable. Nudity is fine in my house and bodies are just bodies but children do become self aware and naturally become shyer about their bodies. It's a part of their psychological development I think (I'd need to check sources for accuracy). This explains your squeamishness when you were growing up even though nudity was normal.

Lightsabre we're thinking the same thing!

@FizzyGreenWater I have spoken to SS about concerns about physical abuse in the last couple of months due to disclosures from DD, they said I have to take it back to court as it's not their job to get involved at that threshold, that if there is a protective parent it's is their job to take it back to court, and they only get involved when there is no protective parent to address issue in court. Solicitor says court won't take it seriously if SS aren't involved. Catch 22.

I am having a meeting with school tomorrow about the wider issues with our co-parenting that may be affecting DD anyway so I could bring it up. He wants to do mediation again, so he does want to sit in a room and discuss - but not to discuss my concerns - to pressure me to agree for him to have her for more time and longer periods of time, more days in a row. I have emailed him about wider issues trying to raise in calm and business like way, but he ignores or attacks me and my parenting, turns situation around to make me look like I'm the problem instead of addressing what I've asked him about.

It now sounds like you are looking for something to "get" him over with regards to the legal issues.
In light of this, he's very silly to shower with her, as it sounds like you are going to report it if you can.
He's wanting more time with her so you're looking for ways of stopping that happening.

@missyB1 Yes their responses re: showering with Dad would help me, as I have no other way of doing a survey around the local area to see how "the norm" this is....
It didn't happen in my childhood and would have been considered very weird. So I wanted to see what other families did, and if my "icky" feeling was MY issue... about the showering only.
There are other feelings of concern that don't concern nudity or sexual appropriateness, which I know my gut instinct is right about, and my DD has described them and I believe her. Those incidences are very clear and SS has been made aware of my concerns. I also raised this in court last time. So I didn't ask about those things.
Just because he has been abusive physically, or acted inappropriately as a child himself, it doesn't mean he is a sexual predator... so that's why I hadn't mentioned those things initially.

deydododatdodontdeydo it sounds more like she's trying to protect her daughter.

SittingAround1

I don't know, the more she posts, the less it seems about protecting her and more about getting him on "something".

@QueenofmyPrinces that was exactly my thought - it's like when I said she could tell Daddy how she feels - (about feeling uncomfortable sleeping in bed with him/ him and his gf sometimes) and she said "No I can't. Don't worry I like it !" (or words to that effect) , like she said she was uncomfortable...then when I suggested she could talk to him about it, she changed her mind and said she actually liked it ! And changed subject. Just feels odd that she wouldn't feel she could just say... "oi Daddy get your arm off me!" and whenever we co-sleep on the rare occasions we do when she's poorly, often it gets to the point where it's like 3am and she's really hot and uncomfortable and is shuffling around and I said "darling are you ok?" and she said "I want to go back in my own bed I'm too hot !" So I take her back to her own bed. She rarely will actually want to be in my bed for more than a couple hours to settle her if she's REALLY unwell.

My daughter is the same age and l, in general, I don't think there's anything wrong with 5 year olds showering with their parents but, with the limited info you've shared about him, I would feel uncomfortable too.

We have access to a private swimming pool and, when we finish we will all shower in the one (big) cubicle and whoever gets out the water with the 5 year old will be in the shower with her (we obviously take off our swimwear) and it really is no big deal if it's my husband. At home sometimes she gets in with either of us if she knows it's her shower time after. We don't hang out naked but both still happily change in front of her too.

@deydododatdodontdeydo have you read about the OP's concerns?

@Jellybeansincognito I have no problem with being naked around a 5 year old, I don't actively try to do it, but I don't avoid her seeing me naked either on purpose, I just go about my usual activities as she wonders about the house, and I get changed in my own bedroom whether she is in there or not, that's where my clothes are. I don't send her out. If she said she saw her Dad get changed I wouldn't think that was weird either.
It's the showering in a cubicle together I felt strange about.

In your situation - when mediation wasn't working and you have concerns - I'd want to consult a solicitor who was a Children's Law specialist. Unfortunately without Social Services involvement, this will involve you in expense.

www.lawsociety.org.uk/for-the-public/using-a-solicitor/quality-marks/children/

I don't know, the more she posts, the less it seems about protecting her and more about getting him on "something"

No it doesn't.

