To make an ultimatum with DC?

[bumblebee39]

No IPad no snacks nothing else 'positive' until she tidies her bedroom (been asking her to do this for 3 days now to no avail)

And WIBU to start confiscating the things she is not looking after like jewellery and hair things etc. Felt tip pens she won't put the lids back on etc. Until she learns to look after them?

She is 5 but has been tidying her own room since two (assisted at 2yrs and 3yrs, unassisted since)

It sounds like she has got very angry and upset; she's damaging things deliberately because she's still just a baby and she's unhappy. When did that start? Is it linked to school, her brother or you? If she isn't eating well and is getting up in the night then things will spiral even worse. You need to find out what's upsetting her, help her work on how to deal with problems constructively and give the poor kid a lot of cuddles. Then help her fully tidy the room (instead of storing stuff there can you move her to the smaller room?) and threaten no IPAD time if she won't help.

I've said all this, but to be honest it sounds like she's locked in a battle of wills with you; do you need to let her make easy decisions so she has some control? There should be boundaries so she gets to make some decisions herself but knows other things aren't negotiatiable. You also need to stop arguing with her, she's bigger than her brother but she's only 5, just help her and be calmly firm.

That that age ds has lots of things as large family. I put everything in boxes and only let him have a box or 2 at a time because he's just tip it all out. It works and no other boxes until they are out away. If it takes 3/4 weeks - so be it.

When she rips down posters etc talk to her. Tell her she seems angry and ask her why and help her manage her emotions better. A 5yo destroying their space isn't a happy one.

Get fridge locks for all cupboards so she can't get food and food only at table so she can't mess up washing.

Best way to go is to sit as a family and 'agree' a set of family rules. Have a marble jar for following them and a reward for collecting x amount of marbles. Reward gets bigger the more they get. Then it encourages it to continue beyond the first tangible reward.

Be firm. Be non engaging. Repeat repeat repeat "when you've done x we/I/you can do y".

Whether or not she needed help age 2, she clearly needs help now.

You have been through something difficult, but so has she.

I understand you are upset about her things, but you sound like you want to just blame your dc rather than understanding that you are also partially to blame for letting things get to this level.

If she is genuinely deliberately destroying things, then it is a sign of her being very upset, confused and angry. She needs understanding, not your anger.

I would get the room sorted and then maybe thing about how to repair your relationship.

I think I just feel hurt and disappointed I expected a lot from her I know but it was always due to her reciprocation. I mean, she used to just tidy things up before bed every day before she had her story.

Now she says she doesn't want a story. She doesn't want her hair to look nice. She doesn't care about her things going in the bin etc. I know she's in distress and acting out but it's so hard to manage.

I'm taking a mummy time out and will go back in there later. I just wish it didn't take her Dad to be there for anything to get done. I know she's punishing me for his absence, and lashing out because of it.

I know that she's feeling his loss, deeply. But she is not allowed to see him by services etc. And because I think it is in her interest also at this time unfortunately.

I know my hormones aren't helping, I'm pregnant and exhausted and I recently decided not to terminate and now I'm feeling like I can't even tell her she's going to be a sister again because it will be too much for her to handle. I'm also scared she might try to hurt the baby. She has threatened to rip up all my stuff and I have caught her hitting her brother.

I feel like I've failed her. I know she needs me to be strong and to be able to take her anger and hurt she's feeling but it just is so hard to take.

I love her so much and want her to stop feeling this way but I'm struggling with the things. I know they are just things but they were bought with love and always well cared for before.

I know it seems petty in the grand scheme of things. She is not in reception either, year one. Has always been very good, very mature and respected boundaries,

Now she is just this uncontrollable ball of fury and resistance. I am finding this so hard.

Sorry, cross-posted with your update about splitting up, no wonder she's unhappy. Please try accepting she's a very young girl and she's upset; can you take her out to the play park to get her in a good mood, give her a hug and get her to talk about her feelings? Tell her it's ok to be angry and upset, that you feel sad too but it will all be ok. Ask her to come and talk to you when she's upset and rather than break things you'll all go out so she can run off her anger, or you'll get her paper so she can draw how she feels etc. Clearing the air might be the most important thing you can do.

It does sound like she's feeling angry or overwhelmed, I think. As has been said, it's an age where there are a lot of changes, like starting school, or more likely, in year 1. They've also had a long half-term where we live (just broke up on Friday), or maybe it's been the half-term break where you are? The point I'm making is that she might well be overtired and need you to cut her some slack.

My DD2 (now 6, year 2) went into a destructive phase last year, on one occasion she cut up some of her older sister's things (DD1 is now 9). But this was partly because DD1 was lashing out at her and hurting her.

Our 2 DDs are adopted whilst also birth sisters so obviously DD2 was dealing with particularly big emotions. But there are big changes for all children that age, so I suspect that your DD isn't just being naughty and you need to find out why she's being destructive.

Doing the tidying up with her, making it fun, would help. DD2 loves to join in when I'm doing jobs.

So she just witnessed the break-up of her parents? She doesn't need a tidy room. She needs attention, security and reassurance- please give them to her.
And a big hug for you too, because life isn't easy at the moment, is it?

Time out is a good idea.

How bad is the room? Could you spend an hour sorting it together and then do something nice (playground? film?) together?

Sorry, I've just seen your update. No wonder she's a bundle of fury! I would seriously go easy on both yourself and her. She will adjust given time.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. 

The flowers emoji hasn't been working today, I've tried several times.

She is 5!!!!!! She is just a baby, I thought you were talking about a 15 year old!!!!

