Marriage?!?!

[Perdie85]

Hi all, I’m new here but needing some advice please?

So.. me and my partner have been together for 12years, I have a child from a previous relationship, which my partner has now become a really good step-dad.

In 12 years, we’ve moved house once, changed cars 4 times, have two dogs and have two wonderful children also. We have talked and had serious conversations about life and what we both would like to happen and where we both see ourselves in years to come. We get on great, maybe not the past 12months due to my partners anxiety and depression, it has taken a toll a small bit on our relationship. But even before that like 8/9 years ago my partner still didn’t want to get married, nor does he even now. Back then he said marriage was for mugs and why would he want to get married?!. yes I thought also at the time what a complete nob! ( He does have some good qualities to him) lol. We spoke about it and he said he never wanted to get married. I thought it’s ok, we have plenty of time and our futures together and he will probably change his mind.

Roll onto now and the excuse now is that ‘ we can’t afford it ‘.. Yes us ladies have dreamt of a big beautiful lavish wedding, but I have been to a few over the past few years to know what I would like and wouldn’t like and it’s defiantly not a big white wedding where we’re spending xxx amount of cash! Small private intimate is more my style, sorry if I offend anyone by that. Each to their own 😜.
The think is, like I said above, the last 12months we’ve had a rocky patch due to my partners issues, but we’ve come out of it at the other end, yes he’s always going to have these issues to some degree but I also think now he doesn’t ever want to get married to ME. Things have changed in the last 12years, but I still love him if not more now than I did at the beginning. He really is my everything.
I did give him a timescale few years back and said I’d he hadn’t asked me by the end of year I was leaving, obvs I’m still here. Hehe 😉

Everyone around is getting married or has got married. And yes I am jealous but also that I would love nothing more than to commit to this man who I deeply love and couldn’t live without. He’s been my rock and I have been his. Like many couples we have had our ups as downs and bicker, but we laugh at the end of it like there’s no tomorrow. There’s nothing more I could give to have my partners name and be proud.

So my question is this.. what the hell do I do? I’m more upset now, than jealous of others, to the fact that I don’t think think this man loves me enough for us to marry.

Thank you in advice for any responses.. xx

Agree, forcing someone to marry you by giving them an ultimatum that you will leave and split the family otherwise, is not good at all. Why would you want to marry someone when you know you'll be standing there saying your vows and the person you're marrying you know doesn't wish to marry you at all. They are only doing it to keep the family together.

I do hope you've got the financial ball rolling, op.

I'm not married, and don't want to be - but am completely committed to my partner. He doesn't want to be married either, but we have joint mortgage and finances.

That's fine for me - but it's obviously not for you. I don't think it's a sign that he doesn't love you (though you do need to get your name on the mortgage etc) - given how much it means to you, it seems as though he's saying that his "wants" come before yours.

It's good that he's willing to talk it through. I took the comment about "you'll never be a wife at this rate" as misjudged attempt at humour.

I guess the bottom line is that he doesn't want to get married - and really, you wouldn't want to force him into that. It's fine for him not to want to. However, the problem arises when it's something you really want. You have to ask whether it's a deal breaker.

For me, if the relationship was good - then it's not an issue. But it obviously matters to you.

I don't see that telling someone it's marriage or I'll go is forcing them necessarily. It's possible to respectfully put your cards on the table, and say this is sufficiently important to me that I need it in order to be able to stay. Just as it would also be ok for DP to say I can't stay in this relationship if the issue of marriage is always going to be coming between us, and if you can't get past my desire not to do it. In that respect, if you're going to allow the other person to make their choice, it can be assisting in informed decision making.

In this case I think OP has been unwise assuming DP would change his mind, but she says that herself. I also think if you're seeing marriage as the ultimate sign of someone committing to you, them having to do it so as not to lose you kind of gets in the way of that. Or I think it would for me anyway. But I don't see how this amounts to forcing.

Agree though, get the financials sorted and see if you can live with that.

But why would you marry someone you had to give an ultimatum to before they'd commit?

