Horrible row with DH in front of the kids

[cocomocha]

This is long, sorry. NC for this, regular poster though. I am feeling really really low right now and confused and anxious. Today I had a horrible fight with my husband and ended up hitting him in the car in front of our children. I’ve been feeling sick ever since. It started because he brought up the issue of finances and was saying that we need to do a budget as he’s skint every month. For context I’ve recently returned to work after ML. But haven’t received a full months wages yet. So things are tight. I only work PT so yes he pays more bills than me but I’m not spending anything on myself and still I’m short at the end of each month. So I’m feeling under pressure to earn more when I’m struggling with sleep deprivation (baby is 10 months and still not a great sleeper) and lack of confidence to look for another job or aim for promotion. I’m also studying part time so have coursework to finish. So I’m feeling really stressed and under pressure in general and having the usual guilt about leaving baby to work etc. So I didn’t really want to have the conversation with him right then and just asked if he needs me to contribute more as that seemed to be what he was driving at. Well then he just flew off the handle at me saying I don’t ever want to discuss important things and just can’t deal with the big issues and all the pressure is on him etc. So I started crying through tiredness and he carries on laying into me calling me a hormonal psycho and saying I am upsetting the kids. He also said he wants my bank account details so he can look at what I’m spending on. And when I said no I’m not happy with this he got offended and said I should be open about things. I do have access to his but only because it shows up
With the joint account, I have no interest in looking through his statements! He’s shouting at me in the car park and I’m just crying so I try to walk away but the 4 year old wants to come with me. I’m a wreck so just want to go home and he’s still attacking me and calling me a psycho. So we drive off and I tried to talk to him but he’s adamant that I had a tone when he asked about finances and I’m trying to explain but it’s like he just hates me, no kindness or caring, he just won’t listen to anything I say he’s just in a rage calling me all sorts and saying I’m hormonal and have MH issues (I suffer a little with anxiety). So that’s when I hit him and I feel awful about it as the kids were in the car. And now I just don’t know who’s wrong or right or how I feel or how to move forward. It all seems so bleak.

Jess,

It is incredibly easy to be black and white about this, but not very useful. Details do matter here and if a 6 foot guy is aggressively and scarily shouting at a woman and she hits his arm in frustration that just is not ‘abusive’. Abuse implies someone is frightened or hurt.

Now maybe he was and maybe he is 5’3 and the OP is a 6’ master of martial arts. But that is unlikely.

When someone has come on for advice on a distressing personal matter and there are children involved. applying a catch-all formula without caring about what actually happened is not useful.

A poster is telling you her mother abused her father and her. And you are telling her it didnt happen.

Yes, I am quite offended by this. Yet again Bertrand has posted on this thread, still ignoring that I have a direct experience of what she says never happens. The fact that she is choosing to ignore it says it all really, doesn't it?

larrygrylls she hit him because she didnt want to have the converstation about setting a budget.

She hit him in a loving vehicle with their kids in the back. That's also abusing the kids. Kids witnessing this mess is abuse too. And there was a danger to their safety.

They are some of the facts too.

And no, it doesnt matter how tall he is or how much it hurt. Would you tell a woman it was ok because her partner only hit her lightly, and he is quite small built and he was just frustrated?

You’re basically saying that regular posters are excusing the op.

You’re painting yourself as the one who’s sensible, level headed etc etc - one of the non-regular posters who come along and set the record straight about how things should be. If only everyone could think like you, and interpret it the “right” way.

MN is not like real life actually because it isn’t a cross section of whole society. Only if those who chose to use an Internet forum.

But neither is it a hive mind.

So yes some posters have said some things, others have said others. Some may have exhibited double standards and some - most actually - haven’t.

Personally I think hitting is wrong, but I’m not jumping to a conclusion that the OP is abusive. That’s ridiculous and quite a leap to make.

When someone has come on for advice on a distressing personal matter and there are children involved. applying a catch-all formula without caring about what actually happened is not useful.

Actually, if people stopped excusing abusers and making loop holes to excuse their behaviour and victim blame, maybe just maybe abusers wouldn't be so confident they will get away with it.

What's not useful is telling her its kot her fault, she is tired, emotional, hormonal, he drove her to it.

He called her a hormonal psycho - screaming at her. He’s just as bad!!!

An adult physically hitting another adult is abuse. There's never an excuse for it ever regardless of gender. Doing it in front of children makes the situation even worse.

Screaming names at an adult is verbal abuse.

Neither parties come out great here.

Verbal abuse can be a crime. Hitting them actually is. That’s the difference.

You’re basically saying that regular posters are excusing the op

No. I am saying that some regular posters on here have turned a blind eye to victim blaming when they would have challenged it in a heart beat, if the person being hit was a woman.

You’re painting yourself as the one who’s sensible, level headed etc etc - one of the non-regular posters who come along and set the record straight about how things should be. If only everyone could think like you, and interpret it the “right” way.

Nope if you read the thread, you would see have been here about 9 or 10 years. Post most days. I am a regular poster. Which is why I know the regular posters. Shocking!

I dont expect anyone to change their mind. I can debate this with you for a long time. But you have called me smug, twisted my posts (see the top part of this reply). Who is trying to make who change their mind?

