Mind games. Tying me in knots!

[woosey35]

Dh can be the most charming man. He can show me love, affection etc. But more so he can show me disapproval. I don’t feel he respects anything I do. He’s got to be better than me. He never seems proud of anything I do.
If he’s tired he becomes aggressive. He’s verbally threatening. I’ve tried standing up for myself but he then turns it round on me saying I’ve made him behave like that because I just ‘go on at him’. I really don’t though. I try and smooth things over all the time. Try and make our lives calm etc. Yesterday he became tired and flipped again. Out of the blue swearing at me and throwing things in temper onto the ground. I didn’t react this time. Just stood and watched him in disbelief. He stopped, looked at me and then told me to take my ‘f-ing angelic face off’, and my ‘f-ing soft voice somewhere else’. I walked away. He then later asked if I’d calmed down enough for him to be able to speak normally!!!!!! He ties me in knots..I want to know what to say to him for him to know I’m not a walk over. For him to be clear I don’t intend to argue or give his moods power!!
This morning, we were chatting normally over breakfast. Inside I was still hurt but I acted as normally as possible, and engaged fully in conversation. As he got up, he told me I was ‘sulking and my face wasn’t filled with fun!’
I seriously love him and love his nice side. But I feel I almost have to earn it and be grateful to see that side. And if I don’t meet the grade, I see his punishment. Believe me....if I knew how to 100% meet the grade, I’d do it!! I try but it’s so volatile

well you've only got to look at Dump to see how well bullies do in that kind of context

I have a horrible feeling you are just going to stay so I will bow out of the thread now.

I want to learn to be strong and in control without being aggressive or offensive.

You are never going to win with his man. He is a bully.

I'm worried that you are ignoring everyone on this thread who is telling you that he is abusive, as you seem to be fixated on changing your behaviour. But it's him that needs to change his behaviour!

But after years of treating you like this, I very much doubt that he will.

How long have you been together? Do you have children? Would you even consider the possibility of leaving.

He's abusive, he's also treating you like you've done awful things and you sound like you're starting to believe that yourself. I never say LTB but do you want your DD to see this behaviour? He should be setting an example. She will think this is the treatment she should accept.

But is there any way to, smile sweetly, take the ball out of play and be empowered?? Without being ‘patronising or nicey nicey’. I want to learn to be strong and in control without being aggressive or offensive.

You are NOT patronising. You are NOT 'nicey nicey' and you are NOT being offensive. He's made you feel like you are through his abuse.

Stop thinking about changing your behaviour.

No doubt he will move the goalposts again once you think you are getting it "right".

Leave him. He sounds like an utter arsehole.

But even if you could somehow magically navigate his behaviour, why would you want to be with a man who is even capable of being so bullying and nasty? You are not making him like this through things you do. This is who he is - even with other people! He sounds like a truly horrible person. Most horrible people can be charming when they get their own way. That doesn't mean they aren't horrible. It means they are controlling, calculating and manipulative.

Op... you are too passive.. u act like you are under his mercy.

The issue in this marriage is in two people:

• your insecurity makes him feel secure in being himself and not changing his behaviour

• his issues make him not in control of his abusive behaviour that he desperately turns to manipulation because he doesn’t wanna face how awefyl he has become. I suspect he became like this over time ...

I reassure you , you are both very miserable in this relationship because of ur internal issues... you are both using this relationship as a way to avoid facing your own issues ...

-You need to stop being insecure ... find validation within urself and find love within urself.. when he makes u feel good about urself because of nice things he says don’t rely on that, make urseld feel good about urself. Ur husband is struggling with his own issues and doesn’t know how to love unconditionally at the moment so - no one cares if he thinks ur an angel now he will say ur a devil later . He sounds a bit unstable. U need stability , so get validation from urself..

Now this is easier said than done. This is very very hard. And it’s not made easier by a relationship thats dragging u down..

Ur husband needs therapy. U might need therapy too. Have u both tried it ? I bet he doesn’t want to go because he doesn’t wanna face his flaws...

If u care for him... love him... u must stop giving him things to help him camouflage his flaws.. by that I mean :

• he is using ur flaws to deter from facing his .. to a point he expects perfection from u and is becoming far from it himself... but ur human OP, and should be happy to stay human.. ur not designed or creates to worship him or please him with every detail u do in ur life ...

Don’t feed his expectations and ego.. make it clear that ur not there to please him with everything, through ur actions/reactions..

But for that u need to be secure ... if ur insecure and keep running after his signs of affection he will keep manipulating u through this ..