Personally, maybe for practical reasons. However that's OPs call.

I don't see that telling someone it's marriage or I'll go is forcing them necessarily. It's possible to respectfully put your cards on the table, and say this is sufficiently important to me that I need it in order to be able to stay

They have both put their cards on the table. He has made his view clear, she is in no doubt he wishes not to get married, her latest plan is tell to him it's game over if he doesn't marry her.

He may marry her based on this, to keep the family together, but she will always know he only did It because she forced it, and he will always resent it.

I don't think she wants to end it, or leave, I think she just wishes to force him to marry her.

If it is game over without marriage, if OP genuinely feels she cannot stay in the relationship without it, that would be putting the cards on the table.

To be quite honest I'd worry about resentment either way if a couple were to stay together when disagreeing on such an important issue, so would suggest some counselling might assist if you do decide to continue in the relationship OP.

I'm new on here and could really use some advice. My husband and I have a wonderful 15 month old daughter. She has been amazing and made being first time parents pretty easy. We coslept for the first 13 months as it felt like the best solution for us but over the last few months have gradually moved her into a cot and into her own room whilst also reducing night feeds. This coincided with the sudden appearance of teeth including molars and so needless to say I've had very little sleep over the last eight weeks, sometimes getting up as many as 8-9 times a night. Last night however was a dream and she slept through from 7pm to 7am with just one small wake up at 1:30am. So what's the problem? Literally two nights ago my husband pretty much said he is only staying because of our daughter, he thinks we are incompatible, have nothing in common and he thinks I am not passionate enough about anything. This has all been a major shock and I was stunned, we have rows like other couples but I thought we were the type of couple to weather any problem. I said I thought we were just going through a bad patch and tried to explained that maybe I had been snappy and unreasonable recently due to lack of sleep but he just laughed and said that wasn't the issue. Since our daughter has been born he has said many times he dare not make a decision as it is bound to be wrong and when he describes how he sees me it isn't a person I recognise. I genuinely don't know if I've had a personality transplant and become awful or if for some reason he is feeling like I have changed. He said I was a great mum and a housewife but we are 'stuck' because of our daughter and he is just going to keep his head down and get through the next 18 years. The last few days have been terrible, he won't discuss anything, if I say anything he snaps at me and I literally can not breath without it being wrong. I can't imagine lasting another week let alone 18 years and can't see how he doesn't want to discuss anything. I don't know what to do, my daughters amazing smiling face keeps looking at me and I feel like I'm letting her down. I don't know what has gone wrong and I don't have anyone to talk to. Has anyone else's husband suddenly seemed to not be able to stand being in he same room as them? I know a baby puts a strain on a relationship but I thought we'd be fine. Does anyone have any advice on what to do? Has anyone else been in a similar situation?

Sorry I think I just gatecrasher a post rather than starting a new one!

Sorry I should have worded it better.. ultimatum- I mean by this, I have laid my cards on the table and told him I do want to marry and I know he doesn’t, so what’s happens next, where do we go from here..

Obvs I can’t force him to marry me, I can’t exactly drag him to the registry office/church and force him to say ‘I do. How stupid of people saying I’m forcing him to marry me!

But marriage is important to me, always has been. He’s known by views and wishes also, so why didn’t he say god knows how many years ago about it, or ask to speak to me about it. I feel because I have brought the subject up, it’s me that’s getting the backlash of it because I want to marry and he doesn’t! Oh and now I’m forcing him! Wow, some people!
And what about me resenting him for not marrying?! Yet again.. I’m getting the backlash! Why?

Anyhow, the kids are staying at the grandparent’s tonight so it’s round 3 for talking. I just don’t know what else I can say, I’ve said everything I can.. yet he just says he doesn’t want to and it’s not for him.. no explanation, no compromise, no nothing really.

And no, not for the ball rolling yet. Plan of action is tomorrow, as we both have a full day off work and plan to ring the solictors and insurance. Let’s see if it happens..

