To make an ultimatum with DC?

[bumblebee39]

No IPad no snacks nothing else 'positive' until she tidies her bedroom (been asking her to do this for 3 days now to no avail)

And WIBU to start confiscating the things she is not looking after like jewellery and hair things etc. Felt tip pens she won't put the lids back on etc. Until she learns to look after them?

She is 5 but has been tidying her own room since two (assisted at 2yrs and 3yrs, unassisted since)

Not being funny, but is it imperative that her bedroom is spick and span? Again, if she was scared of her father's reaction, is there some chance that she's also pushing your buttons by not tidying up to see if you'll behave the same way he did?

Obviously you are under a huge amount of pressure yourself, but you do need to realise that she's only five, she's very little herself still and doesn't really understand what the hell has just happened to her life. :(

It might be helpful to speak to Women's Aid and get some advice. You need advice specific to the issues she and you are going through. You are both dealing with the fall out from domestic violence. I know it is common for children to be angry in this situation and act out, but you need practical advice on how to deal with it.

Also ignore those saying YABU with your expectations. Children are usually capable of a lot more than some parents give them credit for. That is not the issue, the issue is the fall out from her father's domestic violence/abuse.

I would try to get her to talk about her fears. Obviously you can't lie about the past but cuddles and reassurance that you will always love her, always be there, ask what nice things can you do together. And don't make ex a scarey thing that can't be mentioned. You are sad but no one can see him just now. But you two will be v happy together etc
Things weren't talked about in my childhood and the child makes up worse fantasies to fill the empty gaps.

She has seen violence, that will affect her. You will both get though this.
Good luck op, keep using this thread to vent, good advice to seek help from women's aid. Do you have support for you?

I’m sorry you’re going through this. It sounds incredibly hard.

I think you need to stop with the punishment. Your little girl is crying out for help. A tidy room really isn’t important when your dd is going through a mental health crisis.

It’s very common for children to believe they are responsible for things around them over which they have no control. Your dd by the sound of it thought she had everything sussed. And perhaps even thought she was little miss perfect - she sounds like she was a dream and possibly overheard you talking about her as such. Now even she couldn’t prevent the split so she’s turned to self loathing.

No point having nice things and a nice room and nice stuff because shes decided she isn’t nice and she’s going to treat herself exactly the way she believes she deserves. Poorly.

You’re her mummy and you need to be there to teach her she’s still the same little girl and still precious and special.

I suggest love bombing her. Take away anything of value. Find as much good and positive things to say about her. Talk to her about what an angel she is, how she’s kind, caring, gentle, loving. She needs her self esteem built up. Try and catch anything good she does. Talk about the people, who love her and what they love about her. Why she is so special.

Stuff school work. Stuff tidy rooms. This is something you need to sort now especially as you’ve decided to bring a baby into this situation.

Remove anything precious and hide it. Remove damaged items without comment and love bomb your dd - and your ds. A couple of articles. The second has a link to the book. www.scarymommy.com/love-bombing/ www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/sep/22/oliver-james-love-bombing-children. This can have a very positive outcome fast. And remember. Your dd is closer to being a baby than a teen. So don’t confuse this with the reations of much older children.

How’s your ds doing?

I think it just feels like he always said I wouldn't be able to cope on my own and now she's proving him right. I mean I know "this too shall pass" and we will be alright in the end but it's just a hard process. Sometimes it makes me wonder if I did the right thing leaving. For myself I did, but for my children it is really hard. I know ultimately that it is the right thing in the long run but in the short term it's hard.

I’ve just seen your update. You shouldn’t be rewarding with food. And you’re completely emphasising on your dd doing things. Not who she is. I know you don’t mean it to be but your behaviour is a big part of the problem.

I saw a child psychologist when my dd was the same age as yours. What I have said worked well within a structure of sticker charts. But your dd is in a worse place than my dd. And I was told at 5/6/7 never to have rewards for school work on a sticker chart.

She isn’t purposely doing it though, her behaviour is an expression of her distress at everything that’s happened. Think of it as her being upset and find some empathy for your small child.

She has never witnessed any violence but has witnessed my ex treat me badly emotional abuse etc. And he undermined me as a parent a lot, said I was a bad cook, cleaner, etc.

She's not proving him right. She's not doing anything like that at all. This isn't about you at all, either - she's in a world of hurt and lack of understanding and she's lashing out because she doesn't know what else to do.

You are focusing far too much on keeping a strict routine and "keeping her in order", when her world has completely turned upside down.
As mummy said, I think you need to spend less time on "doing" things and more time on loving and laughing and feelings. Connect with her at her level, as a little child.