So next time he says something critical about u... it it’s abusive... don’t smile and nod... don’t have an angelic face.. because ur showing him that u believe him when he points the blame at u for being the cause of his aggression ..

What u must do is :

When he is raging , wall away and stay peaceful. Omxd he is calm :

• look at him confidently and say : “oh is that what you think? Because I feel I did a very good job and I’m gonna go treat myself for my hard work ”. And walk away confidently.

• if he continues, say : “ I think you are going through stress today and taking it out on me, when you are ready to respect me let me know”.

• when he talks to u, says I love u... tell him that respect is more important to u than love, because love dies when there is little appreciation and respect ..and tell him u feel ur love for him would’ve been more if he was not this disrespectful and that u worry ur love might fade away...

-if he continues , ask him to go therapy or to a common relative/friend to help resolve the issue ..

Stick to ur grounds and don’t accept blame , and don’t behave like ur internalising his criticism...

• if he shows no sign of change.. leave him.. ur both stuck in a cycle and both miserable

YUMMysushi - thank you so very much. That’s exactly the advice I wanted. I wanted a staged approach that I can try. To show strength. I used to be strong but I’ve forgotten how to be. I will definately use your advice. Thank you loads

As for therapy there is no way he would!! He definately uses me to disguise his flaws. I see him doing it to people at work and also his family. If he doesn’t get his own way, he becomes spiteful. If he does anything wrong at work, he will do anything to convince people it wasn’t him.
He tells me he loves me, that he’s so lucky, that he’s ‘punching above his weight’ being married to me. Then he may feel tired, or get drunk (which makes him tired), or be stressed..and then he needs to elevate his own being. And to do that is to take power over me

In the nicest possible way you are his doormat. He enjoys walking on you and using you to clean his shoes on. It's not a good example for your daughter. Would you want her husband to treat her like this? Why do you deserve less than her?

And I second reading Lundy- Why does he do that. Very informative indeed.

Believe me....if I knew how to 100% meet the grade, I’d do it!!

You'd meet the grade 1000% by leaving him.

Don't be pandering to his "needs" and encouraging him to change. He won't.

Op it might be a while before you are feeling firm enough about What approach u want to take and to challenge ur inner voice of insecurity- because you have been in this unstable lifestyle for a while . But u must believe in urself and try get there..

But if it helps, right a journal .. keep it very private.. write a journal where u note day daily how u feel you have improved in reclaiming urself and ur sense of security and love ...

U might not know how to be assertive for a while because u been passive ... u might turn to aggression because of so much suppressed feelings... but if that happens, be gentle on urself and still don’t allow him to use that as an excuse to shift the blame ...

Assertiveness is being clear about how things make u feel and setting boundaries to protect ur feelings ..

Aggression is when u attack someone or undermine them in order to make urseld feel better.

One of u is gonna have to set an example from good assertivenessbin this relationship so that the passiveness and aggressiveness doesn’t need to flourish out of desperation.

Keep a journal and in the journal note down how situations make u feel and how u could’ve made him aware of those feelings better and how you could have clarified the lines he shouldn’t cross... with time it will become ur nature ..

For example... when ur having a moment of love and confidence... tell him I love it when you behave respectful towards me and wish you can be like this all the time... I understand that theee are moments u have anger and stress and it is ok for u to be angry ... if u feel like I’m pressing ur buttons , or that u want to be left alone ... just say to me I need time alone I feel like ur pressing my buttons .. but saying rude things or putting me down to feel better about urself isn’t Love ... Love means u care about the person being happy and emotionally healthy... we need to grow together and not destroy each other....

Anyhow I’m not a relationship expert, but I know exactly what ur going through and want to break it down for u so that u feel a bit confident and empowered..

Whether U want to leave or not that’s a choice u need to make but ... whether you want respect or not, that’s somerhing u can Definately enforce ...

Also let him know that u decided to change to save the relationship before you call it quits... tell him u love him and want this to work and that if it was anyone else you would’ve left him ages ago , but that u love him enough to try and that u decided u want to be open with him about what u expect in a relationship and how he makes u feel ... because ur relationship is too toxic now that u either do that or u leave him.. and u chose to fix it by forcing him to control his behavior

Thanks again yummy. I told him a couple of weeks ago (the time I gained strength from somewhere to be honest) that this is toxic and poisonous and sad. And that we’d accomplished so much as a couple over the last 20years and how devastating it is that it’s being destroyed. I also emailed him around the same time (he can’t tel me to F off when I’m trying to speak). I told him that I was sad that my husband, the man I should call my rock was not there to comfort me and I was having to turn to others for comfort. And also how my husband was happy to see me sob in pain and not feel the need to make me feel better. He actually responded well to this..but it was short lived.