Fingers crossed you get the financials sorted OP. I think this is far more important than the marrige

Good luck OP

I'm in the early stages now and pregnant after being with my partner for almost 4 years. I don't think I've ever got a direct "no" that he doesn't want to marry but he doesn't really actively like to talk about the topic.

I want to get married and I love him but his inability to commit to a marriage even though we're making an even bigger commitment about having a child is really digging at me.

I honestly think he just doesn't want to marry ME, but when we talk he seems to either joke about it or say that we will one day. It's making me very unsure.

We get on so well but this eats away at my self esteem as I think "why don't you want to marry me?!"

Now we're having a child together and he had no plans to marry me before he/she arrives, I'm slightly worried I'm making a mistake. He said we could get engaged but I'm getting bigger and there's been nothing lined up to suggest he's going to propose at any time...

I'm trying to convince myself it's just not something he's into but like OP said, it's just the fact he's not recognising this is something important to me that is upsetting me vs the actual marriage itself.

I wasn't trying to be rude when I talked about resentment OP. It's just this is obviously very important to you, and so if you do decide to stay in the relationship without marriage, I think you will need to work on ways to be ok with it and not always feel upset with him. I don't think that's backlash, and I agree with you that suggestion of forcing marriage is silly: someone who is marrying someone to stop them from leaving isn't being forced. They still have the choice not to marry.

How stupid of people saying I’m forcing him to marry me

I don't think PP's literally meant "forcing him" in the sense of physical force! But if marriage is a dealbreaker for you and by not marrying you (and therefore breaking up with you), he knows he's no longer going to live with his children full-time, he may feel forced into doing it for that reason, if that makes sense?

Ultimately though, you both want different things. You can't really compromise on marriage. It's not like one you wanting a Great Dane and the other wanting a Chihuahua, and you compromise by say, getting a Labrador. If you don't get married, you won't be happy. If you do marry, he'll feel resentful that the only way he could keep his "family unit" is by doing something he didn't really want to do.

If you stay together, one of you will have compromised on something pretty fundamental and ultimately I think that will lead to resentment that may never go away.

I’m a great believer in marriage, for many reasons. Fuck the wedding, I’m not into them at all. Fuck the notion of it being outdated and anti-feminist. I’m a fan because of the legal aspects. Yes you can say it also shows a romantic commitment but it’s not really about that either at the end of the day. It is a legal seal of commitment to the other person and brings many automatic legal advantages. Why else have gay people been fighting and fighting to legalise gay marriage for years? Pretty sure that it wasn’t just because they fancied a party.

I think marriage before kids is the ideal, as you’re then automatically set up to know you’re bringing kids into a secure and committed environment which is what they deserve.

That said, OP, if you can achieve exactly the same legal security with changes to mortgage deeds, wills and insurance then I honestly think that this is more or less as good as marriage and in your situation I would be happy with that. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

It seems more hassle to make the alternate legal commitment arrangements to me than it is to arrange a cheap and simple wedding which covers all legal bases, and most people do enjoy a party too but your partner clearly doesn’t feel the same. But if he is totally happy to commit to you legally in all the ways you need to arrange for yourself and the kids, then really, that’s all you need as a commitment from him at this point, surely? I think it woukd be enough for me in your circumstances and I am really very pro-marriage.

He may change his mind about marriage later. He may not. But it wouldn’t actually matter to you as much then, I suspect, because you’d already have your legal commitment. A wedding at that point would just be a party with a fancy frock, wouldn’t it?

One can't achieve the same legal security as marriage via wills and being given a share in the house.

He’s known by views and wishes also, so why didn’t he say god knows how many years ago about it, or ask to speak to me about it

But you've known his views for many years, he's made no secret of the fact, he's always told you straight. What more do you want from him? You're the one who should have said this wasn't ok for you in this context, how many times do you need to hear him say he doesn't wish to get married?

And no it's not physical force, it's emotional. If he doesn't marry you the consequences are you will split the family and move his children away. That's emotionally forcing him to marry you becayse the consequences of not doing so impacts his children and him negatively.

