Mind games. Tying me in knots!

[woosey35]

Dh can be the most charming man. He can show me love, affection etc. But more so he can show me disapproval. I don’t feel he respects anything I do. He’s got to be better than me. He never seems proud of anything I do.
If he’s tired he becomes aggressive. He’s verbally threatening. I’ve tried standing up for myself but he then turns it round on me saying I’ve made him behave like that because I just ‘go on at him’. I really don’t though. I try and smooth things over all the time. Try and make our lives calm etc. Yesterday he became tired and flipped again. Out of the blue swearing at me and throwing things in temper onto the ground. I didn’t react this time. Just stood and watched him in disbelief. He stopped, looked at me and then told me to take my ‘f-ing angelic face off’, and my ‘f-ing soft voice somewhere else’. I walked away. He then later asked if I’d calmed down enough for him to be able to speak normally!!!!!! He ties me in knots..I want to know what to say to him for him to know I’m not a walk over. For him to be clear I don’t intend to argue or give his moods power!!
This morning, we were chatting normally over breakfast. Inside I was still hurt but I acted as normally as possible, and engaged fully in conversation. As he got up, he told me I was ‘sulking and my face wasn’t filled with fun!’
I seriously love him and love his nice side. But I feel I almost have to earn it and be grateful to see that side. And if I don’t meet the grade, I see his punishment. Believe me....if I knew how to 100% meet the grade, I’d do it!! I try but it’s so volatile

Exh was-and is- a lovely man to everyone. He was occasionally to me. But mostly he was just emotionally (and financially) very cruel. It's a nice/nasty cycle where you start believing you can behave differently to change how they treat you- if only you hadn't asked him to help with the kids lunchboxes for once or if only you'd lost a stone or two so he was proud of how you looked instead of sneering or if only you earned more so he could spend his money on stupid fancy cars instead of having to spend his cash on the family. These are things that should be the baseline for a relationship, not things you have to hold out slim hope for.

Basic kindness and tolerance was utterly lacking in exh. Your husband sounds the same. I choose to believe that this was not a deliberate choice, it's how our relationship evolved over 20 years, but I pity his new partner because she seems nice and kind. My 3 kids love her. But these men have something broken inside and it really can't be fixed, not properly. You deserve so so much more woosey, and that's not being selfish. It's what everyone deserves from a relationship and no matter how long you have been together, you owe it to the bright, eager-for-the-world young woman you were before meeting him to change the situation.

The 2 straws that broke the camel's back for me was firstly, realising that as my 40th loomed, I was a shell of my former self with another 40 years of the same situation stretching out in front of me. It was intolerable. Secondly, that I was raising my 3 sons to think it was acceptable to treat someone you love this way or that they should put up with the same behaviour from their life partners. Again, intolerable.

Something must have changed in you for you to be thinking along these lines?

Yes, everything that Geranium has said.

I drove (and still drive myself sometimes) mad thinking of all the things I should have said and done differently, and how if I’d have done x y z then my ex wouldn’t have behaved the way he did, that he wouldn’t have verbally abused me, that he wouldn’t have drunk himself into stupors, that he wouldn’t have been so angry, that he wouldn’t have given me whiplash.

He conditioned me to believe it was MY behaviour that was the problem. I MADE him the way he was. It was MY fault.

I began to doubt everything I did, every decision I made. Nothing I did was ever right. The goal posts were constantly changing.

Yes, he could be lovely. And to the outside world he’s charming for the most part. But ultimately I was his punchbag and nothing was ever going to change that.

Geranium is right, these men have something broken inside that can’t be fixed. And they won’t think twice about destroying you.

Crikey..you read my mind. The nice/nasty cycles, the ‘if Only I hadn’t asked him...”. I asked him to put the bin out and he literally lost the plot. I don’t ask him now, I do it!! I can’t ask him anything as it’s like I’ve stabbed him in the heart!! I take on everything in order for life to run as smoothly as possible. I’m physically exhausted. Our dd is very ill....I do all the hosp appointments, all the medication and meetings. He says it’s ‘a waste of his time’. Then when I cry that life is failing her, he gets cross with me.
I think he has got something broken inside. He used to recall how he threw things around at work when he first started out at 19, and was told to reign it in. He’s always had a temper. His last divorce was on grounds of his lack of empathy to his wife.

I’m so fed up. I truly love him and I hate myself for that. If it wasn’t for love, I’d have run.

Why do you love him? Why do you love someone who treats you with such hatred?

That's a genuine question.

I don’t know. Maybe because when he’s civil, it feels perfect. That’s probably hard to understand. I don’t understand either. But just maybe I’ve fallen for the chance to see his eyes smile at me.
I can’t believe I’m saying this but I wonder what I’d do without him. How would I cope. How would I live. Who on earth would want me

Woosey you wouldn't cope.

