AIBU to feel icky about my ex showering with our DD

[beingniceiscool11]

DD (5) told me today that Daddy goes in the shower with her - he has an enclosed cubicle shower with door like mine so you’d have to be standing right next to each other.... I know he used to bathe with her when she was littler..wearing swimming trunks by the time she got to about 3 years old.
But I said oh right does he wear his swimming costume? And she smiled and said “no he doesn’t mind ! He doesn’t wear anything !” And I said oh right, really? I tried not to show my shock but perhaps it came across in my voice a bit as she then added “it’s ok, he doesn’t touch me !”

...... this has just struck me as odd. And made me feel a bit 😬
He is 6’3” and his.. well... you know would be right in her face... she’s very tactile & if she sees me walking around with my pants on she will launch herself at me for a tight bear hug and blow raspberry on my tummy and sniff my skin and really like nuzzle me.

I don’t know this just makes me feel icky.

But the pint I was making is that your question wasn't in context was it? Because without any other factors being taken into account it's a perfectly innocent act - but not necessarily so innocent if there is concerning history. So opinions on just showering with a 5 year old were never going to really help.

I wouldn't be comfortable with this. Apart from the fact there is absolutely no need for it. He can be in the room while she showers to make sure she is safe but no need to get in shower naked with her.

Showering with a child is not strange in my opinion. I still bath and shower with my 5 year old, as does my husband. We are quite open about nudity though so our 5 year old seeing us naked is nothing strange to him.

The "he doesn't touch me" comment may be concerning - I would want to know where those words have come from.

We are very open with our 5 year old about boundaries and touching and kissing etc, he knows about the pants rule, but I still can't picture him saying something like that as it shows quite an adult level of comprehension and understanding. Why would she have assumed that you'd be wondering if he touched her inappropriately - why would that thought even enter head in order to offer you reassurances?

I always say trust your instincts when it comes to things like this.

@Ghanagirl Actually overgeneralising from abusive situations is quite dangerous. No one is denying that abuse actually happens. Or that it’s dreadful.

But insisting that there’s something intrinsically wrong with a father showering with a child is deeply problematic. As is insisting that penises should automatically be treated as if they are damaging in and of themselves.

It actually becomes harder to recognise abuse when people are so busy insisting that everything is dangerous and problematic. And it creates all sorts of unnecessary anxieties around bodies and behaviours that may be damaging to everyone.

You may not have intended to mislead, OP. But this was not a useful way to approach your particular issue. It really doesn’t matter where people stand on issues around nudity in families (that will always be personal and hugely variable) if you’re worried that your ex is abusing your daughter.

Deeply uncomfortable just reading that. Completely inappropriate and I would be telling him so.

She is only five, he isn't likely to be doing it for much longer. I doubt he thinks anything of it. However I'm now feeling a bit 'odd' about it, mainly because the op has put doubts in my head.

I bathed and showered with my son until he was about eight, never thought twice about it. There were no sexual connotations, far from it. Maybe it is different with mums, I don't know.

My husband showers with my daughter and son and all the time- daughter is 4, son 2. I don’t see an issue with it at all, if your daughter wasn’t comfortable with it I’m sure she would say- kids have no boundaries when it comes to truth telling haha.

It would only be an issue for me if your daughter was expressing discomfort and he still did it.

I'd be unhappy about the sleeping situation too, your DH is obviously fine with nudity, are you aware of what they have on when your DD is in bed with them OP?

I don't think this is right. I showered with my son at that age, (swimming and so on) but I am sure I would have felt it wasn't appropriate with a daughter of the same age.

The easiest way to give you ex the opportunity to stop is to point out that if your daughter starts talking at school about showering with her Dad, seeing his penis etc - and a teacher is made aware of this, it instantly becomes a safeguarding issue - which will impact on your daughter.

A child seeing her father naked should not instantly become a safeguarding issue.

It is really dangerous to start making perfectly ordinary and entirely innocuous behaviour into Safeguarding Issues. Breeding distrust of all fathers does not help anyone. Nor does creating a culture of fear around bodies in general.

We can teach children about their own bodily autonomy without doing any of this. And we can train the people who work with children to actually think rather than have a knee jerk reaction to any mention of make nudity.

I think it’s worse op that you have such a naked body issue you find fault in being naked around a 5 year old.

This is completely your hang up.

No it isn't. Stop with this 'prudish' nonsense. This is a serious issue and please do not dismiss it with such awful statements.

@Jellybeansincognito kids most definitely do NOT always feel able to tell the truth in situations where they have been groomed and that is the crux of this thread - the OP is concerned that this might be the case (based on her update) and therefore your jolly assertion that all will be well in lala land is a bit disingenuous.

