Being accused of gaslighting and abuse

[OmmiMama]

Married 3 years, have 1.5 yr old and pregnant with much wanted number 2.

Just been away from DH with family for a lovely stress free week.

Came home and within an hour or two he was getting grumpy and stressed with me (because I asked him to get something out of the blue suitcase in the car, and then he asked where something else was and I said 'the blue bag' meaning the one right in front of him in the house, but he thought I also meant the blue suitcase in the car - so he got grumpy accusing me of 'not giving him enough information' etc).

Then when that blew over we were in the car talking about upcoming scans and I asked if we were going to find out the sex this time. He said of course we would, we did last time, and I reminded him that I hadn't initially wanted to last time. He said 'ok you decide this time' and I said I'd rather we discussed it and decided together (like last time). He then said that he had given me 'what I wanted' and why was I arguing. I said I wasn't arguing, just wanted us to discuss and choose together. He said he would never discuss it again. Kept repeating that he was 'agreeing with me' while declaring that he would not talk about it with me again. When I said he wasn't agreeing with me because that wasn't what I wanted he shouted and swore at me (with our baby in the back of the car :( ).

We then stopped talking and a few hours later he apologized for the shouting and swearing but said it was my fault for painting him into a corner. He said we could talk about whether to find out the gender if I wanted. I went to bed.

This morning he was acting like nothing had happened, I was talking to him as necessary for getting our baby up but when he tried to start another conversation I just said I really didn't feel like talking to him. He accused me of giving him the silent treatment. I said I was talking to him, just feeling pretty upset.

He repeated that he had been 'agreeing' with me and I had argued with him and what could he do. I said he hadn't been agreeing. He said I was 'gaslighting' him.

I then told him what I had been feeling, which was that I had been so much happier away from the arguing and stress. (I didn't tell him that I didn't miss him at all, but that's how I feel. Without him I was happy).

He said he had apologized but I was continuing the 'abuse' and 'gaslighting' him over what happened.

I just want out. I just want my baby and then one to come out of this place where they will hear shouting and swearing.

Would couples counselling help?

Doesn't sound like a healthy relationship on either side.

We've been to couples counseling. I didn't feel it helped. I felt I was given various suggestions for managing his behaviour (i.e. if I immediately apologized whether it was my fault or not rather than trying to explain it defend my choices it would cut off the argument. It did work when I tried it for a period, but I don't particularly want to walk on egg shells constantly apologising for existing...). He made no attempt to change his behaviour, nor indeed does he see anything wrong in shouting at me (he said he was brought up with adults shouting it's his normal).

To be honest, you asked him, he said yes and I don't really know why you kept asking! Perhaps you need to consider what he has said carefully and think if it could have any basis in fact from his point of view?

You asked him a question, he answered, then you asked again because you wanted a discussion and possibly a different outcome?

You do sound like hard work tbh.

Honestly OP. Id have probably snapped at you about the scans. If this is a one off incident he is being dramatic calling it gas lighting, especially knowing how much of an unreasonable little bag i was when i was pregnant myself, but i don't think he was unreasonable to find that conversation utterly infuriating.

It does sound like there is more to this though. How does he treat you in general? If he was brought up with people who shout then that probably is his natural reaction and only way he knows. But that can easily be worked on. I was constantly screamed at as a child and although i detested it, i found myself doing it as an adult and would feel vile afterwards and cry usually.

Personally, but whats best can be different for everyone, ive found visualising slowing everything down, deep breathing and focussing on being intensely aware of myself has helped. I havent shouted at anyone in a long time and the last time i did was a one off in the middle of a long ish stint of not doing.

People who grow up in abusive environments are often left with issues that cause their behaviour to be unintentionally abusive themselves. However, its not an excuse. If you are experiencing abusive behaviour, you cannot fix it. Pandering to it and walking on egg shells will absolutely not help. It wont help you, it wont help your husband and it wont help your kids.

If he needs to and is going to change anything it needs to come from deep personal growth and self control practise and while, with a lot of patience, a rhinos skin and an ability to depersonalise (which is difficult without small children involved), you can support this if that is your wish, you cannot make it better. He has to.

You both sound like hard work. The scan conversation was weird. He basically said that he'd like to find out but would go along with what you decided (not to find out) which is more than reasonable. Totally understand why he wouldn't want to discuss it, especially after you sulked (about his gut reaction not being the same as yours?)

The shouting about the bag etc is not on either. He could have checked whether you meant bag or suitcase.

You both sound really annoying. It sounds like you were trying to have an argument and wouldn't stop until you got one.

I can understand why he got annoyed about the bag ( easy mistake to make, sorry) and about the scan.
He gave you his answer, but it wasn't what you wanted to hear.
What do you usually argue about?
Could he have genuine reasons for feeling this way?

The scan conversation would have annoyed me to be honest, you know what he wanted, and even when he gave you what you wanted (to talk about it) you said you went to bed...
Is there more to this?
Are you happy together? Everyone argues and there have been times when I swore at my husband, but listening to each other is key.

You asked him a question, he answered, then you asked again because you wanted a discussion and possibly a different outcome?

What? I don't know where you are getting that from. I didn't ask anything twice. Nor did I want a 'different outcome', unless you mean I wanted us to actually discuss it and not just dismiss the question.