Did you read this part..?

I said she could tell Daddy how she feels - (about feeling uncomfortable sleeping in bed with him/ him and his gf sometimes) and she said "No I can't. Don't worry I like it

That is very concerning imo.

He is her dad, it’s totally fine and normal.

Fantas, you do realise some dads aren't just fine and normal. You can't dismiss concerns based on that.

I think it is very odd behaviour. Why does he do it? Have you asked him? I agree with the poster who said she would not anyone's penis right in her 5 year old DDs face.

Just feels odd that she wouldn't feel she could just say... "oi Daddy get your arm off me!" and whenever we co-sleep on the rare occasions we do when she's poorly, often it gets to the point where it's like 3am and she's really hot and uncomfortable and is shuffling around and I said "darling are you ok?" and she said "I want to go back in my own bed I'm too hot !"

It's not odd, he's a controller and she's already aware of it. As are you. Which is what this is all about - you trying to work around a coercive controller, an abuser.

But your post above is also heartening. Bottom line - as she gets older, she'll see more and more the difference between you and him. She can be herself with you. You can help this along by subtly gving her the tools to make her choice one day. She should be able to speak up to Daddy if she's uncomfortable about something. A good Daddy will listen to you. A good Daddy will want you to be happy. A good Daddy won't be angry with you for telling him how you feel. Daddy says nasty things about mummy? Well that's not nice but sometimes people don't act the way they should. We aren't going to be nasty about Daddy and you can tell me anything you want to.

You can say these things to her as she gets older - simple sentences that are just true - not dragging her over to 'your side' but standing slap bang in the centre ground and always, always telling her she has the right to stand there too, and to be listened to and respected.

Yes I read the OP, and all subsequent posts.
The main "concern" that she showers with him, that's all.

That is very concerning imo.

What part is concerning? She feels uncomfortable and says she can't tell him. Why? Because he's asleep? We have almost nothing to go on here.

I think Mumsnet is acutely aware of stranger danger but does not like to face the fact that parents may behave inappropriately.

Parenting can be about control. She is my child, my property. Therefore even though she can wash herself and happily be in her own space at night, I will shower with her/have her share my bed.

While physical play/hugs/affection etc are an important part of parenting these can be done without having your uncovered genitals right be a small child's face.

Good parenting is also about letting children know about boundaries and encouraging independence. They can choose when they want to be hugged. They can do their best to wash themselves.

Fine and normal in our house, my husband showers with our 4 year old. I used to shower with my dad when we were on holiday (camping so someone needed to be with you, can’t have the door open like at home) until aged 6 or 7. Nothing weird for us but there’s no reason to think anything of it. If you’ve got reasons to be concerned well that’s completely different, but in a normal family environment I think dad showering with daughter or mum with son is ok until about aged 6/7.

Tbh it’s all pointless speculation in our part. We don’t know all the ins and outs of it and only OP can decide there really is anything to be concerned about. I’m not going to condemn a man just for showering with his child (if I did I would have to condemn my dh and I as well). And that was the original question that OP wanted an answer about.

@deydododatdodontdeydo

He is asking for more time with her (it's currently nearly 50/50 anyway) as a means to control me/the situation/feel like he has "more" time with her than me. He uses the entirety of co-parenting to control, gaslight, carry on abuse and he doesn't and can't focus on DD's needs.

DD made this comment to me last night.

I am happy for her to have more time with him if she's happy, well adjusted and coping with the current contact well but she's not - but that's another thread.

OP, call women's aid for advice. They'll have seen all this before. Is there a teacher she's close to? Tell the school and tell her she can talk to a trusted teacher. If there are safeguarding concerns it's best to get a trusted third party involved so you don't get accused of coaching and manipulating your daughter.

Tbh I think regardless of anyone else's experiences / thoughts - if the OP is genuinely uncomfortable by it, and so is her DD, then that's the issue. Doesn't matter if it's right or wrong / innocent or not - if the mother of the child, AND the child, aren't comfortable with these situations, then they need to be addressed.

I would also be concerned about the DD sleeping in the same bed as the dad AND the girlfriend - to me, that's more strange than the showering thing.

I have baths with my DD and DS, and we have a shower over the bath, but if we had a cubicle, I wouldn't shower with them - nothing to do with nudity, it just seems uncomfortable!