Being accused of gaslighting and abuse

[OmmiMama]

Married 3 years, have 1.5 yr old and pregnant with much wanted number 2.

Just been away from DH with family for a lovely stress free week.

Came home and within an hour or two he was getting grumpy and stressed with me (because I asked him to get something out of the blue suitcase in the car, and then he asked where something else was and I said 'the blue bag' meaning the one right in front of him in the house, but he thought I also meant the blue suitcase in the car - so he got grumpy accusing me of 'not giving him enough information' etc).

Then when that blew over we were in the car talking about upcoming scans and I asked if we were going to find out the sex this time. He said of course we would, we did last time, and I reminded him that I hadn't initially wanted to last time. He said 'ok you decide this time' and I said I'd rather we discussed it and decided together (like last time). He then said that he had given me 'what I wanted' and why was I arguing. I said I wasn't arguing, just wanted us to discuss and choose together. He said he would never discuss it again. Kept repeating that he was 'agreeing with me' while declaring that he would not talk about it with me again. When I said he wasn't agreeing with me because that wasn't what I wanted he shouted and swore at me (with our baby in the back of the car :( ).

We then stopped talking and a few hours later he apologized for the shouting and swearing but said it was my fault for painting him into a corner. He said we could talk about whether to find out the gender if I wanted. I went to bed.

This morning he was acting like nothing had happened, I was talking to him as necessary for getting our baby up but when he tried to start another conversation I just said I really didn't feel like talking to him. He accused me of giving him the silent treatment. I said I was talking to him, just feeling pretty upset.

He repeated that he had been 'agreeing' with me and I had argued with him and what could he do. I said he hadn't been agreeing. He said I was 'gaslighting' him.

I then told him what I had been feeling, which was that I had been so much happier away from the arguing and stress. (I didn't tell him that I didn't miss him at all, but that's how I feel. Without him I was happy).

He said he had apologized but I was continuing the 'abuse' and 'gaslighting' him over what happened.

I just want out. I just want my baby and then one to come out of this place where they will hear shouting and swearing.

I couldn't see you being abusive from the OP.

You wanting to discuss and reach a mutual decision is exactly how I am. For example, if my dh says "I'm doing xyz" and I think, actually I'll be upset if you do that, I might say "the idea of you doing xyz makes me feel upset, but I don't know if I'm being unreasonable, so can I have some time to think it through and talk about it before we decide?"
He will invariably then throw his hands up and say "don't worry about it. I won't do it." and shut down any further conversation about it. When, I'm not saying "no" or even having a fully formed opinion yet, just not wanting to rush in to making a decision I've not thought through yet. And, also, if it's clearly something he did want to do, then that is valid too and I'm not expecting to simply overrule him. The best outcome is reaching a decision together that we can both be happy with.

I read your op and interpreted that way.

I think it comes down to a clash of communication styles, which is quite normal in relationships. But, the important distinction that makes your experience not normal, is that my dh never then shouts and swears at me. That's not ok, ever, in my opinion. My dh might get annoyed that I like to discuss and ponder, when he's more black and white, but he never verbally attacks me for disagreeing with him.

fluffypudcats
That's ok!

I agree. In your OP you don't come across as abusive. To me, it read more as if you were going the extra mile to present the context of the argument, including the suitcase mix up and what should have been a general conversation about the scan, when it would take place and what would happen, etc. You didn't expect him to (passive agressively?) drop out of the discussion, so it did sound to me as if he was causing the breakdown in communication and I can't see how that was in any way your fault or that you were being 'hard work' .

If you are noticing a pattern to these arguments it sounds like couples counselling won't really help, as others have said... because most couples counseling looks for both sides to realise thier part in the dynamic of the relationship and if he is subtly thinking the fault is all yours it won't work. Counseling for yourself might help you to deal with your feelings and figure out what you want to do.

Was he building up to a bad mood and the scan discussion was the excuse to set it off? My exH (and my mother, incidentally) was a real joy-sucker had a certain 6th sense about when I was in a good mood, I got to the point I'd have to hide it from him as he'd always turn on me, or make a fuss about how the toilet needed cleaning, anything to bring me down. Maybe he was pissed off about you having a nice week off, then the suitcase mix up, so a row at some point was inevitable? Whereas...with you newly pregnant I'd like to think he would be looking after you, and making just a bit of an extra effort. Does he dislike it when the focus is on you (instead of him)?

It's worrying that he broke a door! Seriously. What if you'd been standing behind it holding a baby?

"I would love to hear his version of things...
I am another who thinks your being little hard work tbh"

I agree-but it doesn't excuse him, does it?

I put earlier that there didn't seem much to discuss about a scan & you said that there was for you.

Do you often want to discuss a lot of things that he doesn't, or discuss something to the nth degree?

If so then I think that unless you both compromise, you're just incompatible.

