To make an ultimatum with DC?

[bumblebee39]

No IPad no snacks nothing else 'positive' until she tidies her bedroom (been asking her to do this for 3 days now to no avail)

And WIBU to start confiscating the things she is not looking after like jewellery and hair things etc. Felt tip pens she won't put the lids back on etc. Until she learns to look after them?

She is 5 but has been tidying her own room since two (assisted at 2yrs and 3yrs, unassisted since)

She’s only 5 try and be a bit kinder? Some children also regress for a while before moving forward. They just need support to do this.

That sound well done on the dinner front, it’s not the first time I’ve had the “this is dinner, at the table, I don’t mind if you don’t eat it but there won’t be anything else til next meal time”. You might find she tests that by not eating - I usually will give fruit just to keep them going, but boring apples and bananas type fruit rather than berries and plums. Just holding a boundary is hard work but you’re doing it and yes, her seeing that the whole house doesn’t stop because she’s having a moment is a good thing.

In terms of school, I’m clear that they’re going and if I need to physically dress them I’ll do that rather than fighting with them to get dressed independently because that quickly becomes a stressful stand off. Take about 18 months/two years off her reasoning age and pitch your interactions at that kind of level - so a 3 year old you might dress and direct in a way you may not do with a 5 year old but she’ll benefit from the extra attention.

You’re doing such a good job!

You are doing well!

A friend of mine who was a paediatric nurse used to recommend a parental star chart. You give yourself a star every time you spot and pay attention to her good behaviour (you can also do this with DC2), the aim is to get 10 stars a day, and set the bar low enough to ensure you achieve this (using indoor voice not outdoor, picking pens off the floor, being kind to dc2 etc).

That's what I'm trying to do lower my expectations but try to maintain boundaries/standards. I'm hoping I can get her in bed fairly soon so that she's not too tired in the morning but might be fighting a losing battle there 😂 Again just going to do the routine then "you need to to bed now, it's sleepy time" ad infinitum.

It really is like dealing with a toddler again. I think if I'd accepted that earlier things might have been easier. Sometimes she behaves so maturely and she speaks so clearly and does so many grown up things it's hard to remember she's still a baby inside. I think this behaviour has been to show me to react to her differently and not expect the same things of her, to baby her a bit more. Maybe that's what she missed out on the most due to my past relationship?

I mean she was never allowed to come to me with that stuff "I'm scared of monsters" etc. It was always him saying "go to bed, there's no such thing" etc. I didn't realise that that was her reaching out to me at the time but now I can see it.

She wanted my time and attention, but he was also like a child and demanded it all the time and he was louder and bigger and angrier and scarier. I used to say he was another child and he was. & he made my kids old before their time because they had to be mature and self soothing and self contained because he couldn't/wouldn't be.

& now he's gone they are able to be free to show their feelings again. For her to ask for help when she felt scared to before, or dig her heals in when she doesn't want to do something.

I wanted her to be my helper, but that's selfish. I don't need her to tidy up. I can do that. I don't need her to look after her precious things. I can do that. Right now I need to take the pressure off her. I forget how little she is and how hurt she is.

It's a lot for me & sometimes I want her to be my ally but she's not she's my child. It's my job to carry the things she can't. I know I need help with that myself but she doesn't need to know that. She just needs to see that mummy's ok, her brothers ok, the clock keeps turning, life keeps on going and I can handle whatever she throws at me...

Can I just say how amazing you are op!

You started your thread honestly, you've received a lot of helpful criticism and adivy and you've took it all on board.

You've also managed to leave an abusive relationship, don't ever forget how brave you are.

No other advice as all the best has been given, but you can do this!

I have 5 children and my youngest is 5 its just a kid thing to do he rips books etc, they grow out of it. I like to tidy my childrens rooms until they are teenagers then thats their job.they are only little once dont be too hard on her, their little minds dont work like ours x

Angel please RTFT before commenting!

@Namechange8471

As Gloria Gaynor said
"I will survive, as long as I know how to love I know I'll stay alive"
That's it honestly right now. My whole life I've been taught to be mean, angry, selfish, jealous, spiteful, weak and two faced by those around me.

That was my daily bread. As a child and in my adult relationships too but I don't know? I don't want to fight hatred with hatred and anger with anger and fear with fear and pain with pain any longer.
I don't know what the alternative is but I am going to give it my best. I want to wrap my kids and myself and all our hurt in a big ball of love. I want to be the ocean and for him to be just a raincloud.

I am done with the drama triangle and the arguments and the shouting and it is so hard to step out of it and rise above but I know I need to.

I don't want to be weak and ill willed and two faced and any of those other things I've seen, I'm done with narcissists and bullies, overt ones, covert ones, and their yes people.