I asked. He said we did last time so no need to discuss. I pointed out that I hadn't wanted to last time so we had discussed pros and cons. He said 'you do what you want'. I said 'I want to discuss it'. He refused to discuss it then he shouted and swore at me.

Abuse/ gaslighting are in the eye of the beholder/ victim, and as we only have your side of the story we don't know how you came across or how you made him feel.

When he talked about gaslighting you focused on how you felt, with no regard to him. Next time try to understand how he is feeling as well. He might be being completely unreasonable, but he may well not be and you're not going to see that until you listen.

So you’ll keep chipping away at him when you want to talk, to the point of arguing even though it sounds like he was agreeing with everything you said.

But when he wants to talk you’ll shut him down and tell him so.

I’m with him, which is unusual on here, but there it is.

You are gaslighting him, and you are causing arguments where there doesn’t need to be any.

If you’re not happy, leave.

He gave you his answer, but it wasn't what you wanted to hear.

His initial answer was that of course we would find out it was a done deal no need for a discussion and I had no say! Would anyone be happy being told that when they tried to have start a discussion!? I don't understand why everyone is saying 'he gave his answer' as if I just have to accept whatever he decides with no discussion because I started the conversation.

even when he gave you what you wanted (to talk about it) you said you went to bed...

Sorry, I wasn't clear. He said we could talk about it, meaning at some point, not then and there. (Up til then he had been insisting he would never talk about it again).

I know he apologized and tried to madte amends but it doesn't take away my baby being sat in the car with someone shouting and swearing for half an hour. 'sorry' and 'yes we can have that conversation' doesn't undo that.

I can totally see why your husband is frustrated with you, even on this post you are trying to manipulate posters into agreeing with you and not taking on board anyones comments.

His initial answer was that of course we would find out it was a done deal no need for a discussion and I had no say!

Well why did you ask then? If you didn’t want to know you could have said “I’d really like it to be a surprise this time” or “could we not find out this time?”

Sorry, I wasn't clear. He said we could talk about it, meaning at some point, not then and there. (Up til then he had been insisting he would never talk about it again)

So you kept going until you got him to change his answer and then went to bed.

I know he apologized and tried to madte amends but it doesn't take away my baby being sat in the car with someone shouting and swearing for half an hour. 'sorry' and 'yes we can have that conversation' doesn't undo that

Presumably his baby too? I’m not condoning shouting and swearing at all, but OP, you sound like you just badger him constantly until he complies with what you expect from him. I’ve got the patience of a saint but even I’d flip it with the constant nip nip nipping that you can’t even see you’re doing!

Def unreasonable about the scan-you that is.

He was really getting grumpy/stressed because you asked him to get something from the car?

How did the conversation about the bag go?

Surely as soon as he started to move away from it you just say-"the blue bag in front of you"?

Seems to me like it can only be made into an argument if someone wants it to be.

And while he should apologise for shouting and swearing, I don’t think he has anything else to apologise for. In fact I think he’s being emotionally abused, by you.

ommimama look none of us were there in your car yesterday so we can only give you our opinion based on what you posted. However it does seem like he was talking but you were not listening.
You brought up the idea of finding out sex, he said yes, surely that is a discussion. You could have said then that you didn’t want to know, but it seems like you went straight on the attack...
I’m not sure what you want us to say...
Hope you can figure it out!

I just want out. I just want my baby and then one to come out of this place where they will hear shouting and swearing

So now you’re going to take his kids away too? When it is you who starts all the arguments? Unreal.

OP, wrt the scan, you were discussing it. He said he wanted to know. Then he said that he would follow your wishes. What more discussion was needed?

Have the pros and cons of finding out the sex changed since last time?

Well why did you ask then?

Because I wanted to have a conversation about it? It was literally just idle chat about the new baby in the car. I hadn't formed a particular opinion yet I'm only six weeks pregnant.

So you kept going until you got him to change his answer and then went to bed.

No, I stopped saying anything as soon as he started shooting, then hours later as I was going to bed he apologized and said we could have the conversation.

Presumably his baby too?
Yes it's his baby. That doesn't make it ok that they were exposed to that.

you are trying to manipulate posters into agreeing with you and not taking on board anyones comments.

I don't feel the first part of that sentence is fair but I am absolutely reading and thinking about everything people are writing.

Because I wanted to have a conversation about it? It was literally just idle chat about the new baby in the car. I hadn't formed a particular opinion yet I'm only six weeks pregnant

Clearly you had, otherwise you wouldn’t have kicked off an argument about it!

No, I stopped saying anything as soon as he started shooting, then hours later as I was going to bed he apologized and said we could have the conversation

So what’s your problem?

Yes it's his baby. That doesn't make it ok that they were exposed to that

Then don’t start arguments!

Honest to god I’ve lived with emotional abuse, the passive aggressive digs, the control, the constant fucking badgering and everything being on their terms.

Do you know it took me longer to put myself back together after that than it did to recover from the physical abuse??

He has told you clearly that you are gaslighting, you are doing it on this thread!

Wake up, and don’t ever, ever use his kids as a threat because it is your behaviour which needs to change. Not his.