"Your 6 weeks along so there is plenty of time to sort out what you want to do regarding finding out or not.*

I agree. That's why it seemed so extreme for him to declare the subject over, he wasn't going to talk about it ever again.

And when he said to talk about it you blew him off!

No, when he agreed we would talk about it some point he didn't mean then and there. We haven't had the conversation, but I haven't blown anything off.

Does he have some other stresses effecting his life atm that you are not pointing out? He sounds like he is unhappy just as you have mentioned you are.

He seems to find everything stressful at the moment. He says it's lack of sleep, but if I suggest he sleeps in the spare room so as not to get woken by me getting up for the baby he gets offended (I always make it clear I'm not trying to kick him out, just want him to get a decent night!). I'd sleep in the spare room and get a full night if I could.

He says he's extremely happy (especially about the new baby etc).

I can't answer your AIBU as I'm still not fully clear on the facts.

I didn't post in AIBU.

Your clarity of describing the conversation (or lack of) to people who weren't there wasn't as clear as it maybe could have been.

I was crying my eyes out when I wrote the first post. I was very unclear. I only realised when people started responding to a conversation we hadn't had, so I tried to describe it better. I'm still not feeling particularly clear headed now. Just deeply sad. Lost.

he did try to talk about it though and OP wasn't interested in talking then.. then also the following morning also wasn't interested in talking still.

No, after the shouting when I was on my way to bed, he said sorry and that we could talk about it, but he didn't mean then, he was on his way to watch his TV shows. He just meant 'we can talk about it at some point'.

The following morning he wasn't talking about the scan, he was trying to make happy small talk about this village fete thing at the end of the month - nothing consequential.

I know lots of people think I was wrong to say I didn't feel like talking to him, but have you had the experience of someone you love shouting at you, calling you a cunt and a bitch and horrible things about your abilities as a mother and a lover and ripping you apart. It's not easy to just forget that 12 hours later and have a bright and breezy chat about nothing important.

Just seems like such a big deal made out of nothing!

It doesn't feel like nothing to be shouted and sworn at to me. I know if I stay I'll just be waiting for the next time.

Ok if he shouts and swears on a weekly basis then you have a massive issue.

Surely you have talked about his reactions?

What does he say? Does he think it’s ok to swear in front of your child and intimidate you?

He broke the door?

Nah I would not have that.

I’d tolerate shouting a few times a year but not every week!

Regardless of how you are coming across on here he is the one in the wrong.

It is very telling that you were very happy after your holiday and now feel upset

I’d highly recommended you confide in the family that you have just been away to see

They know you both much better and can advise accordingly

Was your previous conversation about ‘finding out’ a bit loaded to be such a touch point now?

I honestly didn't think so. We started from completely different viewpoints, but only because we had different reasons in mind, so once we discussed them it was fairly easy to decide.

OP if you’d started the thread saying your dh called you a cunt after he shut down a conversation about the scan you would have had very different responses. Yes ultimately a yes or no decision but it’s still something you can talk about and he made it into it’s either what you want or what I want.

Our arguments are like this. I want to get as far away from him as possible when the verbal shit starts.

So he gets to decide it’s all blown over after shouting and swearing at you? You’ll be waiting a long time for an apology. I bet when you feel ok later he’ll be cross with you still.

We’re a lot further along and it’s been the same, not as frequent I wouldn’t say. We also had our first 2 close together and it’s not easy.

I would say when he tries to shut you down just reflect back to him what he’s doing and try not to go on the defensive.

Or maybe you should try a separation while your baby is young.

If you hadn't wanted to know before, what changed your mind?

Idk, when I was pregnant those decisions were pretty much mine tbh.

I read your op and interpreted that way.

Well at least it wasn't completely unintelligible!

I think it comes down to a clash of communication styles, which is quite normal in relationships. But, the important distinction that makes your experience not normal, is that my dh never then shouts and swears at me. That's not ok, ever, in my opinion.

I know. But I can't make it stop can I? I live with it or throw the whole marriage away. It's heartbreaking.

Was he building up to a bad mood and the scan discussion was the excuse to set it off?

I don't think so. We were just having a happy casual conversation about the new baby.

I wouldn't normally comment on a relationships thread because there are so many posters who are so better at spotting abuse and giving advice than me.

But on this thread, I'm surprised at the number of posters calling abuse based on the OP. Both conversations described sound to me to be frustrating and difficult but not abusive. The blue suitcase one is just an annoying miscommunication. The scan sounds like you want a discussion (totally reasonable) and he just wants you to make a decision and get on with it (again totally reasonable, note everyone wants to talk about anything). From the OP, maybe you're two people who don't communicate well and can work it through, or maybe you're just incompatible.

However, later when you talk about him calling you a cunt and breaking a door, that most certainly is abuse. I'm sorry OP but I think you need to get out.