I don't want my kids to remember me as a victim who overcame things. I don't want them to see me struggle I want them to see me thrive. We are not there yet, but I am not a victim and nor are my children, we are survivors and we will break the pattern: I will make sure of it.

I will not have my daughter be beat on, or my son be the beater, or vice versa. We can be so much better than that. I just need to be open and honest and brave and strong, and believe that if I do what is right things will get better however slowly.

I revert, I go into this place where the details matter and I forget myself but I am better than this. I am the bigger person. I am the ocean, and he is a raincloud.

You're exactly the mummy she needs right now @bumblebee39, I hope you get the support that you need. Did you have any friends or family who can help you? If you left any people behind when you were with your ex, maybe they would be pleased to hear from you and get involved now you're moving on.

@IABURQO

I think there's a lot of bridge building to be done there. Some people have welcomed me back with open arms already others are more hesitant. There are deep rooted issues in my own family (as in my parents siblings etc.) that may need counselling and mediation even if they are ever redeemable and that's not on my ex, those issues pre-existed.

It's a big ball of mess to untangle and in some ways it's easier to make new friends which I am also doing. I think I had outgrown some of my old friends anyway. And of course I have cut out anyone who I cannot trust to be with me as they are "mutual" friends or those made throughout the relationship.

He could charm anyone like any true narcissist can. Many people simply would not believe my truth. Equally others I thought would be surprised and liked him knew what he was like all along...

bumblebee you know best who will support you and who will not. Making new friends is also great - it's a sign of your growing strength that you are able to move away from the oppressive world created by your XH.

You and your DC will heal together. It will take a lot of hard work, but you are already showing that you can do it. For someone who has lived with an abusive narcissist, you are remarkably intact.

Have read the thread - but not too sure if The Freedom Programme has been mentioned but it is something else you might want to look into.
With SS - too clean and tidy might raise more alarms than "normal family chaos". Also treat them as if they are allies and ask if they have recommendations or sources of support - charities who might be able to help. Ways to access therapy for your DD, 5 is a tricky age as they often understand far more than they have vocabulary to express. Another reason why she might "act out", as like a 2 year old she just doesn't have the words.

I am reading the freedom programme book at the moment. Unfortunately this is not my first rodeo, I actually took the course 10 years ago. Long enough to have forgotten it by the time I met my ex 🙈

Trying to be clear firm but no raised voices etc. Just patiently telling DD what is expected of her. It's so hard not to be punitive in any way just clear with what's expected and not reacting to the bad behaviour. It's hard though I have a peaceful day while she's at school and then a whirlwind when she gets back. Climbing the furniture screaming etc. Scaring her brother trying to antagonise me...

This too shall pass and all that...

Hold firm op, she is testing your boundaries, but it will make her more secure to know what you say is always what you mean, especially as she has has mixed messages from her father......

Enjoy your peaceful days to build your reserves for the evening! Once she realises she does not get a reaction or a punishment, she will see screaming and behaving badly is pointless....You are doing well to model a calm home for her, eventually she will calm down...Cheers for you!

Thanks @Dragongirl10 I think it's a work in progress but I am trying to model the behaviour I expect and show our new values as a smaller family. Boundaries, patience, respect, love, kindness, clarity, telling the truth, not resorting to shouting/violence/breaking things etc.

I am trying to be the calm in the storm. It takes a lot of deep breathing and a few "mum breaks" but I'm getting there. Her behaviour is not really changing yet but it's early days so I'm hoping if I stick to it it will pay off in the end.

I think this alongside getting the school on side, working with the health visitor 1:1 and her therapy once it starts will all ultimately create harmony in her life and she will calm down as a result.

I don't want her behaviour to escalate to the point she is looking at behaviour schools and diagnoses... She has been through both trauma and change and is acting out as a result but I hope if it's nipped in the bud this can be just a phase she is going through instead of her being tarred with the "naughty child" brush.

She is a good girl for the most part, generous, kind, loving and empathetic, but she has lived with a psychopath and now has had to deal with a lot of change too so of course it has affected her. She wouldn't be human if it hadn't.

I know I will need counselling and/or therapy myself and support over these coming months at least, if not longer, and I am open to positive change.

Anything is better than what we come from...

PLeased that things are clearer in your head now Bumblebee - best of luck with your DD, I hope you can both settle in and learn new ways to deal with each other, and each other's pain.

