"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[toomuchtooold]

It's May 2019, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018-May 2019
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I stumbled across this thread at pretty much the exact moment I began to rethink about how I was treated as a child by my mother. Since finding this thread I've constantly gone back and forth thinking shall I post or not? I think having spent so long pushing all this negativity so
deep deep down I think this could be a good place to put it out there and let it go.

I've recently become a mother to a beautiful DD. She is my entire world and I honestly just feel so incredibly blessed to be her mum. With these feelings I've started to reflect on my relationship with my own mother and I'm now remembering things and thinking how could anyone be so cruel to their own child.

Although not physically abusive, and I'm sure many have suffered far more, my mother has always been emotionally abusive. One thing she would constantly dig at is my weight and appearance. Some examples would be;

Once after going to a ballet show with my paternal GM I told my mother how much I would love to do ballet. Her response was "you're too fat to be a ballet dancer, you could be a roly poly maybe?" I was about eight and average size. For those who don't know the roly polys were a dance troupe of morbidly obese women.

Around the same age she once said "people with your body shape have heart attacks"

At about 17 I had a pair of Levi's I didn't fit into and I asked if she'd like them, as she put them on she said "oh I haven't worn jeans this huge since I was pregnant". I think they were probably size 12.

These are a selection of hundreds of comments and unsurprisingly, I now have zero self esteem when it comes to my appearance. I just cannot even fathom saying this to my daughter. Or anyone, who has any right to make such horrible comments about someone else's appearance.

My Mother's entire world revolved around her sex life. She would constantly go on and on about sex and randomly take me to meet some boyfriend of hers despite her still being in an active marriage to DF. I remember a friend of mine telling me about how a man gives a lady a special hug and a seed makes a baby and at that point I already knew what a blow job was. This must have been while I was in infants school.

My mother would make no effort whatsoever to be discreet while having sex and would scream the house down. Even though my younger sibling shared her room. It was vile. I think about it and I want to be sick.

She got into financial bother in my mid teens and rather than just do something normal like a payment plan she decided to start escorting. God knows why, but she felt I must know this and she stood there basically telling me all about it and how great it had been. To this day I remember her exactly as she stood there and I just think what a piece of shit mother.

She will also just decide to change fact. Once she randomly said to me "you can't wear contacts because of your astigmatism, you have those sticking out eyes." I don't. I don't have the slightest bit of astigmatism.

Or she recalls situations completely differently to how they happened which if they have been traumatic it's just one more big punch in the face that invalidated anything I may feel about it.

Through my 20s she has done much "making up" giving me money and taking me for days out but there will still be some comment about my looks. Or some completely false recollection of past traumas show she has little if no comprehension of how bad it all was.

A colleague was mentioning her morning breakfast routine with her kids and how she does her daughters hair every day before school, her daughter is 11. As she was talking I was reminded of a time when my mother screamed at me "why do you have to be such a miserable little bitch in the morning". I still remember crying my eyes out and my DF walking me to my infant school. That was our lovely morning routine.

I really had buried this anger and hatred so deep and just "got on" for the sake of it. But I think once you've had your own child it's impossible to accept your own mother fell so short of being a good parent.

During my recent pregnancy she was pretty much abysmal. She just fixated on something bad either happening to me or the baby. She was constantly say "I'm so worried so many bad things happen during child birth". It was so unhelpful in the end I just tuned her out.

I apologise for just spilling all this out but just to write this down I feel so much lighter. I want to leave all of this pain and spend the rest of my life being a great mother to my child. Thank you for making this thread.

P.s. I won an award for dance, achieved 100/100 for my choreography coursework and an over all A grade. So, fuck you mum.

richtea
First of all that was a brave thing, writing down those things is so painful. You deserved to have your hair done and go to school happy. You deserved to be loved, protected and celebrated. I’m so happy you have a lovely dd, by the way, congratulations.
Your mother was wrong. She made terrible choices and they were nothing to do with you.

Attila and toomuch
DBil has just lost his own Dad, and really looked up to his FiL (my Dad) so it’s a bad time for him. Up until the weekend I’ve always taken the same view, it’s better to try to fix it/manage it because we’re a family. My DBil thinks my Dad is just a victim too, but he’s not, he’s enabled all of this.
I’m learning and understanding all the time about NPD, but it’s a slow process to get to the point where it all boils down to this situation just doesn’t work for me anymore
My DSis and I have had a long convo about how they’ve always dropped things in our ears to keep things resentful or guilty between us, the scales are falling from our eyes. In the past I’ve tried to resist listening to them or defended her but this was met with an accusation of taking sides or a nasty comment about being superior in knowledge (you don’t know everything).
Our DC’s will be forewarned, a few are doing really important exams so not the best time.
A mess.

