Marriage?!?!

[Perdie85]

Hi all, I’m new here but needing some advice please?

So.. me and my partner have been together for 12years, I have a child from a previous relationship, which my partner has now become a really good step-dad.

In 12 years, we’ve moved house once, changed cars 4 times, have two dogs and have two wonderful children also. We have talked and had serious conversations about life and what we both would like to happen and where we both see ourselves in years to come. We get on great, maybe not the past 12months due to my partners anxiety and depression, it has taken a toll a small bit on our relationship. But even before that like 8/9 years ago my partner still didn’t want to get married, nor does he even now. Back then he said marriage was for mugs and why would he want to get married?!. yes I thought also at the time what a complete nob! ( He does have some good qualities to him) lol. We spoke about it and he said he never wanted to get married. I thought it’s ok, we have plenty of time and our futures together and he will probably change his mind.

Roll onto now and the excuse now is that ‘ we can’t afford it ‘.. Yes us ladies have dreamt of a big beautiful lavish wedding, but I have been to a few over the past few years to know what I would like and wouldn’t like and it’s defiantly not a big white wedding where we’re spending xxx amount of cash! Small private intimate is more my style, sorry if I offend anyone by that. Each to their own 😜.
The think is, like I said above, the last 12months we’ve had a rocky patch due to my partners issues, but we’ve come out of it at the other end, yes he’s always going to have these issues to some degree but I also think now he doesn’t ever want to get married to ME. Things have changed in the last 12years, but I still love him if not more now than I did at the beginning. He really is my everything.
I did give him a timescale few years back and said I’d he hadn’t asked me by the end of year I was leaving, obvs I’m still here. Hehe 😉

Everyone around is getting married or has got married. And yes I am jealous but also that I would love nothing more than to commit to this man who I deeply love and couldn’t live without. He’s been my rock and I have been his. Like many couples we have had our ups as downs and bicker, but we laugh at the end of it like there’s no tomorrow. There’s nothing more I could give to have my partners name and be proud.

So my question is this.. what the hell do I do? I’m more upset now, than jealous of others, to the fact that I don’t think think this man loves me enough for us to marry.

Thank you in advice for any responses.. xx

That’s what I mean, Graphista, if he is refusing to marry her she should demand that her name goes on the deeds. If he agreed to it, and sorted a will out then if I were you, OP, i would not bother getting married if he doesn’t like the idea. All you need is commitment and security. Marriage woukd do this job but some people are funny about it for some reason.

I’m feeling like there are a lot of buttons being pushed on this thread. Having been on many marriage vs no threads I fed like the op is mentioning a lot of the classic issues which get people riled.

Op, if you want to be married, ask someone to marry you. Take professional legal/financial advice to protect your position and then marry in as lavish or not a ceremony as you choose.

If you do not wish to be married, seek professional legal/financial advice to protect your position and revisit it on every life change ans periodically for your safety and security.

Same advice in reverse to your partner.

I am beneficiary on his work insurance I believe, but now I am doubting that! 😔 but I know I’m not on the mortgage life insurance and I do have life insurance myself.

Chankly you can’t apply that here. One does want to get married, one doesn’t. Your advice doesn’t solve OP’s issue.

I would never want to get married. I have a career, a house entirely in my name with a small mortgage and both my children are adults. However much I loved someone I would never risk losing my independence.

"Marriage is a mug's game". Absolutely! Because that means he would have to share his estate and assets with you in the event of death or divorce.
You and your children would be left with nothing.
If he really cares and loves you, he should listen to your concerns about death or separation and choose to protect his family through any hard times that may arise.

Reading mumsnet has really opened my eyes to how marriage can protect both parties. I want my DP to be my legal next of kin and I his. We want legal security. That and we are in love are the reasons that we discussed getting married recently and decided it is what we both want.

This is not the 1950s. Bring the subject up. "I've been looking into the legal implications in the event of one of us dying. The kids would lose out. If you died, we would be made homeless. That would be terrible. There's a lot more to marriage than a wedding. It gives us xyz benefits and protections and I think we've reached a time in our lives where we need to look into this seriously. Come sit with me and we can look together" and open a bottle of wine.
Good luck!

There are threads like this at least once a week. I will post on this as on every other. Tell him you want to get married. Proposals, weddings, expense etc are not the issue, you want to be married. If he says no, and you need a definite answer not an excuse or a deflection, then you need to decide if that's a deal breaker.

Yes, I defiantly want my partner to be my next of kin, for the same reasons I want to be his. I know of his wishes, god forbid, if anything were to happen, which I don’t think his blood relatives, parents, know of.
Yes that’s a very good way to bring up marriage, through the legal implications etc. I think I really need to have a chat with him about this side of marriage, then take it from there.

Unfortunately I suspect it's precisely because of how op would be better off financially/legally is why he won't marry. Selfish though! Doesn't say much for him as a father either!

Hoping someone will change their mind is always a dangerous game

Making assumptions makes an ass out of you and me, is that the saying?

It’s a nice thing to hope for, but he didn’t give you any hope so you can’t be mad at him. Only mad at yourself

Of course it applies.

The jist was, of course, seek legal and financial advice to protect yourself, regardless of marital status or expectation. and reassess regularly. Always.

Always applies. (As does the if you wish to be married, ask someone to marry you suggestion)

Yes PookieDo, I am upset with him and mad at myself for thinking and hoping and believing he would change his mind.
I am however, going to have one last chat with him about marriage from the legal side of it.