I will not change my mind and agree that you can goad someone into hitting you. That hitting someone I a car when your kids are in the back, isnt that bad. Or that posters who state they were abused, along with their father by their mother, must be lying

But neither is it a hive mind.
What's you point? I never said it was and you know I dont think it is as I have referenced individual posts on here and talked about regular posters. Not a collective. Not everyone. Since you asked was I saying regular posters are excusing the OP, why would you think that if you think I also tall about mnas a hive mind?

So yes some posters have said some things, others have said others. Some may have exhibited double standards and some - most actually - haven’t.

We disagree, because I think lots have. Which is what I said in the first place. Lots. Not all or even most.

Personally I think hitting is wrong, but I’m not jumping to a conclusion that the OP is abusive. That’s ridiculous and quite a leap to make

You might want to look up the definition of domestic abuse. While you do that check wether kids witness violence is classed as abuse too.

Screaming names at an adult is verbal abuse. Neither parties come out great here.

No. As in most arguments no one is perfect. But if you're comparing shouting, even screaming and name calling (something that I doubt many of us have never done) with physical violence, then that's ridiculous.

Neither parties come out great here.

Totally agree. I have sid he is no angel but hitting your partner, especially when your kids are in the car is abuse.

And being goaded to hitting someone isnt an excuse

Yes, I am quite offended by this. Yet again Bertrand has posted on this thread,stillignoring that I have a direct experience of what she says never happens. The fact that she is choosing to ignore it says it all really, doesn't it?

It's not right Taco.

Apparently believing the victim doesnt apply if your abuser was a woman and your mother who also abused her partner.

Its disgusting.

Hi all

Can we please be careful with regards to domestic abuse and minimisation?

We can't minimise anyones experience as a victim of domestic abuse, based on their sex. That is not what we're about.

Thanks for your understanding.

taco it seems mn agree. That Bertrands comments were out of order and did in fact deny your abuse happened. As they deleted the comments

MNHQ agree

Actually you can goad someone into hitting you - the person who does the hitting is still in the wrong though for rising to it. That also doesn’t mean the person who does the goading is guilty as well.

As far as I can tell you’ve got an issue with one poster who’s pointing out that the pattern of male on female violence is different to female on male. I think the latter is harder to tell because there are fewer instances.

To me, it’s hard to tell what exactly the OP did. She hit her partner, she did the wrong thing. He screamed at her and called her names. Also the wrong thing.

But I wouldn’t put her in the same category as someone who repeatedly beats their partner to shit, breaks their bones and nearly kills them. It just isn’t that black and white.

I have in mind the recent cases of a woman who killed her husband after years of abuse. Yes she was wrong to murder her husband - but the law recognised that she was, effectively, goaded over the years.

But I wouldn’t put her in the same category as someone who repeatedly beats their partner to shit, breaks their bones and nearly kills them. It just isn’t that black and white

Lets substitute 'her' for 'him' shall we
Would you be saying the same of the OP was a man?
Unbelievable.

How often do we hear from a male abuser that his DW or DP drove him to hit her as she didn’t do what he wanted or was nagging? They very rarely take responsibility for their abuse, yet this is exactly the same sort of situation being described by OP. She was trying to explain to him why she didn’t want to discuss her finances, he refused to listen, she got frustrated because he wouldn’t listen, and lashed out at him in anger because she had lost control of the conversation. Inexcusable behaviour and no different to if it had been the other way round. And then it’s often discussed in the media why men are more likely than women not to report to the police when they suffer domestic abuse? The answer is right here within this thread.

I’m genuinely concerned by how many people seem to be okay with domestic violence, do we really want to live in a world where violence is accepted or tolerated?

Actually you can goad someone into hitting you - the person who does the hitting is still in the wrong though for rising to it.

You tell women who have been hit by their partner they goaded them if it happened in a heated argument. You choose to hit someone. So you cant be headed into it, unless you chose to let them goad you.

No I have a problem with that one poster denying other posters abuse. Dont you have an issue with that. I am discussing this with you because you answered when I posted that there were posters showing a double standard. Again I have an issue with that

But I wouldn’t put her in the same category as someone who repeatedly beats their partner to shit, breaks their bones and nearly kills them. It just isn’t that black and white.

Really? Its 2 different types of abuse. Where does that stop. My ex husband never hit me. He destroyed me o er many years, stalked me towards the end of my marriage and raped me once. I ended up living on a friends sofa with 2 kids for 9 months. I quite work after having a melt down at work. And my jow do has spotted him following me once or twice, In the last year. Where does that come in your scale?

No broken bones. Not beating to shit. No repeated rapes.

And do you think it starts with beating to shit? No. The problem with abuse is that it's just ince and unless the person doing it, oens up accepts it's disgusting and out if order it will happen again. Which is why so many people try and get women to leave after the first shove, the first grabbing, the first slap on the arm that didnt hurt physically but did emotionally.

Telling the OP 'there there it's not so bad' dowsnt help anyone stop this escalating

Cannot believe your comments Iggly. Are you seriously saying that unless someone doesn’t get beaten to within an inch of their life then it doesn’t count as DV? So the odd black eye and bruised arm is okay?

So the women who murder their husband after suffering from years of abuse - what’s your view on them?

I can only judge by the OP - she did the wrong thing by hitting. She isn’t, from what I read, beating him to shit regularly.

So no, why would I put her in the same category as someone who does that to their partner?

She’s still hit her husband which is bad!

I give up I really do.

Cannot believe your comments Iggly. Are you seriously saying that unless someone doesn’t get beaten to within an inch of their life then it doesn’t count as DV

No I am not saying that.