Sorry toomuch, forgot to say no, I haven’t posted anywhere else about this. It feels kind of safe here, thanks to all of you

Richteabiscuit, I'm so so sorry for what your mother has put you through. The constant chipping away at your confidence and self esteem, the constant and inappropriate competitiveness with you, the sexually inappropriate behaviour (especially in a bedroom shared with your younger sibling - that is truly shocking), the financial irresponsibility, the gaslighting and rewriting of history - these are the classic signs of a narcissist. No wonder you are struggling with so many strong and negative feelings. She's put you through the mill, and then some.

You will have seen the reference at the top of this thread to a website called Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers - it's an eye-opener because it talks about the very behaviours that you unfortunately had to deal with and so it's well worth a look. In the meantime, I'm so glad you've found this thread. It's been a huge support for me and I hope it proves the same for you. Please don't ever apologise for spilling things out on here - we've all done it and that's what it's here for. 💐

Thank you so much for your replies singing and hero. It means so much to me. I am sorry we are all here and identify with the thread but I'm also very glad this thread exists!

I will most certainly check out the website. It is hugely comforting that I'm clearly not the only one!

Attila yes, they could do that, my M suggests she’s going to pay for things for them but it’s never happened, I’ve always felt they were just grandiose statements made for show. She’s very fond of telling people what they’ve achieved so it’s going to be a struggle for her not to have that in her life. She’s also fond of comparing the girl’s weights, and asking them why they haven’t got boyfriends...

I haven't posted for ages, nothing has changed I still can't remember much of the past, but based on what I can I have developed a low contact relationship with my mum. This has worked really well for me.

Something has just happened which has scared me, had to get up to DC, got back into bed (decorating bedroom so pushed up against the wall) climbing over DH gracefully. Laid back down and panic, feeling of claustrophobia. I had to leave and come downstairs. The feeling has passed now, thinking back I have felt this before but not a strongly.

The sense of not knowing again is at the forefront of my mind and the level of emotion tied to it really scares me. I am crying, it will go back in the box and I will feel better again.

RichTeabiscut123
Well done you ! The best revenge is succeeding at your own life and showing through all the abuse you rose above it 😊. Takes a very strong soul to manage that and it sounds like you’ve nailed it !!

starsearching that’s sounds quite terrifying, hope you’re feeling calmer now? Putting things back in boxes is hard, you know they’re there. Can you talk to your DP about it? It’s an awful time of the night to feel like that. Hope you can have a peaceful day today.

Hello all. I was a regular on here many moons ago but an extended family member worked out who I was, so obviously I've name changed and have been off the thread for years.

I've been NC with my dad (abusive in every way inc sexually) for over 30 years. I've been NC with my mum (emotionally abusive as well as blaming me for breaking up her marriage LOL) for about 4 years.

Recently my mum has tried some really weird shit to try to get in touch with me, so I changed my phone number and haven't given it to any family members.

I hope it's okay to be posting here. I don't have decisions to make. I'm thoroughly NC with all parents!

Hi Furious welcome back, nice to meet you.
You’re NC, whatever anybody else tries to do or say, you’re NC. And that’s your rule and your decision.

Hi, I have read these threads for a very long time. I hope it is ok to post even though I'm sure this is going to be a bit jumbled and not make much sense. I just need to get it out.

My childhood was full of emotional abuse by my mother and also physical. I was vey neglected- summer holidays would mean being locked in the house for 6 weeks witing for school to start, looked after by older brother but not leaving the house or even going in garden. I got the worst as the only girl with 3 brothers. There was sexual abuse at 3 by father that is so hazy in my mind now I can't even what happened. That split my M and F up as she thrown him out when I told on him. They had a hideous relationship with lots of domestic violence that I witnessed. My mum would get drunk and bring friend/sisters into my room at night, wake me up to make me tell them what my F had done to me then say "good girl, back to sleep" whilst they all stood around my bed calling him a bastard etc then would go back downstairs.

Growing up, M was very controlling and stole my life really. I was always made to feel that I was wrong for having friends etc. My older brother had a hard childhood/teen years as my F was not his biological dad and would threaten to kill him and all sorts of horrid things my M apparently knew nothing about.