He hasn’t led you on though for you to be upset.
I agree the ‘decent’ thing to do would be marry you for security. But you knew he didn’t want to and he may refuse. It doesn’t seem productive to be angry at him as he hasn’t broken any promises to you, you just had hope he would change his mind. You need to focus on what you will do if he continues to refuse.

I speak from my own experience - I kept hoping someone would value me enough to marry me for the sake of our kids. He didn’t marry me if anyone else, I am not sure he ever will. It was his choice and I knew that about him anyway, had kids, didn't grt what I hoped for and he massively fucked me over for money when we split up.

I would never live with someone without marrying them now!

I'm sorry op, but I'd also suspect this man is protecting himself financially, and that's why he doesn't wish to marry you. And as he owned property when you first met, that's always been his reason, it's makes sense of his comment that marriage is a mugs game, because marriage means any assets are shared jointly.

There is no reason you can't be named on the house deeds or mortgage even if you don't pay. It means in an event of a split, thr house and associated equity is his. You get nothing but the clothes on your back.

It looks like you've a deeper problem here other than marriage. He's protecting himself financially to make sure he gets it all and you get nothing if he walks away.

Jeez OP that's a financially vulnerable situation you've got yourself into there. Have you ever paid anything for the mortgage directly, or for renovations? I'm going to hazard a guess your earnings have always gone on bills, food etc. Stuff where you don't end up with anything tangible to show for it.

My worry here is that the reason your DP has done this is because he understands only too well that marrying you would've benefitted you, and would've involved him giving you a claim on the house and any other assets he might have if you split up. Right now, it's very likely that if you were to separate, he could just kick you out.

Now if he's done it on purpose, there may not be that much you can do about it. But try anyway.

Any unmarried couple absolutely must have wills, so tell him you both need to do them and get a quote. If he doesn't have a will and he keels over tomorrow, the house won't go to you. Then also get a quote for the cheapest registry office wedding possible. Also point out to him that if you were married, as you're a lower earner, he could transfer a bit of his tax allowance to you and be about £250 better off a year as a household (this is if you don't earn enough to pay income tax yourself). See how he responds to all this.

Also life insurance for yourself is great, but it's not going to help you is it? What with being dead. You need life insurance for him too, especially as you wouldn't get Bereavement Support Payment from the state if he died.

OP, who is the named beneficiary on your life insurance?

Yes that's a good point, is it DP or kids?

Thank you all so much for your advice and honesty. I have never really thought about marriage from that side of things. This is why I do need to speak to him and see what he says in this matter.
My beneficiaries are my partner for the two children we have together, and my brother for the child I have from previous partner.

But I think I need to make a will so I know any insurance will purposely go to my children.
I do trust my partner, but after reading all your views, I am not sure even on our relationship now.

That’s if something happens to me before they reach 18 years of age. God forbid it doesn’t. Otherwise after the age, my insurance would go to the kids.

You can put your insurance in trust for your kids so it doesn't form part of your estate, so doesn't come under the will. I've done it with mine. Still consider a will though too, obviously.

I agree you need a talk. Do you think he's done all this on purpose? How would he respond if you talked financials with him?

Yea I do about the trust, but my intentions for life insurance were because I know my partner and previous partner both have mortgages and obvs still need to work, then my life insurance is to cover any childcare costs as well as anything the kids may need until they teach 18 years of age including college/Uni, if they choose that path.

When we came to move 5 years ago it was my choice not to be named on the mortgage and he agreed, so no I don’t think it was intentionally. We did speak about it after and we both knew I wouldn’t be left the home, as it would go to his next of kin.. his parents. Now this is the thing, I do believe they wouldn’t see the grandchildren homeless, not by a mile, but me on the other hand.. and I know we come together. The thing is with my partner, every time we had argued or had a huge arguement, he has gone to his parents.. now I don’t know whether that’s just to get out of the house or to ‘slag’ me off to them. They have always been ok with me, even after and have never made any digs or anything when I have seen them. So I’m not sure whether that would be the case if something was to happen to my partner, would they still let us live here? Or would they sell the house and put the money into a trust for the grandchildren for when they are older.. is more I am thinking!
My partner is ok to take to about financial things. But I do feel that if I brought marriage up whichever way, he will say oh it’s becuase his brother is getting married as they are newly engaged, and maybe just close the conversation down. That’s why I don’t want to bring it up just yet. But I need to know how he feels about this.

Yes so I knew some of implications back then. But the more I’m thinking about marriage as we’re getting older, it is upsetting me, that he hasn’t thought about changing his mind for the children and myself.

There is never a good time but you need to ask him about all of this sooner rather than later. Do not let him fob you off with yet more excuses like his brother getting married for instance.

You must both also get wills drawn up with a Solicitor asap and it is vitally important in your case because one of these children is not biologically his either.

If he was to drop down dead next week you would in all likelihood be in financial dire straits as well as having your own grief and his parents demands re their son and their interests to deal with. You took a huge risk in he changing his mind re marriage and it has not worked out.

I think he has and continues to protect his own self financially. Your own sense of wish fulfilment and lack of knowledge here in this whole field has and continues to cost you dearly both financially and emotionally. He at heart I maintain is selfish and he does not want to share either with you, with his child you or your own child.

He told you his views on marriage years ago, he was never ever going to budge from that entrenched position (well unless someone like Angelina Jolie turned up that is).

His views on the financial side of things would be very telling indeed. If he still hesitates you have your answer right there.

He could have and should have put you on that mortgage document but again your own lack of knowledge here went against you and he played on that too. You could have been named on this despite having no income.

You may be his "everything" but he is not showing you that same consideration either to you or all of these children. Its not harsh or pissing on chips to tell you that either.