You'd thrive. Honestly.

And start to live again. I've found such pleasure in small things- I can buy whatever cheese I fucking like in the supermarket now! And if dc and I stay up later than normal one night because we are having fun together, so bloody what! Who is going to say we shouldn't and give me evils for 2 days because I broke a rule I didn't even know existed?! If I want to buy chalk pens for them to write on my French doors because it's fun then so I bloody well shall.

Life is colourful now, it used to be just black and white.

(I have had to learn how to trust my own judgement again- and that is a work in progress- but I'm just about to buy my own house after he nearly left me without a penny and he can shove that right up his arse)

What do you get out of this relationship? Another genuine question (kindly meant). How would you feel if your daughter had to put up with what you are putting up with at some point in the future?

Woosey, I think you’ve got into the habit of putting up with things. You’ve been with him for 20 years, and I’m guessing it hasn’t always been like this? That you’ve begun to realise, at some point, that things could be different, better? You clearly know something is amiss or you wouldn’t have posted here.

But look,here’s the thing .... it doesn’t matter even if you had snapped at him, or been unkind, or selfish .... none of those behaviours means you deserve to be treated the way he treats you. No one deserves that.

This is all about him, his wants, his needs, his behaviour You are almost incidental to him, you’re just a fool for his abusive and bullying ways.

And what about your daughter? How old is she? Do you want her to grow up thinking that what your and your H have is a healthy relationship? Because it isn’t.

All this - for the sake of 1 man?

When you've had enough you'll leave him OP. Just as well because when you're totally ground down by the pre-occupation and carrying out of all these different strategies and actions or non-actions to get him to be how you want him to be (& it won't work) then he'll be done with you.

You'd be best off reading the books suggested to you in thread and taking it from there. They are a good start to making you really think about why you are demeaning yourself by staying with an oaf such as this, and to realise you don't have to lack self-worth just because they do.

I want to know what to say to him for him to know I’m not a walk over.

Based on what you've said about how he treats you, I'm thinking "I'm worth more than the way you treat me. This relationship is over."

People respect him in business because he’s actually very good.

No they don't. They tolerate him because he's got control of access to something they want or need. The minute he loses that control, they'll walk away and never look back.

I've seen this happen several times. Men who have a lot of success and power and think everyone respects them, but it's actually just a high-level game of "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours".

All this energy you're spending on Getting It Right and Winning Every Interation with this abuser is energy you could be spending on your daughter and yourself. You can't let this up long term, you'll break down. You can't live on High Alert for years at a time, when you're doing that your body is releasing adrenaline cortisol and utilising coping mechanisms that are only supposed to get you through temporary fight or flight situations. The body cannot cope with that long term, you will become ill, I speak from bitter experience.

I would not do what sushi advised, its highly provoking to a n abusive man and therefor extremely damgerous. Men who emotionally and verbally abusive, manipulative and controlling (your husband is all of those btw) are 100% capable of turning physically abusive (i learned this from experience) once they realise that their tried and tested methods are failing to work.

Ive been where you have been, in all honesty you are wasting your time, putting your mental health at risk and showing your daughter exactly how to have a toxic unhealthy relationship. Im not exagarating when i say she is at a much greater risk of ending up in an abusive relationship.

You can not manage his abuse by moderating your behaviour. Trust me i tried and all i ended up with was a good hiding and ptsd. The only way you can empower yourself is to accept that he is abusive. Admit thatyour relationship is toxic and start making plans to leave. Your husband needs therapy especially designed for perpertrators of domestic abuse and you need to wake up to the fact that this is beyond your management and get the help.you need to build your daughter and you the healthy home you deserve.

Sound advice ALittleBitConfused

Glad you and your daughter are away from it now

What ALittleBitConfused wrote here apart from her reference to therapy for your so called H.

You cannot be either a rescuer or saviour here.

Counselling for you though is a must do; Womens Aid can and will help you here on 0808 2000 247

What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?

His actions are about power and control and he wants absolute over you and in turn your DD. What you see from him in his so called nice side is the nice part of the cycle of abuse. This nice/nasty cycle of abuse is also a continuous one.

What do you want to teach her about relationships and just what is she learning here from you both?. Would you want her to be in such a relationship, you need to stop teaching her that this is still acceptable to you. If its not good enough for her then it is not good enough for you.

Unfortunately such men are averse to therapy in any case and such courses have exceedingly low success rates when it comes to therapy. Many such men on these courses gain further information as to how to manipulate and control further. It would also take far more than a short term course to even scratch the surface so it does not work.

He does this because he can (you are still there) and it works for him. One or even both of his parents are most likely the same too, this can be learnt behaviour and thus deeply ingrained.