I left home at 18 as I couldn't wait to get away. In the years before I left home eldest brother had tuned into an alcoholic and tore our lives apart with lies and deceit. I went on to have my own children who M was a good GM for. Only I didn't realise that I was taking all the put downs of her telling the kids I'm not good enough, don't give them what they want like she does etc. I have been walking on egg shells for years of not questioning why she constantly undermines me to the kids, as this would mean she would walk out on us and give me the silent treatment for months. For the last 10 years my eldest brother has repeatedly took overdoses, drink driving charges, found in ditches etc. I went NC with him about a year ago when he turned violent and abusive on his then partner who did nothing but support him, he became really volatile to me and my children saying we are nothing to hiM and also very violent to both my mum and younger brothers. All my life I have just tried to help him. I have just supported my mum through having cancer, she now has the all clear but does have poor health.

2 weeks ago she walked out of my house screaming at me how terrible I am because I asked her not to give one of my children more than the other (she gave one 2 packs of crisp and the other 1). One child has autism, she won't listen to me particularly with the disable child and plays into the obsessiveness so that things are harder for me and I get the backlash when I try to distract him from things she has got his worked up about. Even if I try to explain we do things a certain way as instructed by therapists/Drs she will sabotage it all and say I'm miserable and she'll do what she wants.

I haven't heard from her since. Last night my younger brother text me to say he didn't want to leave me out of the loop but eldest brother has took fatal overdose. He had to be resuscitated a few times. They didn't know if he would survive the night but the update is- the doctor said he doesn't know if he will survive, if he does he may have extensive brain damage. He is being kept in a coma for a few days as he can't stop fitting and they really don't know at this point what life he would have if he survives.

My mum hasn't rang me once, she has instructed younger brother to text me all this. My head is a mess, I can't stop crying and I just don't know what to do. I have done nothing wrong and yet she won't speak to me or answer the phone as usual.

Not sure if I should even be on here. Always had a rocky relationship with my mum.
My ds is 2nd yr university but hasn't managed to find a placement for next year. His back up plan is to go full time at maccies.
My mum has heard this and has taken a friend of hers (1 yr older than me) because they are horrified that he would work at maccies as it isn't a proper job. Their idea is that he should not do placement yr so join uni class without all his friends quit the job and this friend will support him.
Another ideas was living back with me working for free and I give him pocket money.
He is not sure about no contact, and I've realised that despite thinking I wasn't in fog am really deep in it

imaslaveto3 that sounds horrendous, I'm sorry you experienced it all. Do you want to see your elder brother? Do you want to maintain contact with your younger brother? It reads like your mother has made you believe that you are so awful she cannot even bring herself to talk to you at this awful time. You've done nothing wrong.

peach I'm not sure I've understood. Is your mother trying to undermine you by encouraging your DS to quit uni? Sounds like he's on to her.

As for me... I have agreed to go to DMs for lunch tomorrow, with DP and DS. Apart from last night when exhaustion won, I have been awake in the early hours worrying about it. I just feel like I can't take another comment or Poor Me. I should rip the plaster off and go NC. I just don't have the guts.

My mothers plan is not to quit uni but to skip his placement year and go straight to final uni year (his friendship group are all taking the placement year, with a 50/50 split regarding who has placements and who doesn't).
He would then quit the part time job his has at maccies at the minute and my mum's friend would completely support him.
Mother's friend is horrified that he works at maccies because in her view it's not a proper job and when he gets a girlfriend they will be ashamed of him because he spent his placement year at maccies.

Friend flew in from abroad, heard that he will work at maccies fulltime if he cant get a placement and all hell let loose. My parents and the friends drove the 2.5 hrs to his uni to talk to him. I didn't know any of this until they were already enroute.

I told him to take a friend but when they returned to his student house my dad trapped friend in dining room and friend and my mum trapped in my son in living room and talked at him, using tears etc, for 2hrs. Son said to escape them he'd think about it but he has had since then 3 messages and an email full of emotional blackmail from my mum.

• visit was planned to see my mum arrived on Wednesday, heard about my son's plans via my mum, my parents only knew his plans on the Wednesday, Thursday was the sudden trip to uni town.

@dalecooperscoffeecup hope your lunch was ok. I am seeing my mother for lunch tomorrow. not looking forward to it

Thanks Closed. The usual subtle guilt trip about not immediately handing over my child 🙄

dalecooperscoffeecup

Feign illness. None of you should be meeting your mother. This invite seems more akin to a summons. She was not a good parent to you when you were growing up and she sure is not a good grandmother to your child now.

peach

You belong here.

Anyone is welcome to write and or post on this thread.

How are both your son and you today?. You are both going to have to block these people properly from your lives now because they will continue to try and ride roughshod over you both otherwise. FOG is all too real here.

Not surprised at all to see that you have always had a rocky relationship with your mother. What your parents and their flying monkey friend have done here re your son is utterly appalling. Where are these people now?.