I think he’s too wrapped up in his own needs, and that he needs to feel good about himself. So if he feels tired or has had a bad day..he can throw his anger on me and then take the responsibility of his actions off himself

He's a psycho! Crazy people can't be reasoned with. You don't want to have to deal with that on a day to day basis. Leave run and be free !!

This gave me chills OP. He will never change. Do yourself a favour and ltb. Honestly. You deserve better than this.

He sounds so much like my ex. I spent so much energy trying to reason with him. It only tied me in knots. It was a complete waste of my energy.

So if he feels tired or has had a bad day..he can throw his anger on me and then take the responsibility of his actions off himself

So you're happy to be his verbal punchbag? Really?

Please be kind to woosey everyone, as if she's going to leave him after 20 years of this just because strangers on the internet say she should!

Woosey your posts could have been mine. Start off small, read the Lindy Bancroft book and start dreaming what life could be like. Just thinking about it, you dont need to take any steps towards it!

Then come back here and chat some more, read others experiences and let yourself believe that this really is what's happening to you. I struggle with this now even when your experiences are so so similar to mine and EVERY.SINGLE.POST says "it's abuse"- was it really that bad? AIBU?

My exh minimised any feelings of sadness or worry or anything that might need him to change his behaviour, to the extent that I couldn't feel any of the happy emotions either- joy, elation, excitement, silliness- because I was trained to keep everything level so that I didnt somehow get caught in his line of sight. Because he'd use it against me. It's no way to live and I promise promise promise you that he's conditioned you into thinking its all you, you'll doubt yourself and worry whether he actually has a point and you're just a bit nuts, like he says.

You're not. Do the reading, give yourself the benefit of the doubt and come back to mn (or anywhere! Somewhere!) for more support. Because that nagging little feeling at the back of your mind that says maybe, just maybe it's not me and maybe I do deserve to be heard and respected and loved put on a pedestal every so often, its bloody right that voice.

Massive potted, I love ur post

Massive potted. How kind. You really have hit the nail on the head in everything you say. I really do know I’m not as horrid as he makes out. I know that sounds arrogant but I promise I’m not. I do sometimes thing I drive him to be angry though. I just have two heads in that one says ‘you’re weak and subservient’ and the other says ‘omg what the hell!! He’s a complete dick!’ I have so many lovely friends. They all tell me to stand up for myself. It’s easier said than done tho. I promise I will try and try to gain strength. And will read and read.

So tonight..I was well dressed and make up on. He couldn’t tell me I looked rough etc. I chatted about his day and was very attentive. He then looked at me and said ‘you’re being very defensive, the look on your face and tone of your voice is like your on egg shells and not being normal’. I really thought I’d tried. Really tried. He was picking an arguement. I did what yummy said and said ‘you must’ve had a stressful day’. I then said what a positive day I’d had and how the kids had been well behaved etc. He couldn’t then pin his moods on the fact I’d had a tricky day. He does this often. I didn’t ask for affection. He then asked for a hug. I gave him a quick hug and then was ‘busy’. I feel proud and in control tonight. For now!! Things can change incredibly quickly tho. He’s now led on sofa, so will become tired very soon and therefore change I’m sure.
Massive potted - I think every day that it’s me and I’m nuts and I’m driving her mad. He tells me sometimes I’m goinf to give him a heart attack as he feels so stressed and it’s all my fault.

That ‘picking an argument’ exchange is exactly the sort of thing my ex would say to me when he felt like a fight. God, it’s exhausting having to think so much about your partner’s next move and anticipate what’s going on in their heads. What any reasonable person would have said is ‘You look a bit anxious, are you alright? Would you like a hug?’

I hope you have a peaceful night.

I have told him that if someone loves another human, all they want is that person to feel happy in their own skin. How he can not care if I don’t have a hug when I’m sobbing over our ill daughter cuts me the deepest

Oh my dear. This makes me feel so sad.

No one should have to play these stupid bloody games with someone who is supposed to love them. Seriously - it must be exhausting. Having to dress carefully, make up your face, school your expression, pick your words...

You need the strength to say calmly 'I cannot deal with your moods and your unpleasantness any longer and will be filing for divorce'. THAT is the empowerment you need. He sounds utterly, utterly vile.