But you are coping, just finding it hard. Yes you have done right for your children, living with violence is damaging.
Don't be too critical, take it easy and enjoy your children, they love you and depend on you, even when their behaviour drives you up the wall

And even if she never witnessed any physical violence, there would have been an atmosphere in the house that she would have been sensitive to, as well as hearing the emotional abuse and insults. Children can always feel when something isn't right, even if they never actually see anything.

Her behaviour wasn't age appropriate. A two year old who consistently tidied all their toys is well outside normal. She was more than likely reacting to the stress of your household. You may need to completely reset your expectations. She's been asked to do way more than she should.

Wow I assumed you had left the 1 off as I expect that kind of response to a 15 year old boy tidying and not looking after things.
You expect far too much from her and by trying to make her behave older than she is you’ll miss out on the good times you could be having.

Firstly if you give her something, it’s hers, don’t give with conditions attached. If she breaks it either leave it or say it needs to be thrown away as it’s broken. No replacement means natural consequences.

Secondly if it’s so important to you to have a tidy room make it fun and easy. Boxes for toys and crafts and before bed things get put in the right boxes.

I know she has had so many negative experiences. I think I am being too harsh sometimes but then other times I think I need to stick to the boundaries to try to limit the "changes" so it seems like juggling knives most of the time...

That was a massive drip feed! She's angry and very upset and you just somehow need to not rise to the bait. Hide the snacks, no food in the room, limit the damage she can cause. Take all the help and support you can for all of you, it will get better as you all adjust to your new life. I hope it starts to improve very soon

I think I've been misunderstood at 2 and 3 she would tidy up with help

At 4 and 5 she has done so with minimal input so far but obviously this has changed and I need to help her more than normal...

Whatever "normal" is 😂

I have told her that Mummy was sad that things were not being looked after and we have agreed to sort her things out together. She has agreed that I can look after her hair stuff and jewellery in my cupboard where I keep mine.

I am going to make more of an effort to help her feel good about herself.
I will let her have a long bath and some toys to play with in there, then we will do some nail painting and then I will plait her hair for her. Then maybe a movie night after so we can enjoy that together and I will let her help me read her brother some stories and play games with him as she enjoys that sometimes.

I think I got so used to an environment where punishments were used over rewards as a go to that this is a hard habit for me to break sometimes.

She did her learning and got a star. This is something she enjoys and makes her feel good about herself and she always gets the sticker but I didn't use the bribe of chocolate.

I am going to make her a sandwich as a snack instead as she didn't eat her breakfast or lunch so must actually be hungry now not just hassling for snacks for no reason.

Thanks for all your kind words and encouragements it does feel very lonely right now and like I can't do right no matter what I try...

Your response to making up was to do school work and treat with food.

I know you’re in a difficult situation but she’s 5. She needs cuddles, games, she needs you to love and play and not have all these expectations put on her.

You need to stop juggling knives and start dealing with emotions.

If your dd was in an abusive household she learnt to be little miss perfect for a reason.

I can see that, bumblebee - but if you think about it, the situation you had before wasn't very healthy for her in total, so now would be a reasonable time to make some changes that would be a little easier on her, less demanding. I'm not suggesting you let her run riot or have a complete pigsty of a room, far from it - just ease up a little and cut both of you some slack. x

I really feel for you, it sounds very tough. You will both come through this and I might be wrong but I think she's adapt quicker because she's still quite little

I think thumbwitchesabroad has made some very sensible comments

She needs to go to counselling. Have you had a referral from your GP? This is just going to get worse unless you bring in a professional.

Cross post with my last comment. I’m glad you’re thinking about doing positive things now.

It doesn’t matter that your dd likes the school work. You need to put it to one side for the moment because it’s part of the problem as I already said upthread. She is trying to get praise wherever she can but getting praise for school work right now is praise for the wrong things.

You need to build who she is. Not what she does. Otherwise all you’re doing is building high self worth and she will continue to have low self esteem.

STOP USING FOOD AS A REWARD/PUNISHMENT

Op my heart breaks for YOU, after going through so much you deserve support.

Firstly never doubt you did the only thing you could by leaving and it is a good thing for you AND dcs.

I agree with you 5 yr olds are perfectly capable of tidying, following rules and doing simple taske, mine tidied daily at 5 and also laid the table and helped clear away after...so please ignore those comments about her being too young to tidy her room, imo dcs love to do things and get praise after.

l also agree you stepping up to be the 'boss' is essential, if a child is angry or distressed, reasonable boundaries are necessary so they feel safe.
You sound like a wonderful mum and l am sure you will get through this, be calm, stick to your plan and the very best of luck you you and your family..