Am I self-sabotaging perfect relationship? (Sex-related)

[ConkerGame]

DP and I have been together for a year and are very happy about 95% of the time. He is kind, caring, fun, makes me laugh and we have lots in common and plenty to talk about. We also have similar values and common hopes/goals for the future. We have decided to move in together (he is really excited about this and until last Sunday so was I) and have planned to take the first practical steps towards that this weekend. We would end up making the move in early Feb.

I’m thinking of asking him tonight if we should postpone moving in together until we’ve resolved the one issue we have that keeps coming up and makes me unhappy for the other 5% of the time we spend together (it came up again on Sunday so has given me doubts). I know he would be devastated and really worried if I did this so I wanted to check with some impartial people first whether or not I’m needlessly sabotaging something good?

The issue is our sex life - we have quite different needs/wants and place different importance on it. For me, sex is hugely important in a relationship as it’s the one thing you only ever do with one another. It makes me feel attractive, sexy, loved and affirms our relationship for me. I would happily have sex with him every evening and morning we spend together unless there’s some actual reason not to - e.g. one of us is ill/I’m on my period/one of us has just received some terrible news etc. I also like to try out different things and experiment a bit (nothing too wild!) and would love to share fantasies /talk dirty etc. Previous boyfriends have always wanted sex as much as me or more than me and have been more adventurous too.

My current DP on the other hand is very vanilla and doesn’t seem to need/want it as much as I do. He only ever wants to have sex in the evening, in bed, in one of our “usual” positions and only two or three times a week. He is just as happy to sit next to each other reading, which to me would be how I would expect our life to be in our 40s when we have kids, not in our early 30s with no kids, when we’re still in the honeymoon phase.

I really love him and have accepted that he’ll never be as sexual as I would ideally want him to be. He has explained that in the morning he starts to feel stressed about work so isn't in the mood, so I no longer hope for sex in the morning (I used to regularly be hopeful and then feel upset and rejected when it didn’t happen). He has also said that he likes to know I will enjoy it so prefers to stick to tried and tested moves - so I have accepted that if I want to try something new it’s up to me to tell him and initiate it. The one thing I can’t cope with though is when he’s not up for it in our usual positions in the evening. This is apparently his “safe zone” so the only explanation as far as I’m concerned is that he’s just not that attracted to me. It gets me down hugely when this happens and massively affects my self esteem. I spend the whole night crying and the whole of the next day feeling in despair and unattractive. He has assured me he does find me very attractive and also says nice things about my appearance sometimes out of the bedroom (e.g. if I’ve made an effort for a party or something) so when we’re not in one of these periods I can logically see that he probably does, but when I’ve just been “rejected” in the bedroom, it makes me feel awful. Just to be clear he doesn’t say no to me as such as I don’t push. He just says “night!”, kisses me, switches off the light and turns over. I don’t know whether I should maybe be more assertive about it and ask him if we could have sex before going to sleep? That sounds desperate to me though! He never has to ask me - we just start kissing and then go for it.

So does anyone have any ideas about how to solve the sex issue (which comes up every 4-5 weeks) and/or have any thoughts on whether I should suggest delaying moving in together until it’s sorted?

I’d be devastated to ruin something that’s otherwise so good but also can’t live with feeling this low for a couple of days every month and worry the issue would get worse when living together as there would be even more opportunities for him to turn me down (we currently spend around 5 nights a week together).

I think you are being very silly - what you need is a good smacked bottom.

Well, I wouldn't be happy with a relationship in which sex was humdrum and not very passionate.

BUT you spend all night crying when he doesn't want sex? Do you know how manipulative that sounds?

I think it's more worrying that you say the sex isn't passionate. Probably if it was mind blowingly passionate sex you wouldn't care so much about the frequency.

And also, I have hugely compromised! I have fully accepted no more morning sex, no more twice a night sex, no more being thrown down on the bed/sofa passionate sex, no more adventurous stuff - that’s a lot to give up when you enjoy it!

