AIBU to feel icky about my ex showering with our DD

[beingniceiscool11]

DD (5) told me today that Daddy goes in the shower with her - he has an enclosed cubicle shower with door like mine so you’d have to be standing right next to each other.... I know he used to bathe with her when she was littler..wearing swimming trunks by the time she got to about 3 years old.
But I said oh right does he wear his swimming costume? And she smiled and said “no he doesn’t mind ! He doesn’t wear anything !” And I said oh right, really? I tried not to show my shock but perhaps it came across in my voice a bit as she then added “it’s ok, he doesn’t touch me !”

...... this has just struck me as odd. And made me feel a bit 😬
He is 6’3” and his.. well... you know would be right in her face... she’s very tactile & if she sees me walking around with my pants on she will launch herself at me for a tight bear hug and blow raspberry on my tummy and sniff my skin and really like nuzzle me.

I don’t know this just makes me feel icky.

Penises are just body parts. They’re no more threatening of confronting or whatever than breasts. To most kids (of either sex) their dad’s penis is just another bit of his body.

Not if they’re sexually abusing you it isn’t.

Have you RTFT?

Bathing children is a boring job, just many of the boring jobs that have to be done with children such as bringing them to the endless extra curricular studies.

No one would think, oh my child is at their dance class, I could join in here and get my exercise in whilst attending this boring parent job. Or my child is playing football. I'll just join in on the field and get my exercise in instead of standing on the sidelines watching this boring match and pretending to enjoy it.

For goodness sake. Why are some folks thinking this is about general nudity in front of a child. It's clearly not. It's clearly about being in a small shower cubicle with a six foot three fathers naked genitalia inches from his daughters face.

It's about the proximity.

Seriously lack of critical thinking.

Hard to explain about private parts being private if df is happy dangling them in dd's face though...
Would not like dh doing that!! Can't imagine sharing a shower with a man washing his balls and arse tbh. Grim imo.

I think showering or bathing with a 5 year old is fine.

What isn't fine is that she purposefully said "it's ok he didn't touch me". Where the hell did that come from???

I would not be happy about this.

He may or may not be sexually abusing her, it's impossible to know from what you've said. While it's not likely, it's not at all impossible so of course it's something that is there to consider. What she said is definitely concerning. Why would she think about being touched?

However, he does sound generally emotionally abusive towards her from what you say, and there appears to be an element of that which is physical - making her be a part of him, physically - enveloping her - a general possessiveness - arms crushing in bed, in the shower right up close. Not good for her, not encouraging any independence and , most importantly, giving her a generally poor sense of physical boundaries and making her less safe. If that goes hand in hand with a desire to alienate you from her then it's worse. All of it's damaging for her.

If I were you, I would be speaking to someone, bringing up the touching comment, his background, but making it clear that I had no proof that he may be sexually abusing her and that my more concrete issues are the generally poor physical boundaries, inappropriate possessiveness, parental alienation tendencies etc. If he's taking you to court, I'd be saying that I didn't agree with more time at all and at the very least would push for some kind of joint parenting meetings where you could describe your concerns - that he should be fostering physical independece, that he should be mindful of demonstrating to her that private parts are private etc for her own sake and safety, and that most of all he needs to show to her that he is a good co-parent, no slagging off Mummy etc. All these things are important for HIS relationship with HER.

In private? I would be watching her like a hawk for any signs that he may be abusing her. It's more common than any one of us would like to think, sadly most common with a person known to the child.

@Kezza8 because my genitals are not on my stomach... and I don't encourage this (occasional) behaviour. I redirect her to a normal hug. She is sensory seeking as well so this is why her impulse is to do this.

she then added “it’s ok, he doesn’t touch me

I don't think that's weird. Won't most 5 year olds have had the talk from their parents about strangers and innapropriate touching, etc?

My DH wouldn't have been comfortable showering with our children, but I know he had to do it a few times while camping, and no one seems to have been traumatised.