I feel like the trunks make it worse somehow, like it’s telling her there’s something wrong with nudity. My daughters bathe and shower both with me and their Dad and my parents and sister if they’re looking after them.... just as me and my sister did with our parents (and grandparents).

This wouldn’t bother me but I guess only you know what’s normal in your family.

However I'm now feeling a bit 'odd' about it, mainly because the op has put doubts in my head.

This is really sad to hear. As was the post from a PP who felt that she had to stop perfectly innocent showering between father and daughter because she was worried about other people’s attitudes.

You haven’t (and aren’t) doing anything wrong.

Exactly. In a normal family dynamic, there shouldn't be any issue, but the OP is not in a normal family dynamic. Hence the concern!

Totally agree with Bluntness. All the parents saying 'It's fine, I shower with my kids...' You're putting yourselves in the dad's position, so of course it's fine. Now put yourselves in that little girl's position - because if I had been inches away and at eye level from my dad's cock and balls since I was old enough to remember it, I would never forget it. It's weird.

It's weird how she mentioned about him not touching her. I don't think in her little mind she feels totally comfortable if she has to explain it like this and make this point.

This is completely your hang up

Have you read the full thread?

You should be ashamed of yourself for belittling a mother who feels uncomfortable about a situation her DD was put in.

I still have baths/showers with my 7 year old son ...

Thanks for all responses. I was trying to gauge whether other families did this ... It's so nice to hear about @Skittlesandbeer family fun showers... I think this is great. It's the tiny shower cubicle, past things that made me feel uncomfortable - my gut feeling - but then again I don't want to be projecting my fears onto her !

From what DD said, if she was scared of the shower door being closed, he may have gone in there with her to show her it was ok, but why get fully naked? And why would it be a regular thing if it doesn't need to be. Just poor boundaries at the very least.

She can wash herself.. doesn't need her hair washed a lot - she usually has baths not showers anyway.

I have always joined in with her when she talks about willys and "Boys have willys ! " and stuff I will say "yeah ! " and just match her enthusiasm or curiosity about the subject without making it a bad thing. I think it's important to talk to children about consent whilst letting them have their own ideas and feelings about body parts and nudity... I've never shamed her for being naked herself or been shy to be naked around her, I just keep boundaries, to be safe and responsible, to let her learn that private parts are only for the person that owns them to touch ! Which I am pretty sure I have said this to her in joking in the past.

But I also grew up where my best friend's sister was sexually abused by her stepdad and I also was a shy little girl who was embarrassed by seeing my own Dad naked and still have like ughhh memories of it now as he was very liberal, and my parent's hippy friend's at festivals sometimes I saw, but no-one ever asked me how I felt about the grownups being naked and whether I would rather not see. Or gave me a choice...

My family wasn't very tactile or affectionate so YES I would have felt very strange at 5 years old to be having a shower with my Dad... it would have been completely out of the norm. But maybe he has made it normal for her... but is this right/ healthy past a certain age for a grown man on his own...whether it's his daughter or not, it doesn't teach boundaries around private parts or what is appropriate or not. If a man who wasn't her father showed her his penis maybe she would think it was ok, or normalise going past social norms of touching or closeness with an older male person !!!? If he hasn't had this conversation with her...

The other overly-enmeshed elements, lack of boundaries, lack of encouraging independence in their relationship worries me as a wider issue. But as other people have said there is no way of knowing if anything abusive has happened. But I certainly feel that given everything it's a bit inappropriate and he needs to be mindful ... I know I need to speak to him or someone..

kids have no boundaries when it comes to truth telling haha

I don't know why you added the 'haha'. It's not actually funny. Not is it correct...abused children very often don't tell anyone and in general children often don't express the fact they feel uncomfortable because they fear upsetting a parent.

In writing to him.

She is 5yo now, not a baby any more. The time for sharing beds or bathtime is past. Obviously she will need supervision washing and brushing teeth etc but is too big to share a shower cubicle and ought to be in her own bed at night. Obviously if any of this is a problem due to lack of resources you are happy to facilitate increased overnights at your house until this is resolved.

Be very blunt, don't explain or get drawn into semantics. This is how you parent this is what will happen from now on.

If you do this as an email you can forward it to anyone you need to and he will hopefully respond the same way so you have a record of it.

If it carries on after that then you know you have a problem. If he comes back to you and asks why you repeat that she is 5yo and not a baby now and obviously has expressed discomfort (but let's not make a big deal let's just recognise she isn't a baby any more). No other justification required.

Take control of the situation. If you can't then seek professional help.

Listen to your instinct -it's very rarely wrong. Maybe you could phone Childline or another advice service on how to approach this issue with your ex. You are doing a good job of continuing to discuss boundaries with your daughter - keep reinforcing that.