Your son really does need to block all of these people both online and from ever returning to his student house. Their actions really do amount to harassment and I would certainly inform the university about them too.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but your son's friend would have really stood no chance either against such an emotional onslaught by these three. Therefore I am nor surprised that he was collared by your dad in the way he was. Your son's only chance would have been not to be in the house at all. As he was there, his only real option would have been to call the Police re their harrassment.

Who is this bloody family friend of theirs anyway aka their flying monkey?. This person has been all too easily manipulated into doing your parents bidding but it has nothing to do with him/her let alone anything to do with financially supporting your son. This person's opinion should certainly be ignored by you also because they are not interested in hearing your side of things. Besides which this person talks utter rot and BS, all this about the girlfriend being ashamed that he spent his placement year in Mcds. This is also a person whom your son should not have to see at all.

What are you going to do about these people going forward as they have now messed further in your son's life too?. What does your son want to do re his course?. It goes without saying that neither of you should at all give into your parents and their pet aka flying monkey here.

I presume your abusive parents (and that is what they are) have acted like this because it looks bad on them and their image to portray to the outside world that their grandson (aka someone else to pick up and otherwise discard as and when they feel like it)could be working at McDs full time. There is NOTHING wrong whatsoever with working at Mcds whilst at uni; it is good honest employment.

imaslave

Its not you, its your mother. She was not a good parent (and that is a total understatement) to you when you were growing up and she has not fundamentally altered since your own childhood. Its not your fault she is like this and you did not make her that way. It is not possible to have a relationship with someone as disordered of thinking as your mother is, it really is not.

Please keep her away from your children; you and they should really not be seeing her now. She will simply do them harm just as you have been harmed by her too. You get nothing positive out a relationship with her and she should not see you or your children now.

Do you want to still receive any communiques from your younger brother?. How are relations between you and he these days?.

I would seek information directly from the hospital re your elder brother if you want to. You should not feel under any obligation to do that however if you do not want to. Sadly too you cannot help anyone who does not want to be helped, your enabling behaviours only gave you a false sense of control so did not help. You cannot help anyone who does not want to be helped or saved.

Do not contact your mother at all; she is really not worth any of your tears and she is not crying for you. As you rightly say yourself, you have done nothing wrong here.

You can help your own self and I would seek help from NAPAC re your own childhood napac.org.uk/if you have not already contacted them.

peach
Sounds so horrible.
The money from the friend instead of working is a terrible idea - it will come with strings attached. It’s about control not funding.
Working for a living if you can is always good, future employers like to see that you are willing to get stuck in.

Had an awful night being verbally and emotionally abused by my toxic mother. I went to take her for lunch and we had a disagreement about her cannibas use that made me walk out... since 3pm I've been getting verbal abuse from her first via text which I blocked her number so she moved on to WhatsApp then snapchat then Facebook messenger and the emailing me lots of abuse calling me everything and threatening to tell my work about my mental health issues etc. Shes even contacted my 12 year old niece and told her all sorts of horrible things about me saying she wont talk to her if she is in contact with me etc. I'm so emotionally drained and cant stop crying. I keep blocking her but she just finds new ways to reach me, recently through my niece. My mum has always been a violent alcoholic and drug user but I stupidly thought she was getting better until today. I dont know what to do. I feel so upset and alone. My older sister hasn't spoken to her in months because of the venomous abuse she subjects us to every time she is drunk but today has been constant. I'm so drained. This is why I rarely stand up to her. I need to find the strength to keep her out my life for good this time but last time we were estranged for a year the police were contacting me etc because she was having a psychotic break. Theres no one else to control her or look after her when she is a drunken mess so it always falls to me!

Cat

Its not your fault your mother is like this and you did not make her that way. Her own parents did that to her.

Its hard being the "last one left" but your mother is really dragging you down with her into her pit. You can only help your own self ultimately and you really do need to stop being her emotional punchbag, the person of last resort and verbal dumping ground.

Your enabling behaviours towards her have only given you a false sense of control and enabling someone this disordered of thinking never ever works. Your mother will never apologise nor take any responsibility for her actions. She also taught you how to be codependent also and this does you no good either. Let the authorities deal with her, tell such people forcefully that you are done with your mother and are saying no more to being abused by her. The sky will not fall in if you walk away from your so called mother here.

You need to do what your eldest sister has done here i.e have nothing whatsoever to do with her and stick to this like glue.
Help your own self; seek support for your own self from the likes of Al-anon. Read about codependent behaviours and unlearn all of the rubbish.