Great post Fizzygreen

I shower older vulnerable adults fully clothed. I don't get wet in the process
I presume they have appropriate facilities for that, maybe a wet room with a hand held shower head. I have a glass cubicle with a fixed shower head on the wall, the floor would be soaked if I left the door open.

The showering itself I don't see as a problem and think it'd be weirder to wear a swimming costume!

However the “it’s ok, he doesn’t touch me !” comment seems very odd to me, she's only 5 and thats a very odd thing for a young child to come out with, which is where I would be having concerns...

To most kids (of either sex) their dad’s penis is just another bit of his body
Not if they’re sexually abusing you it isn’t

The OP doesn’t mention sexual abuse. It’s about whether it’s appropriate for a child to shower with a father. Which imo is fine. Sexual abuse is a whole different ball game regardless of whether it’s the father or the mother.

Actually, @SinkGirl I am responding to posts (like yours tbh) that want to demonise all fathers. I actually think this kind of thing is dangerous in and of itself. For most children their father’s penis is just a body part. It doesn’t matter that he’s 6’3 or whatever. It’s just there and does not need to be treated like a dangerous thing.

I have also said that the issue here is not the showering or whatever, but the broader ongoing concerns the OP has with her ex’s parenting. In which case, lots of responses saying ‘it’s just WRONG. Ew.’ Etc aren’t helpful. Because the specifics of the whole situation are what matters.

It’s not about whether there’s something inherently wrong or ‘icky’ about a father showering with his daughter (there just isn’t). In fact, the title of the thread really doesn’t help things at all.

Yes it is a wet room, however you have to apply shower/hair wash and yes, you use a lot of towels in the process. For the people I do this for I always am aware of their dignity. They will have this for the remainder of their life, it wont get better, and they always progress to bed washing anyway.

For a child, showering and bathing is part and parcel of growing up to be independent. I would expect wet towels as part of this learning process but I would know it will eventually not be needed.

I have showered in my swimsuit on the beach and at swimming pools. I didn't find it odd at all.

I wouldnt be happy, Everything you have said doesnt sound right.

Listen to your gut op.

My DD and her dad showered together from when she could stand until she was 7. No bath in the house, and she was too easily distracted to shower alone. Never could get the whole wash body/wash hair/brush teeth actually done within 45 minutes.

They loved their showers together... loud singing, crazy cackling, making soapy prints on the shower walls. They had shower crayons and did letters and maths too. Plus serious conversations about life. It was a sad day when I had to explain to them that it would be better to stop because other people had funny ideas about these things. They had a ‘ceremonial’ last shower, and cried.

I cried too. I know it was the right time to stop, but I was cross that my culture didn’t have enough space for this stuff to be considered normal, healthy and safe.

My mum used to say things like this and made a big thing about 'privates.' When I got to high school age, I was completely anxious around any male teachers. Horrid! He's her dad, I think you'll be putting thoughts into her head that she doesnt have to think or worry about!

This thread started out as insinuating there is something wrong with a dad showering with his 5 year old dd - which there certainly isn't in my opinion.
But of course unsurprisingly OP then brings other issues and past history into it. So now it's about a dad that showers with his dd when there are other concerns.Op you knew full well your concerns weren't just about showering so the thread was misleading really wasn't it?

I think what @FizzyGreenWater has said is great...thank you...

