To make an ultimatum with DC?

[bumblebee39]

No IPad no snacks nothing else 'positive' until she tidies her bedroom (been asking her to do this for 3 days now to no avail)

And WIBU to start confiscating the things she is not looking after like jewellery and hair things etc. Felt tip pens she won't put the lids back on etc. Until she learns to look after them?

She is 5 but has been tidying her own room since two (assisted at 2yrs and 3yrs, unassisted since)

Yes she has had a referral. She is now playing a game with her teddies while I run her a bath. I don't normally play with her in the bath but will make the effort to get involved in her games more.
I think you're right that the "perfect child" was an act for his benefit. I also think it's important that she continues doing the activities she's done previously, like her learning books, which are not homework but mostly fun number and word based activities.

She is working at yr2 level most of the time but these are yr1 level or reception so things she finds fun and reinforce her school work without being homework specifically.

I have cut back on the homework homework like writing practice and things she finds challenging so that the learning is more fun again.

I think because of her academic ability she is being pushed hard but not sure this is necessarily beneficial as the competitive nature of school seems to be making her feel pressurised. I know that's not the aim but also why I am having a meeting with the school to put things in place there and make it clear if/when this behaviour arises at school.

She has too many things. And things that she's isn't old enough to own. That is a struggle.
How much jewellery does a 5yo need? next to none IMO

Congratulations on ending an abusive relationship bumblebee, that takes real courage.

It takes time to find your self-confidence and self-belief again - and to provide comfort and boundaries at the same time to a little girl who is clearly angry and scared about all the changes, is very hard. You both need plenty of hugs and reassurance.

If she does feel that she's lost her dad, perhaps she is afraid of losing you too but can't verbalise that?

You have plenty of prefossional support in place now; I hope it helps you all to move forward positively. Wishing you the very best of luck. It will get better, and you will look back in time and know it was the right thing to do for you all.

I'm very sorry to hear that your little girl is so distressed. Even losing an abusive parent who is better off away from her will cause issues.

I do think you've started wrong, though: giving a single child the biggest room while the other two have to share? Is that really what you've done? You've already sent the wrong message to her with that ... and she has too much 'stuff' on top of it, and you're too invested in 'stuff' (posters on the wall she doesn't need) and she knows it, so she's destroying it.

You need to gently but firmly take control of your new family circumstances. Make it easier for her to tidy her room by getting a lot of stuff out of there. Or put all 3 children in the room with beds and clothes only allowed, and all the toys in the other room as a playroom. They're just going to be sleeping in there anyway ... it won't matter if they're all little. Worth thinking about..

Poor kid has had pressure at home as well as school then. Now her whole world has fallen apart. No wonder she’s in meltdown.

Yes, lots of kind and nurturing activities. The child psychologist my dd saw at 5/6 suggested dd got involved in Rainbows. Dd only lasted 6 months there because it wasn’t physical enough for her. But it was just what she needed for those 6 months. The women, who ran it were very nurturing and loving.

You are doing the right thing by getting involved in her life and taking her lead is exactly what she needs. Then when the baby comes you will have done a lot of the nurturing work and she can learn to be caring and loving to them.

Emotional intelligence gets you far further than just having a high iq and brilliant qualifications.

One necklace, 2 bracelets, 2 watches (both presents), she does have a lot of hair stuff, but that's mostly gifts.

She went through a phase of being very into wearing a watch, bracelet and something pretty in her hair. She also has been gifted makeup and nail polish. She is not allowed the makeup and I "look after" the nail polish.

She hasn't even got much stuff right now. I was planning to get some more games etc. Out of storage for her but now thinking I might hold off.

Mostly it's cuddlies and plastic crap. Her dolls house, sylvanian families, Lego, puzzles and bulky items are all in store, as are most of her books.

I think the problem may partly be that she doesn't have much of her stuff so doesn't really feel at home here yet. We have moved fairly recently and still in transition due to downsizing a lot is in storage at the moment.

I think her toy storage isn't the best so will be investing in some big plastic boxes to store the stuff more effectively, as well as a set of little drawers as some of her things are smaller and more precious. I think this would help.

I know she's had a lot of change and adjustments, I mean we all have. I gave her the biggest room and tried to make it special for her but I'm sure it still seems like a down-step...

I am thinking it might be better to do a minimal Xmas and concentrate more on shared experiences etc, than gifts. Things may have calmed down by then though, I sure hope so.

I feel like I'm at breaking point but I know we will get through this... I just need to remember that everything I'm going through she's been through and likewise she has her own experiences too and will be feeling things more intensely due to her age etc.

I am kind of relieved that another day is nearly over, schools nearly back and we have had some positives in amongst the negatives today. Her room is still a mess I am still sad about the broken things etc, but I am feeling like I can do this...

Slowly but surely we will get there.