It does sound hard. Give yourself time to calm down. TBH the main concern here is how distressed your baby is. She is clearly very unhappy and needs emotional support. I would give her love, encourage to express her feelings, and keep firm boundaries without it turning into a stand off or a fight.

Take the broken stuff away. Once you feel better yourself, try to have a heart to heart with your kid. It might take time but be firm, loving and consistent and she will open up to you.

Easier said than done with emotions flying around but you can do it xxx

This is not a happy child. The sudden change is concerning, what happened around the time her behaviour deterioration?
It's not 'at you' or personal.

Don’t feed her anger OP. She needs comfort, needs to know you will be there always for her.
Destruction of one’s own thing by a child is often a sign of lack of self worth. Maybe she blames herself for the separation?
She needs to feel loveable and that by extension the things she values are valuable.
While waiting for counselling don’t punish by taking things away as she will see this as further proof of her unworthiness. When she destroys her things treat it like wetting the bed. Comment quietly and unjudgmentally and just pick up the pieces. If it is something you value let her see you are upset but she is worth more than the world to you.
She is not being naughty. Her emotions are to big and confusing for her to handle. So ha rd f or you at this time but best strategy is to let her regress but praise any independent behaviour. You’d probably need to do this after baby arrives, anyway.
Does she have an aunt or godmother etc who can take her out and make her feel special ( and distract her).
Soldier on there OP you are a good mother who really loves her DD

I took almost everything out of my dd’s Room, she does have ASD but I got so fed up of the mess and everything getting broken. She now has a few toys, pen, paper and her tablet, when I want her to tidy up I take her tablet and tell her she can have it back when her rooms tidy.

I know she’s only 5 OP, she is still tiny but she still has to learn to keep her room tidy, best to start early.

Don't punish, it causes resentment. Consequences yes, not in an angry way. She's still young enough for naughty step. She is really upset, sounds depressed, her world has just fallen apart. Does she see her dad? Lots of hugs, let her regress for a while. Poor her, and poor you

I know I've had to make an effort myself to make our new Home home away from ex and that has had to be a clean break due to domestic violence/abuse.

I am due to have a meeting with the school and children's services about how we can support her (they are involved due to the domestic issues) and also she has recently been referred for play therapy and/or counselling. I am also getting support from the health visitor on parenting strategies because obviously the "normal" ones aren't working and there are reasons for that.

I think she was scared of her Dad and wanted to please him in equal measure whereas he had taught her to treat me as a second class citizen.

I do think there is an element of her thinking she has to be "in control" because she's not used to me being the "boss".

I know this is a power struggle and I have tried to put everything I can in place to support her and me during this difficult time.

She has apologised to me about the record of achievement folder and we have made up somewhat now. I think this is just going to be a hard wave to ride until we get some proper help. I might have to accept that things will get broken and/or be a mess, that I might have to tidy her room for her sometimes even (just so I can get things clean at least) and that there is an element of "going back to basics."

I think I did initially relax some of the rules and that she's taken this as an opportunity to try and keep them relaxed and to push them even further. I know this wasn't the best strategy but we have to do what we can sometimes.

Ohhhh I see, sorry I missed that. She's very little and clearly suffering. Stop the pile on of punishments. Supernanny and the 3 Day Nanny are good.

"tidy your room" and "look after your things" are not specific enough instructions for a 5 year old. Try:

Please put all your Lego in the box
Please put the lids on all your felt tips and put them in your pencil case.

And if she doesn't do it, then next time she asks for a snack or the iPad, say "when you've put your Lego in the box, then you can have a snack..."

For a start she's 5, you can't expect her to keep her room clean and tidy.

Secondly, you've just come out of an abusive relationship, are in temporary housing, don't have much money and are newly pregnant. You're stressed and upset by all of that so imagine how she feels. She can't process everything that's going on around her do is acting up. Cut her some slack ffs!

Sorry just saw she can't see her dad, are there issues there around abuse, that will cause anger too.

Hold on - so her father has left, and isn't allowed to see her - she has effectively "lost" him entirely just now?
I think this may be a "pushing" thing - she's pushing you as hard as she can to "test" your love, to see if you leave too. OF course you're not going to but I agree now is not the time for punishments, but for reassurances that you still love her and you're not going anywhere.

I wouldn't replace any of the stuff though - just bin all the broken and destroyed things and say that you're sorry she's done that but there's nothing that can be done about it now.

She might be appearing to hate and punish you, but she's not - she's probably thinking she's done something wrong and that's why she's not allowed to see her dad any more.

Maybe look into seeing if you can get her to see a child counsellor - they do exist - to see if she will open up and let her true feelings out.

So sorry for you - it must feel like the last thing you can deal with right now - but imagine what it must be like for her too

Sorry - epic crosspost there!

I think I am BU to expect her to behave the way she used to.

It's hard for me to empathise sometimes when it feels like she's purposefully doing these things but I can see that I need to just get through this as best I can. And need to give her the space to talk to me more and have more positive outlets for these feelings.

I am going to do some maths and English with her and let her gain a sticker for that and a treat size mars bar or something, then once she and I are feeling more positive we can tackle the bedroom issue.

The tablet has been taken away for the day which she understands but I will let her have it back tomorrow once we have sorted her room out and done some bridge building today.

She's really unhappy for some reason at the moment OP.. recent move? I'd be prioritising the whys behind that first tbh. You know what they day you can't make a child do better by making them feel worse.

I'd go with 'Hey, I see you're finding it really hard to keep your things properly at the moment, I'm wondering why?' if no response I'd say 'Lets forget it for now and do X' and then tackle together on return, she might open up to a kinder, concerned approach rather than cross.