And how far will you take this? If you get him to agree is it ok if he tells everyone he seriously doesn't wish to marry you and is only doing it because you threatened to leave him and take the kids, , or is part of this deal that he also has to pretend to everyone he's happy about it?

Assigned: could you explain to me and anyone wondering why arranging wills, insurance, deeds to house is not as good legally as getting married? Is it to do with rights to thre children or what? Partners pension in case of divorce?

I’m sure there are many people here under the impression that making certain legal arrangements is as good as marriage. Happy to be corrected but curious to know what the difference is

Getting a compromise in this situation seems near-impossible. Best I can come up with - get married without letting anyone else know, other than the state and a couple of witnesses. That way you get all the legal protections and such, but you don’t have the big (or small) ceremony with the family involved.

If he’s not up for it, then he’s not up for marriage in any form; and if you’re not willing to miss out on the everyone knowing / family celebration side of things, then you’ll have to seriously consider your future with him.

Marriage offers you legal protection that other legal documents can't replicate (plus it's cheaper).

If you're not married and your partner dies, you (and your children) are not entitled to widows' allowance from the government. Marriage means you can still access joint bank accounts after death - you don't have to get legal orders in place in order to access family money.

It also makes things a lot easier in the event of a break up. Marriage affords you lots of automatic protection (next of kin is another - if you're not married you're not able to make medical decisions for your partner if they're unresponsive. That right will fall to their parents or adult children. You might be their partner of 20 years but that's irrelevant in the eyes of the law. You're not married so there's no legal relationship there.

Of course you can get documents in place to replicate some of the protections of marriage, but for £120 you can go to the registry office with two strangers and get married and get all the legal protections in place that way. I don't know why you'd waste your time and money on the former when it doesn't even give you all the protection you need.

I get all of the above - but the marriage certificate is about much more than legal protection. There's a huge emotional implication there too.

Assigned: could you explain to me and anyone wondering why arranging wills, insurance, deeds to house is not as good legally as getting married? Is it to do with rights to thre children or what? Partners pension in case of divorce?

Hi, no it's not the children. The eldest isn't his and he either has or could acquire PR of the others.

It's to do with assets in the case of divorce, yes. Any pension DP has would be included in the pot (I am going to guess OP doesn't have one/much of one). There'd also be the possibility of OP obtaining more than 50/50, or however much of a share of the house he says he's going to transfer to her. Additionally, wills can be revoked, and it's easier to challenge a will that doesn't make provision for you as a spouse. And if he were to die, though they don't seem to be in an IHT position, OP would be able to get bereavement benefits that cohabitants aren't entitled to (though this might change following the McLaughlin decision).

Next of kin is another - if you're not married you're not able to make medical decisions for your partner if they're unresponsive. That right will fall to their parents or adult children. You might be their partner of 20 years but that's irrelevant in the eyes of the law.

That's not really true any more.

And no it's not physical force, it's emotional. If he doesn't marry you the consequences are you will split the family and move his children away. That's emotionally forcing him to marry you becayse the consequences of not doing so impacts his children and him negatively.

One could just as easily argue that him not marrying OP would be emotionally forcing her to remain cohabiting with him, because the consequence of not doing so will be splitting the family.

There's a huge emotional implication there too.

Only if you make it emotional. Throughout most of history, marriage has been primarily a legal contract. It's only in recent times that there's been a true romantic connection to it.

One could just as easily argue that him not marrying OP would be emotionally forcing her to remain cohabiting with him, because the consequence of not doing so will be splitting the family.

That's not he case though, because he's always said he didn't want to get married and she chose to stay with him and have children anyway. He's made his position clear from day one, and now she wants to move the goalposts and get married.

If marriage was so important to her (for legal protection or otherwise) then it should have been insisted on from the beginning. Too many people have children and move in with their partners without thinking of the legal implications of doing so - because as has been stated on numerous threads in the past, the protection that comes with marriage makes generally fuck all difference until it all goes wrong, and by then it's far too late to do anything about it.