To make an ultimatum with DC?

[bumblebee39]

No IPad no snacks nothing else 'positive' until she tidies her bedroom (been asking her to do this for 3 days now to no avail)

And WIBU to start confiscating the things she is not looking after like jewellery and hair things etc. Felt tip pens she won't put the lids back on etc. Until she learns to look after them?

She is 5 but has been tidying her own room since two (assisted at 2yrs and 3yrs, unassisted since)

Just read the diagnostic criteria for PTSD in children and OMG I want to cry...

I've been seeing this the wrong way and going about this all the wrong way... I am now sure she has PTSD. The poor thing, if I could think he is more of a bastard than I did already I do now.

I know I have done the right thing getting me and them away from him. She is little and I still have time to try and help her through this...

Right now she is acting out arguments she's heard through play (one of the criteria) then she'll resist sleep (another one). The temper tantrums are another one. The change in behaviour to me and her brother. It just goes on and on.

I knew this had affected her but not how much. I think I've been in denial.

She's a five year old child! One of you is behaving in an age appropriate manner and one of you isn't. Think about which one of you is which.

I would stick with no screens or iPad and no sweets or crisps/cake. But stop being so dramatic and teary. She’s getting lots of the wrong sort of attention.

You’ve been so reflective on this thread, you’ll get there with her. You’ve all been through a huge trauma - she needs love, care and security which you can give her now. Her behaviour is almost certainly going to regress and that’s hard to deal with as a parent, but she’ll come through it and so will you.

Lots of space, lots of praise and reassurance - don’t get caught up on stuff. My DD is adopted and can be very destructive with things I know are precious to her - so precious she would rather destroy them herself than wait for someone else to do it for her. Also think about how night time was with your ex, very often children lie in bed listening to the conflict and abuse, or can sense the atmosphere changing - if your abuse happened after the kids went to bed, consider that night time may not feel safe for them either, you might need to set a new night time routine for your DC to help them feel safe again.

Well done on being able to step back and reflect on what’s happening - you sound like a lovely mum who is trying to cope with significant trauma, you’ll get there.

Thanks @Jellycatspyjamas this is a steep learning curve and I know I have some reading to do and some learning to do.

I also know that the old rule book needs to be thrown out the window and replaced with a new one.

I hated my ex's parenting "techniques" which got more and more punitive as time went on. Everything was so inflexible and I know this is all a backlash, but my auto pilot is to revert to what worked when I was with him and I need to change that.

I need to give myself time to breath, take a minute, and take a different tack. I would love to reconnect with my kids. It just feels like we've been locked into this strict routine etc. For so long and now we can breath again it's time for a change of pace. I had a wonderful cuddle with both DCs earlier. I can't remember ever cuddling them together like that. It breaks my heart to think how much time we've wasted.

I painted DDs nails and read her some stories as well. Letting her play until she's tired and puts herself to bed (still awake now) but tomorrow I'm waking her early in practice for school starting again. I am hoping to come for a cuddle first thing and then do some talking to her morning stuff like "did you have any dreams?" Etc.

I know she has heard arguing and pretended to be asleep. She has told me so. I used to think she slept through everything but she just felt unable to tell me until we left.

I imagine they'll be more to come, more traumas coming to light as time goes on. Time will tell and time will heal.

Some of the techniques used for adopted children might work with your DC. If you look up therapeutic parenting there’s a raft of advice - it’s all about focusing on the relationship rather than just managing behaviour, and taking time to talk about things when the situation has calmed down a bit. Also google theraplay exercises- you’ll find really simple games to help reconnect with your kids - things like rolling a ball to each other, taking turns putting on hand lotion (nail painting sounds perfect btw), activities aimed at increasing eye contact and skin to skin contact which promotes attachment.

Also consider that the mess and chaos might be triggering your own trauma - of a messy house or unruly kids or damaged toys sparked him being abusive, your anxiety levels will be through the roof when your kids make a mess. You’ll find a way through this.

Not just him @Jellycatspyjamas my stepdad had OCD and abusive tendencies and I was actually kicked out as a teenager for being "messy" ie. Not perfect so have literally been homeless as basically a child myself due to not keeping perfect order.