Haven't time to read all posts. I teach this age group and they really do have an amazingly focused day and they must be worn out when they get home. I'm not sure what work you are doing with her at home but I really would just stick to what is required by the school at the moment.
If you want her to learn at home then nurture and play with her and make learning fun...….no worksheets but lots of rhymes and fun stories etc.
Also why do you have so many rules? Its her room after all. Clear away most of the stuff. Jewellery? Why? Too young. Also why does she need an ipad? What for?
I feel that she thinks you think more about stuff than her. Stuff doesn't matter.
Refusing food is usually about control and her feeling that she lacks any. Relax about food or it will become a bigger issue.
So its sort of a cry for help. Just make her food and don't comment on whether shes eaten it or not.

TBH you have expected far too much from a little girl. She shouldn't be helping you but the other way round.

My advice would be respect her feelings and let her have a say in what happens. That way she feels she has choices and can make her own decisions. Negotiate with her instead of telling.
Good luck!

Next time, Feckers, maybe make the time to at least read the OP's posts? Might make your contribution worthwhile then.

Have had a session this week on managing her behaviour and am meeting with the school next week. We are going to do a reward chart for expected behaviour, back to basics like "went to school on time" "ate my breakfast" "ate my dinner" so they are things that are achievable. One of those will be "put my toys in the box" which the woman I spoke to does think is a reasonable expectation for a 5 year old unlike "tidy your bedroom" which is too vague and confusing so we will work on that. I am going to buy one massive box so instead of there being lots of different places there is just one box. I have tried star charts before but they were unsuccessful whereas with some careful thought I am hoping this one might work.

Her behaviour is Ok at school at the moment. If anything they thought it was me who gets her their late sometimes (when she refuses to go) and doesn't always do her homework (I've explained this is not the priority right now and I do not want her being punished for something she is resisting at home). I am happy that the school are listening to my concerns and hoping we've turned a new page...

Slowly...

Sounds like it's all going in the right direction Bumblebee - how are YOU feeling now?

@ThumbWitchesAbroad
A bit better supported and like I'm being taken seriously at last. I am still getting frustrated at times with the constant "no, I don't want to" and I ended up telling her off yesterday regarding crumpled up homework and Lego cards all over the hall way which I felt bad for after but...

Progress...

I think it's as much my learning process as hers and I am trying to view it in the same was as when her toddler brother throws all his toys out his bed or throws his dinner on the floor. Clear the mess away, continue the love. Breath through it 😂🙈

So stressed got a meeting with the school and from the sound of things her behaviour has started to be bad there, too. Her bedroom is a mess again, and I have to come off the school run today to clean and tidy everything.
She's refusing to do any homework, even though it's fairly minimal. Refusing to get out of bed in the morning (making us late). And then when she comes home it's like I get all her bad behaviour all at once.

I really want to enforce a proper routine but she just rebels against everything. I am trying to be patient, loving and encouraging but am at my wits end...

bumblebee Just wanted to say you have been amazingly strong to leave an abusive relationship with children and being pregnant (and studying). Go easy on yourself.

Your DD is 5, she is tiny, she feels safe to act out with you which is why she does, she is also probably recognising that she has mroe freedom and space than when your ex was around and she doesn't know quite what to do with it. I left my EA nearly 2 years ago. He is probably OCD, the house is spotless (his although I am tidy). he used to yell if someone left crumbs or water spots were on the floor.

I have noticed my 7 year old who was very very well behaved, always did as he was told first time, has been pushing those boundaries more and more. he is finding himself without a dictator controlling his play, his space etc. His dad is actually 100% better now I am not around and more relaxed with them. Although for example, when he is with me he reads really well, and I think he is doing great at school.. When he is with his dad he struggles. I know its is because he gets frustrated with him, and he just closes down, he is prefectly capable of reading but of course makes mistakes.

I echo what other people have said, she is 5, let her be messy, but work with her to tidy up, use lots of positive reinforcement and incentives. No one is going to die from an untidy bedroom, you will not be failing.

Can you speak to the school and maybe ask if there is access to a play therapist? See what they suggest? You have all been through so much, maybe she needs some help (you too), don't be afraid to ask.

Good luck OP.

Thanks @pudding21
She has been referred for counselling/play therapy and I am going to be doing some 1:1 work with the health visiting outreach service. I am also meeting with the family support who works with the school later this week.

My ex was OCD and I know this was why our house was always "show home" standard.

I am struggling to maintain those standards generally but being able to play more freely is a positive in my eyes. So long as under the toys it's clean I am trying to relax. I have got used to thinking it needs to be impeccable and I am unable to maintain that anyway. I have other priorities.

I am trying to help her to keep things tidy but again this is taking a backseat to other things. She told me yesterday "I don't have to listen to you because I hate you" and says other nasty things of the like... I find this hard to deal with when I love her so much but know she's just lashing out,