And it's not enough for you.

It won't work. You know this. You are mismatched; he won't be able to permanently change his sex drive - he might be able to in the short term; but it'll reduce back down.

Personally I also think it would be bizarre and uncomfortable to be essentially asking your partner to have sex that they do not want to have. How will that be good for your self esteem? How will you get the validation that you've connected with sex if he's talking himself into it so that you don't leave?

Ask yourself 3 questions:
Why do I fear rejection?
What is the the meaning of attraction?
Is sexual compatibility the primary objective in a relationship?

These could be good places to start..

And one more, if you fancy:
Imagine if DP was perfectly compatible is this regard, would you be truely happy? Problem free, as it were..

The answer to that last one is the most telling, as it indicates state of mind.

Can you imagine he behaved like this, wanting sex all the time, feeling rejected if he didn't get it. Crying into his pillow if he didn't get it, being all sad the next day, complaining like this.

There would be an outcry on here.

I don't think you're needlessly sacrificing something good, no. I think it would be a stupid idea to move in with someone if his way of life means that you are already crying with frustration now.

You're being unreasonable in expecting him to change. He can have as little and as vanilla sex as he likes. You can either accept that or find someone else more suitable. Just because you have decided to compromise about one thing does not mean that he has to compromise about another.

I love sex and would happily have it every day, but I physically can't. I'd be too sore, and I need a "recharging" period every now again or after a while I don't even get an orgasm. If my partner wanted me to have more, I'd just have to shrug my shoulders. However much I desired him, I couldn't perform more often. Fortunately I only see my current partner 2-3 times a week, so get a break between. If we ever considered living together, I'd have to warn him that it wasn't going to be much more often, and let him decide.

Bluntness,

There are loads of threads with women complaining about men demanding sex and sulking if they don’t get it. ‘Rapey’ (a word I personally hate) gets bandied around a lot...

Larry yes, yet to see rapey on here though. Because it's a woman demanding and manipulating.

I think you would benefit from a couple of sessions with a relate counsellor. Perhaps go for assessment yourself and see if they reccomended couples work

I'm not the "outcry" type really, but this reminds me a lot of a recent thread which went into the subject of coercion, and also featured this idea of "I compromised on X so he/she should give me sex when I want". Gives you quite a sick feeling huh?

Actually, I’m also about a year into a new relationship, both early 30s, not living together yet, and are having sex way more than 2-3 times a week! At this point it’s still the honeymoon period and can’t keep our hands off each other stage.

It’s not just about the frequency though is it. The sex you’re actually having bores you and you want more.

You are sexually mismatched. The feelings of rejection and being unsatisfied will not get better with time. Your resentment will just build up.

I would end a relationship only a year in if I’m not happy with the sex.

@ConkerGame

I think you problem is multi factor and therefore it's easy to find yourself in muddy waters. FWIW here is my take, as a person who has an extremely high sex drive.

These are the problems:

1. your dp does have a lower, more average drive than you. This is the highest his drive will ever be, since you're at the very start of your relationship. It will decline over time. It just will, that's not a reflection on you or him.
2. you two have different sexual styles - he's more inhibited, less confident, needs a lot of direction and doesn't adopt new things easily.
3. you gain a lot of validation from sexual contact.

Here's how I would address each of the problems:

1. I would break up. Sorry. You're at 2-3 times a week at the end of year 1 - by year 3-5 you'll be at 1-2 times a week at best. Your drive is higher than that and you'll make yourself miserable.
2. Again - I'd break up. If his drive was higher, there would be more opportunity to practice and get confidence, but he's simply not having enough sex to get the exposure to new stuff. He's going to stay vanilla and become more vanilla over time. Many women would be thrilled and relieved with this - that's not you, though.
3. I'd get individual therapy to reframe sexuality and sexual contact so that it's not as powerful and potentially destructive in your relationships. You can't allow partnered sex in general to make you this miserable - it makes you so vulnerable. I speak from experience. I allowed my exDH to treat me dreadfully for years because he met my sexual needs and I felt like I couldn't survive without that validation and physical contact. Don't let someone that deep into your head.