My other siblings survived as they are pretty OCD themselves, type A whereas I'm not a don't think.

I do think I have a fear or chaos. I have a fear of depression, of defeatism, of "giving in" I have to be relentlessly busy or I am worried I'll just crumple in a heap.

I have to be relentlessly positive and optimistic and keep pushing through. I think I am far too harsh on myself as the result of my own past relationships and upbringing.

Basically it's always been "army boot camp" or "bomb site and mental health" from how my Mum was when she was on her own, divorced and with PND and then when my stepdad moved in. As well as my ex.

I don't know how to keep order without being militant. I am like my own drill sergeant. I'd prefer "empowerment cheerleader" but the former was more fitting of the self deprecating self hating slave driver in my head.

I don't know how to break this cycle, I am going to do some reading and also have a nice hot bath. DD is still awake though...

You’ve come a long way in understanding why your daughter is behaving as she is. I think AlphaBravo’s advice upthread is helpful; go backwards to help you move forward.

You are looking for help for your daughter, can you find a counsellor for you?

You've obviously been through more than just this abusive relationship and you clearly need help as to the best way forward, even though you are being very reflective and clearing your own negative thoughts.

And to all the idiots who come on here without reading the OP's posts, let alone the thread and then giving her either a bit more of a kicking or completely stupid, irrelevant 'advice' - please do just quietly STFU.

I am on the waiting list...

Even your relaxation sounds stressful, I really think you need to learn how to just relax. No strategy involving nails, hair, face packs or anything.

Cup of tea for you, hot chocolate for dd, sat on the sofa with her playing and you watching tv or reading is absolutely fine.

You are making lists of your lists. Yes it would be nice to have a 30 min bath, but you are setting yourself and your children up for failure.

Your dd has been through a traumatic time. Get into bed with her, turn onto your side and read while she goes to sleep. It might take a month it might take longer, neither of you has failed if it's you and three dc in bed in 6 months time.

You just need to take a huge step back from everything you think you should all be doing and find a new normal.

Good luck OP! You're on the right track. 'Therapeutic parenting' is good idea. But prepare yourself for years of challenging parenting. Stressful divorces take a toll.

You and your DD are going through so much. Give her lots of time and lower your expectations as much as you can.

Every time she takes out her distress on you, remind yourself that it is only possible because she trusts you. Give her as many reasons as possible to keep trusting you.

When my DCs were 5 they felt so grown up (to me) but in a few years time I realised just how young they really were. At 5 they are actually very young, and have so many more years before they need to be responsible and well-behaved.

I understand the sentiment @lunar1 but tbh I'm glad I pushed through tonight and once both DCs were settled had a bath and relax. I left the face packs and nail polish alone myself, just had a relaxing soak, quick hair wash and rubbed in some lotion into my belly etc. Which helped me feel like I was clean, relaxed and also gave me some bonding time with DC3 in the making...

I don't find TV relaxing. My ex used to make me watch it as he was obsessed and I used to just feel stressed detached and ill at ease. I'm a fidget as are my kids.

Me and DD did have a duvet evening with a film etc. When we had a cold a couple of weeks ago but otherwise this is my genuine way to de-stress. The only one that works right now if I'm honest. I think part of my healing is to do with learning to love and respect my body again. It helps with aches and pains too since I've had to reduce right down on my pain medication due to the pregnancy.

I know DD enjoyed the nail painting. She equally loves a long soak in the bath. We both enjoy reading more than watching TV although she does love time on learning games on her tablet too and I'm on my phone a lot on here etc.

I have had such an emotional roller coaster today and I need that me time which thankfully I've managed to get. I find it more recuperative than sleep anyway as I have restless legs and nightmares and night terrors so sleep isn't always restful.

I feel so much calmer now. I think I just felt overwhelmed and upset about the mess and broken things but I can see now it's just stuff. If we can survive him we can survive some broken stuff. If we can survive him we can survive this right now. Anything has got to be easier than what we've come from...

