Being accused of gaslighting and abuse

[OmmiMama]

Married 3 years, have 1.5 yr old and pregnant with much wanted number 2.

Just been away from DH with family for a lovely stress free week.

Came home and within an hour or two he was getting grumpy and stressed with me (because I asked him to get something out of the blue suitcase in the car, and then he asked where something else was and I said 'the blue bag' meaning the one right in front of him in the house, but he thought I also meant the blue suitcase in the car - so he got grumpy accusing me of 'not giving him enough information' etc).

Then when that blew over we were in the car talking about upcoming scans and I asked if we were going to find out the sex this time. He said of course we would, we did last time, and I reminded him that I hadn't initially wanted to last time. He said 'ok you decide this time' and I said I'd rather we discussed it and decided together (like last time). He then said that he had given me 'what I wanted' and why was I arguing. I said I wasn't arguing, just wanted us to discuss and choose together. He said he would never discuss it again. Kept repeating that he was 'agreeing with me' while declaring that he would not talk about it with me again. When I said he wasn't agreeing with me because that wasn't what I wanted he shouted and swore at me (with our baby in the back of the car :( ).

We then stopped talking and a few hours later he apologized for the shouting and swearing but said it was my fault for painting him into a corner. He said we could talk about whether to find out the gender if I wanted. I went to bed.

This morning he was acting like nothing had happened, I was talking to him as necessary for getting our baby up but when he tried to start another conversation I just said I really didn't feel like talking to him. He accused me of giving him the silent treatment. I said I was talking to him, just feeling pretty upset.

He repeated that he had been 'agreeing' with me and I had argued with him and what could he do. I said he hadn't been agreeing. He said I was 'gaslighting' him.

I then told him what I had been feeling, which was that I had been so much happier away from the arguing and stress. (I didn't tell him that I didn't miss him at all, but that's how I feel. Without him I was happy).

He said he had apologized but I was continuing the 'abuse' and 'gaslighting' him over what happened.

I just want out. I just want my baby and then one to come out of this place where they will hear shouting and swearing.

That isn't justified even if you think a person is annoying

Abuse isn’t being annoying.

The Op said it in her first post and then further down. There is no drip feed.

I didn't feel it helped. I felt I was given various suggestions for managing his behaviour (i.e. if I immediately apologized whether it was my fault or not rather than trying to explain it defend my choices it would cut off the argument. It did work when I tried it for a period, but I don't particularly want to walk on egg shells constantly apologising for existing...)

hhhmmm I find it hard to believe a councilor would tell you to apologise all the time to manage his behaviour....... maybe he/she was trying to get you to manage yours? It does sound like it was your fault in your op tbf

I'm sorry, I agree you're in the wrong. But having behaved in quite a moody way when I was pregnant I am not blaming you. I think you need to be aware of this and try and do your best to remember that you may not be acting rationally. It sounds like he is trying.

He isn't trying very hard if he shouts at her every day.

The Op said it in her first post and then further down. There is no drip feed

She said it happened in the car. I’m in no way justifying him shouting and swearing, but the fact you can’t see abuse when it’s laid out in front of you is quite sad.

I’ll bow out of this thread now, since it’s going nowhere and isn’t helpful.

But to play the victim when you are the abuser is absolutely abhorrent.

It minimises the experiences of women who have been abused, and means we are less likely to be believed if we ever do report it. Which is why I was so angry.

Wow - I really don't get how the OP is an 'abuser' - there is so much projection on this thread.

OP - as I said your posts are a bit unclear - maybe that's your style of writing or maybe you are just feeling too emotional atm. On the basis of the conversation you described nobody can really come to any firm conclusions regarding what is going on - to me you both sound a bit immature . Why don't you try to explain the marriage a bit more - why you went for counselling in the first place and what it is you want from DH that you aren't getting now?

Shouting and swearing at someone is abusive, I see it clearly enough.

You: Are we going to find out the sex this time?
He thinks: We did last time, so she must be OK with that. I don't care, so I'll make her happy.
He says: Sure, we did last time.
You: But I didn't want to last time!
He thinks: Oh, OK, then she isn't OK with it. I don't care, so I'll make her happy.
He says: OK, then we won't.
You: But I want to discuss it!
He thinks: So "Yes" was wrong and "No" was wrong; not sure how that discussion will go.
He says: I agreed with you, why are we arguing?
You: But you didn't agree with me!
He thinks: I tried to, but whatever I said was wrong...and now she's telling me my perception of reality is wrong. Didn't I read something about that on Mumsnet?