I don't think you or him are the problem - you both have special needs of your own (as we all do). But the thing is, your special needs aren't compatible with each other.

I'm sorry, I know that's not what you wanted to hear. x

Fucking hell.

Usually, MN is bang on with my take on an OP, but here I disagree strongly with most posters.

OP:

• Ignore anyone who bandies about BPD based on what you've said. Just ridiculous.

• I do agree that you probably need counselling/therapy to address something, but I don't necessarily believe its origins are sexual

• I also agree that you need to undertake any therapy face to face, and not online: avoiding intimacy is part and parcel of the problem

• Finally, I think in some way you've chosen someone who also avoids intimacy - and your tears aren't unreasonable, in my opinion. They are a response to, and indicative of, feeling a disconnect - both with your partner, but, more importantly, with something in you

I don't think he's right for you. That doesn't mean he can't be - but I think it would ask both of you to change, to ask and answer difficult questions, to confront head-on the issues that have caused that disconnect (in your relationship, and in your past too), and to speak and act frankly together.

It could be that you need to discover parts of yourself that are no longer willing to be ignored. The sex is the symptom of this, not the cause.

All the best.

I think saying 'very vanilla sex 2-3 times a week is loads, you too won't want more when you have dc' is ignoring what OP is saying. If her DP only wants this now - add in children, time etc and his sex drive will fall away further.

OP, I'd repeat the suggestion of couples counselling - I suspect this doesn't need to be a relationship killer, but you do need to explore it before it becomes an un-discussable elephant.

I'd also say the posts upthread about 'love languages' really struck a chord with me.

My current DP has described me as the most tactile person he's ever met, and that absolutely fits - not so much sex (though fortunately we're both very much on the same page there) but cuddles, hair stroking, curling up together on the sofa to watch shite tv, etc etc. I hadn't really thought about it myself, my ex-H was always up for sex unless he was actively ill / unusually shattered, which satisfied my need for touch & physical intimacy as an expression of feelings.

If I knew my partner would get sulky and upset because I didn't want to have sex EVERY morning and EVERY night, the last thing I'd feel as a result would be arousal. You may not be aware but what you're doing is putting A LOT of pressure on your dp to perform to your standards. He does find you attractive because he tells you, what you've left out though is whether you find him attractive? Do you want sex with HIM or do you just want to feel wanted? Because I don't think it's down to your DP to service those needs alone, you need to work on your self esteem for the benefit of your relationship

Look, it's perfectly normal to have a high sex drive. It's perfectly normal to want to have more than "vanilla" sex in the bedroom. And it's also perfectly normal, sadly, for couples to have a mismatched sex drives.

That's one problem. It's quite common, and the realistic approach is that as a couple you have to talk it through and work out how you meet in the middle so you are both comfortable with the level of intimacy you have in your relationship.

What jumps out from your posts though is how personally you take it all. How much your sense of self-worth and desirability is wrapped up in whether you have had sex within the past day or so. That's what jumps out as far more important than a lack of sex drive.

You need to remember that your partner's sex drive will be driven by so many things other than whether you look nice, or he finds you desirable that evening. He can find you desirable but also be tired or stressed or under the weather or just, let's be honest, fancy watching something on telly that night or having a cup of tea and reading the paper in bed. Those are no reflection on you.

If I knew that my partner was going to be sulky and upset the next day because I had said I wasn't in the mood for sex the night before, I can't tell you how pressured that would make me feel when they made a move on me. And the more pressured I'd feel, the more I wouldn't want sex. It would end up being about spending the whole day thinking, "well, we didn't have sex Monday night or Tuesday night, today's Wednesday so Conkers is going to want sex, I better make sure I'm in the mood and I'm not tired, I hope work isn't too busy and the trains run well and I'm not tired after a rubbish night's sleep and blah blah blah..." - what a turn off!