& yes I was being melodramatic I think it's the pregnancy hormones and the intensity of it all...

People keep telling me "you're strong/you can do this/ you are a good mum/ you are so brave" etc. But honestly I feel like a tiny angry child myself sometimes and not the big strong woman I try to be.

I think I need to let go of a lot of the expectations on myself and her. But equally keep the boundaries and things the same whilst knowing they may be reacted to differently.

Sounds like you're having a tough time OP. Please don't beat yourself up, you have a new home, 2 children and pregnant too.

Your daughter has also had a lot to deal with, and at 5 is probably tired out from school too on top of the brother, break up, new house and new sibling on the way too. Deliberately breaking stuff is not ok, but maybe she's a little overwhelmed with her responsibilities and your expectations. I know you need her to contribute and are trying to keep her routine steady, but maybe it's just a little too much for her at the moment. You probably all need a little time out after this stressful time, maybe just time, cuddles and gentle consistent boundaries will help. I hope you have some family/friend support. I am hugely respectful that you have made difficult, tough decisions to keep you and your children safe for the future. You're right, this too will pass. All the best. This parenting thing is tough, but it sounds like you're doing ok

I have two DCs no sharing it's me that got the small room! I am pregnant with DC3 xx

I don’t think your dd thinks about a house in the same way as an adult. My dd loved a friends rental 2 bed house (somewhat in need of updating) when she was 5/6 and loves my friends much smaller house more than ours as she likes the decor more.... and it’s more modern, ours is old. Dd at 10 wants a square bedroom and hers is rectangle. She has a lot of stuff.

Children see things very differently from adults.

I think I might just let chaos ensue until Monday and then blitz the place when she's at school. DC2 should nap while she's at school so I will get the opportunity to give things a real clean with DC1 out the house and DC2 napping. Until then I may just Hoover round the toys and do the dishes and bleach the loo before bed but otherwise just accept that a messy house and happy kids is the priority right now.

I am going to remove the hair things and jewellery and what's left of her record of achievement folder though, as well as the pens and pencils being under supervision for now.

I will ask her to tidy the toys each night as usual but if they are not tidy completely praise her for her attempts which will hopefully build back into her keeping her space tidy again.

You’ve just done a laundry list of things you need to do. Bleach the loo. Hoover as well as her for her efforts of doing stuff.

Just STOP doing things.The loo and hoover and tidying can wait. Ok the dishes need doing. Again. You are part of the problem. Fussing and looking for perfection.

I had a mother, who did a lot of cleaning and stuff, which didn’t involve me. The only time she spent any time with me was when I was very little, teaching me to do things like read. She doesn’t do emotions. We are not close.

I thought you were going to say 15 not 5.
I’ve not read the thread so I’m
Sure it’s been said, but your child is desperately trying to communicate something to you. Try to treat her like an allie and see if you can get her to open up.
Look up Hand in Hand parenting.

Good to see that you are calming down a lot towards the end of the thread, OP, and beginning to see things from her perspective. I am sure you
will get through this but it's a hard time for both of you.

My own dd went through a very angry period when she was a similar age: even ripping up her favourite books in order to blame her toddler brother. In retrospect I realised it was about her medical condition and the fear of being in pain. I found punishing her was counterproductive as it just made her worse. Even punishing her for lying (which is always recommended on MN) just stepped the whole thing up and made her compose even more elaborate lies. (yes darling, your 18mo brother totally wrote the letters on the carpet with felt tip pen because he's a genius, he is; also, he bit your arm, funny about that gap-toothed bite at his age)

She is now an adult that I am very proud of, we are very close, and we can both laugh about the little horror she was, because she knows that it didn't matter: that my love was strong enough for the two of us.

On a more mundane level, what did help was dealing briskly and firmly with any misdemeanours and then moving on. No longterm punishments, making a policy of letting the sun go down out my wrath. Longterm punishments are about making children remember: she didn't need any reminders that she was an angry little girl who wanted to hurt someone because she knew that anyway. What she needed was to be allowed to forget. To have fun. To have someone who could help her sort out the silly situations she got into because she was angry.

So I would step down a bit on your expectations, accept that the super-tidy child is a thing of the past. Tbh even if it hadn't been for her unhappiness, it is quite normal for very small children to be super-helpful and tidy, and then go through a period of messiness and slobbiness: I think Dr Spock has a bit about that in his book.

Concentrate on dealing with smaller issues one at a time, help her to tidy up, remove things that you feel she may not be able to handle, but in a non-punitive way: "let's put that away for safety so it doesn't get broken when you're playing".

Try not to go too heavy on the "mummy is sad because you're not doing x" at the moment: she is troubled already and you don't want her to feel responsible for your happiness. Instead, fake a brisk positive nursery school teacher's response: "oh dear, I think we need to get on with tidying up here" and try to make it a game if you can.