I have been thinking it over and trying to remember any conversations we have had... I have talked about consent with her when people have asked for a hug and she has not wanted to - I say to her you don't ever have to hug someone or kiss someone just because they ask for it, if you don't want to.
I worry though that his emotional abuse, and gaslighting of her about physical abuse in the past (that CAFCASS labelled "low level" and not a risk...) his denigrating me to her and making fun of me to her is creating a situation where he's psychologically grooming her to be dependent on him and favour him/not tell on him (again) at the very least
There are really big issues. The problem is I feel I won't be taken seriously, or worse it will be turned around on me -- him accusing me of being alienating "false accusations" and all the stuff he pulled last time, instead of just talking through it or reassuring me like a normal person would do.
CAFCASS have sided with him the past as he's so charming and "nice" and has lied so much so convincingly to them, making himself out to be the victim, and me a "bitter and controlling jealous ex" (although I left him for being abusive to me). He is just threatening me with court action now, and DD literally said this to me last night...so I feel if I bring it up now he will just say "OH ! What a coincidence ! What INTERESTING timing !!"
He's so manipulative and because cafcass sided with him before he has gotten comfortable that his lying and bullying whilst playing victim tactics work. He always pulls the lie "Oh she's got something against me so she has coached DD to say these things, she is the one damaging DD emotionally". And there's so much sensitivity about false accusations and fathers rights now that they really don't err on the side of caution. They give contact even in light of abuse. It would be more likely that DD would be taken away from me and placed in her Dad's care because he maybe would throw a big fit and accuse me of brainwashing her again HIM. Completely flipping the situation.

I know I need to speak to him or someone about this but I don't know how to word it or how to approach it. I don't want DD to suffer if I have told him what she's said and he will panic so whether anything happened that is abusive or not, he will relentlessly question her about it/ brainwash her manipulate her, so then she won't feel she can tell me stuff in future again.

All those saying it’s fine and would you object if it was obviously have never worked in Childprotection.
Most children who are abused are hurt by a man or older boy known to them.
Before everyone piles on yes of course most men don’t abuse children but it’s tone deaf to pretend it never happens.

I've managed to shower my DS in a small cubicle by standing outside fully dressed from when he was three.

He holds the shower head as he doesn't like it spraying on his face or head. He rinses himself, points it at the wall, then I get the sponge and soap and give him a scrub all over. I shut the door and he rinses the soap off. For hair we do a handover, a folded washcloth for his eyes, I take the showerhead and rinse, hand it back to him, shampoo then he takes the washcloth for his eyes and I take the showerhead again and rinse the shampoo out. Face and ears get a scrub with the washcloth and then I shut the door, he plays with his toys and the shower for a few more minutes until it's time to get out and dry off.

So it can be done without getting into the cubicle with them.

I would be concerned - particularly given her strange response and I'd be very watchful. And not entirely comfortable.

@missyB1 I was not misleading anyone... I'm not going to type out the entire history... This thread is about 1 thing that DD said last night. Then as I've been thinking over I have thought to mention a bit more context. I'm not going to just spill my guts - if I wrote a long post with all details and every thought I've ever possibly had or every weird thing about him or abusive thing about him that has ever happened, then it would be too much for anyone to read.

I was just doing a temp check - is it a done thing/ok thing??? Would other people feel strange about this as a concept ??? That is what I was trying to gauge so I could think over it (taking into to account the wider context and past as well).

I can't see an issue here at all. I sometimes get in the shower (naked) with my 3yo DS we're getting clean that's all.

She probably likes sharing that time with her dad. This is completely your hang up.

No you absolutely shouldn't bring it up with him.

NSPCC?

HV?

School?

GP?

CAFCASS is a problem, but here your approach would be to be steadfast in saying no, I do not want her contact with her father restricted. I want him to be able to show willingness to meet in a neutral, supervised setting so that I can speak to him about my concerns regarding us being on the same page re teaching appropriate physical boundaries, supportive co-parenting and absolutely no parental alienation. And you keep saying it. Because that is what you want.

Would talking to social services be an option? - where you could highlight your concerns re CAFCASS and make the point that while he is being combative, you simply want to improve co-parenting and for him to listen to concerns around DD.

For a lot of people it's not an okay thing. The easiest way to give you ex the opportunity to stop is to point out that if your daughter starts talking at school about showering with her Dad, seeing his penis etc - and a teacher is made aware of this, it instantly becomes a safeguarding issue - which will impact on your daughter. People will need to talk to her and this will make her anxious and upset.

For his own protection he needs to stop doing this. If he is unwilling to do so, then it becomes apparent that his rights and his views take precedence over a concern for your daughter's welfare and well-being.