I think it’s unreasonable of him to expect you to attend his hobby, except very occasionally. As long as you do some stuff together you both enjoy, it seems inconsiderate.

Ok a lot of food for thought here and a lot to respond to.

@racecar your comment I think sums up exactly what it is I am feeling! I am insecure and also have a high sex drive, which means more opportunity for my insecurities to be triggered.

@witchy no, I don’t initiate as I know he’s not as keen as me. I was thinking I should maybe start initiating in case he would be keen but just wasnt bothered to initiate that night...but then lots of people here have said that would make him feel pressured or manipulated so now I’m not too sure about that approach as obviously I don’t want him to feel that way.

@mookatron yes I think he is, he definitely gives that impression. I think he has become more confident throughout the relationship (I’m always very complimentary in the bedroom) which makes him enjoy it even more. I obviously always want him to enjoy it and wouldn’t want him to ever feel forced or pressured, which is why it’s so hard to discuss it with him, as surely that would automatically make pressure?

@qartz, hmm interesting question. I think he has in that I’m more sociable than him and he comes out to things with me and my friends (or sometimes with his friends!) when he’d probably rather have a quiet evening in. When choosing what we do alone though it’s always his choice as I’m more open minded and easy going with what we do whereas he has specific things he knows he will/won’t enjoy.

@larrygrylls no, that’s not the case at all! That’s all that’s coming across from this thread because this thread is about our sex life. But I hugely value his kindness, the support he gives me with my job, the fun ideas he comes up with of things to do, how much effort he makes with my friends, the interesting conversations we have, his insights into different topics, his ability to cook....lots of different things!

@anchordown yes, good point. That’s why I’m not sure whether discussing it with him would actually help.

@oofa I am finding your questions tricky! So I will focus on the one the last one. I don’t think physical attraction is the most important thing, especially once you’re in love, but I do think it’s one essential part for me, yes. For me a relationship without sex is just a close friendship. And yes, If we were sexually compatible I would think we were a “perfect match” as everything else is so good

@oiiiii I fear you are right and I really don’t want you to be.

@afistful thank you, I’m hoping you’re right and there’s a way out of this where we’re both happy and together.

@sadik I think DP would do couples counselling if he knew the alternative was the relationship ending so I might look into that. Was hoping we could come up with something on our own but this thread has scared me a lot in terms of how I would end up pressuring him and him feeling manipulated if I tried to discuss it with just us.

@xuli your post makes a lot of sense to me. Maybe if I can stop taking it so personally then we can have a calm discussion of how we could meet half way and I wouldn’t be upset on the times he got “his way” (I hate thinking of it like that though - it’s supposed to be a joint thing not one person versus the other).

Conker Oiiii is right.

Any relationship that requires this amount of change/compromise and the thought of couple counselling before you have even moved in together isnt one that will go the distance

I would be very happy with 2 or 3 times a week. I'm lucky to get 2 or 3 times a month! We have very mismatched sex drives but have lasted, very happily, mostly, 33 years. I must admit though it is the 1 area we have argued the most about.

I'd agree with oiii too. And I think you know she's right.

Be careful that you're not using couples counselling as a way of prolonging the inevitable and hurting you both even more.

Beware - having kids did not kill my sex drive at all. I am like you - unless there is a solid reason why not, the default state when in bed together = sex. We're socialised to believe that men are these virile, constantly-seeking-sex beings, but in reality those ones aren't ten a penny and they struggle over time.

I'd bail. If he's down to 2-3 times a week and you are struggling with it after a YEAR, there is a high chance things will only deteriorate. Having kids MAY knock your drive, but what if it knocks his, too? you KNOW there are men out there that can keep up.