Do you often want to discuss a lot of things that he doesn't, or discuss something to the nth degree?

It's definitely not the main cause of arguments or anything. We have had them where I've wanted to discuss things and he hasn't, but we also have then when he wants a big discussion about things and I don't, so I don't think it's that I'm more into talking than him. (I know theres a stereotype about men being silent types, be he's the opposite - freely admits to being a gossip and always wanting to talk).

Surely you have talked about his reactions?

He thinks I'm oversensitive, that shouting when you are angry is normal and that I make a big deal of it.

What does he say? Does he think it’s ok to swear in front of your child and intimidate you?

Sometimes he agrees he shouldn't shout in front of the child, other times he just says he heard shouting growing up and it didn't do him any harm.

He broke the door?

It was a one off. I told myself only stayed because he promised he would get counseling for his anger (the first time he promised it). He never did.

I’d highly recommended you confide in the family that you have just been away to see

It's a bit complicated but I really can't talk to them about it. Or anyone in real life. I could get counseling, but I would worry about him using it as a weapon against me.

" shouting when you are angry is normal "

Nope!

" he heard shouting growing up and it didn't do him any harm."

Well it obviously did!

Anyway, even if it didn't , why would any decent person subject their spouse to it & be OK with their kids growing up around it?

OP if you’d started the thread saying your dh called you a cunt after he shut down a conversation about the scan you would have had very different responses.

Well, I thought I did! I realise I was unclear about the scan conversation, but I said he shouted and swore at me.

You’ll be waiting a long time for an apology

He already apologized. Unusual for him to do it so early and not making me apologize first, to be honest. Does that mean things are improving?

OP I’ve been reading all your updates and I owe you a massive apology.

I read it as gaslighting and projected my own experiences on to you and I am sorry for giving you such a hard time.

Having read all your subsequent updates, I realise there is more to it and I shouldn’t have got so entrenched in my own projection. So I am sorry, for going at you so hard.

He already apologized. Unusual for him to do it so early and not making me apologize first, to be honest. Does that mean things are improving?

Words are easy. He may say sorry, but it's only worth anything if he stops with the aggression and violence.

If you hadn't wanted to know before, what changed your mind?

My reasons for not wanting to know before were to do with our families buying us 'big' presents (prams/cots/clothes etc) and not wanting them to be very girly or boyish as I knew we wanted to use them for multiple children. Husbands reasons were more emotional than practical, so I felt they had more weight.

Idk, when I was pregnant those decisions were pretty much mine tbh.

I know some relationships work like that, but husband has always wanted to be as involved with anything involving our child. I have friends who's partners don't even attend scans - husband would be devestated if he couldn't attend.

I’ve only read the first and last page of the thread but it strikes me that neither side is entirely blameless. You were being somewhat hard work pestering for the answer you wanted about the scan (or at least the chance to talk him into changing his mind) but he was being far more unreasonable in shouting and swearing at you about it, especially in the hearing of your children.
I’m sure I am similarly irritating to my DH at times, especially as I am an extrovert and want to discuss every option at length, he is an introvert and wants to mull something over quietly and then present a fully formed option that doesn’t need further discussion. However in this situation he might have snapped something like ‘oh for goodness sake, if you don’t want to find out just say so!’ Gone a bit quiet for a few minutes - I’d have apologised for being pushy and then we’d have left it for a bit and later he’d have come back with some kind of compromise solution or explanation for why he wanted to find out and we’d have had a brief discussion about it and moved on. Shouting, swearing and screaming needs to be addressed and if he won’t address it then there will be difficult decisions about what you are willing to expose your children to.
We had a similar situation to the suitcase thing last night where u was looking for something, he suggested a place it could be, I misunderstood and said I’d already looked there, he then spent half an hour clambering about in the loft trying to find it with no success. Gave up, went to the bathroom, checked the place he’d suggested on the way and found it! I was mortified and very apologetic - explained the misunderstanding (chest = blanket box vs chest = chest of drawers), he was pretend cross and I made him a cup of tea and got a cake out for him, we joked about baby brain. That is the way normal couples handle this kind of thing!

I simply don't understand what has happened on this thread.

A prolific poster Hen posted numerous times and was clearly projecting . Sadly, other posters followed her lead - which often happens.

The agony of it is you've stuck with it, insisting you are being misrepresented by said prolific poster (and others). Then you're accused of being, what was it, controlling. Or whatever. Fucking nuts thread imo. Whatever you say you are castigated.

Where did you learn to hang on in there when you are being abused, fighting your corner?

Your partner is abusing and gaslighting YOU. How strange he accuses you of what he is doing himself - but a very common tactic for abusers.

I wouldn't bother fighting your corner either here or in your relationship.

ie I'd get out of both iiwy