Tell her off if she breaks something deliberately but then move on. If you find she has ripped something up on purpose in a way that isn't just about clumsy playing, maybe ask her gently how she felt, if she felt angry, help her to think of other things you can do when you're angry.

Oh love, my heart goes out to both of you. It sounds like you are both stressed and struggling. The people who are supporting you, can you ask if you can attend some sort of therapeutic parenting workshop? I think you're both going through an adjustment phase which will result in a "new normal" being formed. I'm getting the picture of an over achieving little girl who strives robe perfect due to anxiety about her abusive dad. Now he's gone and she's having a lot of big feelings that she can't fully explain. Added into the mix you are stressed, sad and exhausted and kind of "need" her to be the perfect little girl that she was before so you're reacting to her boundary testing with huge over reactions and creating a battle of wills.
Firstly, try to take some time for yourself, to rest, relax and talk to others about your feelings.'
Secondly, allow your dd a bit of space to not be perfect and to feel loved and nurtured just for being who she is.
You WILL both come out the other side of this, it feels dark right now but it will pass.
Good luck! 

OP l am glad you sound like you are feeling calmer, it must be very tough being pregnant too........be kind to yourself, if only one or two good experiences happen each day just focuss on that.

Also l agree that Christmas should be about doing things together, to reinforce your bond out of the house...less stress for you and uses up some energy for her.

It would probably be better if the pressure was off from school, as you want all her days to be as easy as possible atm, whilst she adjusts to the new living situation. l would forget achievemients now and just focus on good behavior and fun times in each day, this will hopefully also give you something positive to think about when dcs are in bed.....
You have a lot of hurt to process too, so when they are in bed take time to focus on your feelings and be gentle with yourself, if all you achieve is mostly happy dcs, and you feel overall a tiny bit happier/stronger each week that is enough.

I am no obsessive cleaner the most I spend over it is 30mins a day (though might need an hour come Monday)

I have been playing with DD while her brother napped and will do some minimal housework before they go to bed and have managed to salvage most of the clean laundry and put it away.

I didn't want today to be a total write off and it hasn't been. I spoke to my friend too who helped me ease up on my daughter and myself as well as the support I've had on here.

I honestly am so tired no idea how to cope with the bedtime dramas but hey ho, most of the day is done. Just hope I can get her to school on Monday with as little drama as possible....

I think they need to understand that homework etc. Need to take a backseat for a while and that her emotional well being needs to take the forefront for the time being and I need to heed my own advice too on that.

I'd want to find the reason why she's suddenly being so destructive.
That rings alarm bells for me x

I think maybe you need to forget about punishments and anger and stop letting her see your upset. You've had a hard time, but she's five, she needs to feel loved and played with and ideally have most of days be happy and fun filled. Its not easy on your own but that's not her fault. I'd stop focussing on rules for a while, and focus more on happiness.

Thing is she refuses to go to bed so I have no evening, only way I get one is if I stay up until gone midnight.

I am trying to have a bath each night and some pamper time to help me bond with this baby/pregnancy but I didn't get that last night. I'm lucky to get a 5 minute shower in the morning and 10minutes to unwind in the evening after she falls asleep and before I do.

I'm lucky to get time to come on here, I know, as I take 5 minute "mummy breaks" which are mostly interrupted anyway with demands for snacks etc.

She kicks off every time I try and have a phone call or friend for coffee and I think everyone is kind of avoiding me and my place right now as it's just depressing. Every day gets worse not better and it's frustrating to say the least.

Op if you are not working can you see a friend or chat whilst she is at school? that is so important for you right now.....

Has she always been difficult to go to bed or is that recent?

Do you have OCD I am seriously concerned about your level of control you need over a 5 year old,

Also re snacks, l would remove from the house any snacks that are not healthy, ie leave fruit, cheese, tomatoes, carrot sticks pepper sticks, etc in a bowl in the kitchen...these can be eaten at will.

Serve breakfast, lunch and dinner, don't engage with refusals, discuss, or argue just repeat that is all there is , repeat, repeat, repeat. Smile and chat with both dcs even if it is forced, smile, and repeat that is all there is ...she will kick up until she realises, that is all there is!!!
Try and emotionally disengage before ( so you don't stress) and have no expectations of her. She will give in if you stay consistant.

Do I have OCD? Why because I ask my kid to tidy her room and on day 4 all she's done is trashed it more? That's not OCD, I have lived with it and that's tidy up this instant or shit gets really ugly...

I am studying so don't have much time tbh (and no idea when I'm going to get a chance to even study tbh...)
I have regular coffees with a friend though, she pops round once DCs are (supposed to be) in bed. Otherwise most of my social contact is over the phone these days.
And then with a background of wailing for juice/snacks etc.

Always slept 12 hours at night, this is a recent addition to the catalogue of resistant behaviours...