He has a problem with anger, your anger when you call him out on his unreasonable behaviours.

But is there any way to, smile sweetly, take the ball out of play and be empowered?? Without being ‘patronising or nicey nicey’. I want to learn to be strong and in control without being aggressive or offensive. I want to KNOW I’m the better person and that I haven’t made him angry by doing something wrong.

The short answer to this above is no. You will only start to recover from his abuses of you when you and in turn your DD are fully removed from him. Until that happens your own recovery will not start. Men like he can take an awful long time, years even, to recover from. He will in all likelihood continue to be obstructive re your DD when you are finally rid of him too, such men feel entitled to act like this and honestly feel they are doing nothing wrong here.

You've had 20 years of being married to him and I would think for much of that time he has continued to ramp up the power and control against you. Such men can be very plausible and charming to those in the outside world but their true nature emerges behind closed doors. He was I daresay all sweetness and light in the early days.

You do not have to set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. You have a choice re this man, your DD does not. She has to follow your lead.

I hope you can see that it really doesn't matter what you do, it will always be wrong in his eyes if he is in a mood. You have written so much about the various things you have tried to keep the peace. The only thing that will change his behaviour is him. You can't make him do that and it doesn't sound like he has any intention of trying, so your choices really are put up with it or leave.

I do understand that it is not that easy, and it will take time to get to the point where you can leave, but I really hope you do get there in the end. If you can cope with living in the situation you are currently in, and still have the strength to try and improve things, I have absolutely no doubt you would flourish without his negative influence on your life. You sound very strong.

They criticise 'the look on your face' because it's impossible for you to deny it. You can't see your own face. I used to get 'why are you talking to me in that tone of voice?' I was using a perfectly normal tone of voice, asking if he'd fed the cat... but how can you deny something like that? If I said 'what tone of voice?' I'd get 'there you are, you're doing it again, you're accusing me of not feeding the cat!'

It was all in his head. My inadequacies, my 'tone of voice', it was all in his head. All him. All designed to upset me, so he could stomp off and do his own thing, leaving me with the kids, because he was 'upset'. Your DH is doing the same to you, woosey. He's putting it all on you so that he can go and do his own thing, live his own life, whilst you paddle away in the background trying so hard to make everything 'nice' for him.

Why would he change? It's all going his way.

Zaphod- omg that’s exactly what hE does. Tells me I’ve spoken wrong or looked wrong, then raged, then tells me to ‘stop looking all confused when I know damn well what I’ve done’. If I ask him to tel me what Ive done, he can’t. And then screams that I’m ‘getting at him and can’t cope anymore’ then stomps off in a rage to do his own thing. He then leaves me utterly confused and dumb founded. A) I don’t know where it all came from, out of the blue and critical over my voice/face. B) when I ask what he means it makes him angrier but can’t tel me exactly what he’s angry about.
So bloody confusing and leaves me swirling. But can’t continue with thit conversation because he’s already in ‘the rage stage’

woosey35
Sorry bit it doesn't sound like you have stood up to him at all it sounds like you are letting him away with this behaviour. He is mentally abusing you and soon this could end up as physical abuse. How old is your Dd?

Get out of there and tell him his behaviour is fucking rediculous and pathetic. You should never let anyone treat you like this.

I divorced mine, woosey. Brought up five kids on my own (for most of their lives) rather than live with a guy who didn't like the look on my face. There was other stuff too, low level, like never putting his dirty washing in the laundry basket (why would he? Why keep a dog and bark yourself?) and not keeping the house immaculate like his mother would have done.

He was a tit and I am so well rid of that one.

He sounds mean towards you - what critical and spiteful comments. A real bully. Does he bring the best out of you or the worst? And conversely does it feel like you're bringing the worst out of him or the best? This isn't a good relationship to be in. There are people out there who will make you shine with happiness and surround you in love. He ain't one of them. He's a twat.

His last divorce was on grounds of his lack of empathy to his wife.

So it's not you, is it? Though I think you know that.

It's all been said upthread. I'll add one thing. I hope it sticks in your mind.

Growing up with this man in her home will destroy your daughter's self-esteem and sense of identity. Don't tell yourself he'll be different with her, he loves her, he's a great dad.

NONE of those things are true. He doesn't know how to love someone. He isn't a good dad because he isn't a good, fair, kind or even bloody normal person capable of meeting the basic standard of good parenting. The first day she's old enough to understand and absorb the way he speaks to you, the way adult relationships in her home are played out will be the day the damage starts... if he's nicey nicey loving fun daddy to her by comparison, I can only imagine it'll be even more of a headfuck. Stay, and you are far far more likely to watch your DD grow up and choose an abusive man herself.