Why does a five year old need an iPad?



She doesn't need an IPad. It's not actually an iPad anyway it's a tablet but just used a generic term sorry.

No one needs an iPad or tablet they are luxury items that can be used in a variety of ways including to give children the opportunity to play learning games and read e books etc. As well as being a good way of limiting and managing media consumption.

This is really sad. You say she has been doing it independently since she was 2. Have you considered that she wasn't actually ready for that, and at 5 they still usually need a bit of help? Maybe her behaviour is a result of excessive demands.

Why has she been doing things like independent room tidying from two years old?

At 2 and 3 she was assisted, I said she has been tidying her room since 2 (2 and 3 with help, 4 and 5 with minimal assistance) not on her own

If she wants help she can ask for it I just ask that she picks up her toys, puts her books and things away and puts dirty washing in washing basket.
Not unreasonable for a 5 year old to do. But U in the way I went about it. If you read the thread properly (even the bits you have read seem to have been misunderstood) you will see this was a complex issue I have been helped to unpick.

Thanks

Apologies I didn't read any updates after this post.... I'm glad you are seeing things a bit differently now and get some help yourself which in turn will help your children anyway 👍
You need to try and relax and try to stop 'listing' and putting every little thing in order.
I also do think you need a happy medium for instance her being up after 10pm isn't good really for such a little one, you do need rules and routine as this isn't being 'kind' to her in the long run as such.
Hope your feeling better though

When I started reading the opening post, I thought the child was about 15, not five!

She's normal.

I just want to wrap you all in a big hug.

‘Her Daddy’ has done a right number on ALL of you. Wanking bastard.

You’re on the right track now, you will be ok. You’re stronger than you realise 🌷

This might sound odd, but you might be best of reclaiming the bigger bedroom and reordering the house. If everything else is ok, giving a child the bigger room for all their crap can be fine, but often it sends out the signal to them of ‘You’re the Boss, you’re the Big Important Person’ and she needs to understand that YOU are the grown up responsible person here, not her. That she doesn’t need to be in control and be responsible for you. Fuck only knows what else he’s said to her, but quite a lot of shit about you not coping I’d guess. You need to gently, but firmly, show her you are her constant, you’re not going anywhere and you’re in charge - not in a bossy way, but handing her back her freedom from worrying. She needs security and boundaries - bedtime routine being one of them. You’re in control, not her. There is no ‘she won’t go to bed’ - you’re her mum, she’s 5, she WILL go to bed.

SS will NOT give a flying fuck about ‘mess’. If it’s clean (toilet/kitchen), she’s clean (as in only today’s food/paint/grime) and she looks like her hair was brushed at some stage this week...they won’t see any issues.

If I could get my hands on the bastard my veggie patch would be well fertilised.

I never "made her" count puzzle pieces or put Lids back on pens she just did it that's what's come as such a surprise I think. She did get put to bed before then, was just in her room playing with some teddies unable to get to sleep. Hopefully today will be a better day...

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Bumblebee - can I suggest you get your thread moved to Relationships? Report your OP yourself and ask for it to be moved, you're going to get a fair number of people just jumping on and posting shit comments because they can't be arsed to even read your posts on AIBU, but if you move it to Relationships you stand a better chance of getting more balanced commentary.

I am really glad that you have turned things around on this thread, and started to see that your daughter isn't acting up to annoy you but because of her own inner turmoil.
I think this may be the start of a new life for you all properly now, without the shadows of abuse hanging over you - I agree that you need some counselling too, as soon as you can manage it - possibly family therapy even, to try and get to grips with the fact that you were all affected by the malign influence in your lives.

I also think that it would be a good idea for you to reclaim the big bedroom, as there will be 2 of you using it soon enough! But do it now, before the baby arrives, so that your DD doesn't blame the baby for it.
Agree that it's a "status" thing - you've set yourself below your DD on the importance ladder, and she's picked up those unconscious cues.

You ARE going to get through this, you're going to come together as a great little family - your understanding of your situation has already moved forwards amazingly just on this thread. So pleased for you that you've started the new journey