This is not how it went at all. I've tried describing it several times. This is obviously not word perfect but the gist was more:

Us: Conversation about scans etc
Me: oh, and we'll have to decide if we are finding out the sex this time.
Him: We are. We did last time. Nothing to decide.
Me: well, we discussed it last time, I didn't want to then you said blah blah, so we talked about blah and then decided to if you remember...
Him: You decide.
Me: I don't want to dictate, would be nice if we could have a discussion...
Him: I've decided. I'm not discussing it any further. You are getting what you want which is to decide.
Me: but you've misunderstood that's not what I want..
Him: shouting and swearing.

I can't see how the OP is abusive either, the conversation about the blue bag was a misunderstanding and the scan was muddled. I also think there is a lot of projection here. One thing abusers do it make you think it's all your fault.

OP if you are unhappy and he shouts and swears at you I would think about leaving. It won't get any easier with the stresses of a new baby.

So more along the lines of what Whatsinaname100 said?
Ommi, you've said what you want to do, what's stopping you? You don't have to prove anything, you don't even need a label for anyone, you can just go ahead with doing your thing. Do you think he would become aggressive?

If you're so unhappy in this relationship why don't you just leave?

Because I keep stupidly thinking it will get better. I was so happy going home. Brilliant week away, home to the man I love, full of excitement about the pregnancy. Then befire the end of the day everything is awful and I'm wondering why I came home.

I keep think I will leave and then that I won't. Scared. I know. Pathetic.

I can't see how the OP is abusive either, the conversation about the blue bag was a misunderstanding and the scan was muddled. I also think there is a lot of projection here. One thing abusers do it make you think it's all your fault.

Are you saying that you think those who disagree with the OP are actually abusers themselves or have I totally misunderstood your post?

He sounds very ill-tempered. Has he always been like this?

He won’t be living with them, because you are deciding to separate because of abuse.

This is getting ridiculous. I haven't even left yet and people are having a go at me for living arrangements they've dreamed up. Why do you think you have any idea what residence/contact we would each have?

OP, ok fine, you’re right, have it your way. I’m too tired to keep arguing. Think what you want, do what you want, I give in.

Sound familiar?

Are you looking for things because you’re just not happy anymore?

The stress about minor misunderstandings like the bag, and the shouting at me is what I am unhappy about. Other than that the relationship is good.

I mean her husband made it her fault that he thought she said suitcase when she said bag.

When you say you are scared to leave, do you mean that you are scared he would become aggressive?

It doesn't sound that good from what you’re saying on here though.
It doesn't sound like either of you are that happy.

It’s ok to not want to be a couple anymore.

"Us: Conversation about scans etc
Me: oh, and we'll have to decide if we are finding out the sex this time.
Him: We are. We did last time. Nothing to decide.
Me: well, we discussed it last time, I didn't want to then you said blah blah, so we talked about blah and then decided to if you remember...
Him: You decide.
Me: I don't want to dictate, would be nice if we could have a discussion...
Him: I've decided. I'm not discussing it any further. You are getting what you want which is to decide.
Me: but you've misunderstood that's not what I want..
Him: shouting and swearing."

I think if you had posted this in your OP you would have had different responses.

It's clear that you wanted a discussion, and not him or you dictating what happens.

Him shouting at you for half an hour must be soul-destroying. It is abuse, I don't know why people are trying to convince you it isn't.

Well done for knowing that you don't want to put your babies through it anymore. You've got your priorities straight. On balance, I think YANBU and right to leave him.

Sounds to me and your posts read as if you got annoyed because his first answer wasn't phrased the way you wanted.

You: we need to discuss what we are doing about finding out the gender.
Him: well we had this discussion before and we found out after discussing the pros and cons. So I assume we are doing it again.
But worded as "we'll find out as we did before"

You: well I didn't want to previously (sounds like well you won last time) so I want to discuss it.

Him: considers that he got what he wanted and so says "ok, you decide this time".

You: I want to discuss it.

So basically you want to have the same discussion you've already had and have no idea what you want from the discussion - but know the last outcome.

So what is it you want from the discussion? To convince him his reasons are wrong and you shouldn't find out? To have the same discussion - agree with him but remind him of a 3rd child comes along he made the decision the first 2 times?

I work with someone like this and they are EXHAUSTING. Any team meeting where we've all put our views in and manager has made an agreement - but her views weren't the ones that one - she can NEVER let it go. She still bleats one about things discussed 3 year ago

Shouting and swearing is not good. No one suggests it is. But he didn't scream and shout because you didn't have a coffee for him he lost his rag because whatever he said was wrong and he couldn't give a 3rd option because in yes or no situations they just don't exist!

Maybe if you could give some other examples - why you went to couple's counselling, it might help?

We went to counseling because conversations would frequently end with him shouting and swearing at me, like the one I outlined in my post. There's too many to list. It always seems to come back to some sort of misunderstanding, but normal people have misunderstandings without it leading to full shouting, don't they?