Prenup advice

[prenupdebate]

Hi, I'm new so apologies if this is in the wrong place.
Basically, myself and my partner of almost 18 months have been thinking about marriage. Although this should be a happy and exciting time, we're unable to think seriously about it until we're both confident that we have the right processes in place... i.e. a prenup. My partner earns approx. £80k and is 34, has a lot of assets whereas I have very little. I have an ok job (around £20k and I'm 25) that doesn't pay loads, but I get by and we have both agreed it is ideal for when we have children as it's 'safe' and has good benefits.
I am more than happy to sign a prenup that will protect his assets - his house, car, savings and most importantly his company. These are all things he has done for himself before we even met, I have not earned them nor do I deserve or want them. What worries me is he seems to think this attitude should continue after marriage - that property, savings etc should remain his as 'he' will be buying them and that most likely our finances would be completely separate. He's very wishy washy on what he believes I would deserve if we marry and I give up work to become a mother to his kids and a glorified housekeeper.
I gave him a scenario that if we (or HE as he sees it) acquire £300k of assets over a 15 year marriage and have 2 kids, what would he see as a fair settlement and he couldn't answer. I said all I care about is knowing that if I have his children I will be able to put a roof over their heads and he said he doesn't see why he should give me a house in the case of divorce.
The whole thing is very unromantic, and I'm starting to see that perhaps he will always see his money as his money, no matter how much I sacrifice and the effort I put into him/us/our family. I'm very good to him, I give him all my time, I buy all the groceries and cook for him daily despite still living separately, and he knows I'll take care of him always, I often feel like he takes this for granted.
Am I being unreasonable here? I always thought a marriage was an equal partnership. If my parents had got divorced I'm certain my Dad wouldn't have dreamed of giving my Mum anything less than 50/50 despite the fact he technically 'paid' for the house, cars etc.
Please let me know your thoughts, as this is causing me a lot of heartache... I love him very much but I can't help but wonder if I want to be with a man who puts money above the ones he loves. He also has 2 children from a previous relationship that he doesn't pay enough for IMO.
I am not a gold digger, although I'm sure some will say I am. I have no interest in his existing assets and if he is made bankrupt tomorrow I'd still love him exactly the same. I'm simply concerned that if we marry, he'll makes his fortune, he'll leave me with a couple of kids and I'll be left with absolutely nothing.

He's controlling and financially abusive. He will not value your role as a sahm or any sacrifices you make to make his and your kids' lives more comfortable. His role will always be the most important as he's earning the money and that's the only thing he values.

As far as the prenup is concerned he'd still have to provide for you and your kids if you split up but whilst you're together I doubt you'd have equal freedom to spend the money or make decisions. He may give you some pocket money but it doesn't sound like he'll be generous.

Starlightmeteorite - my stbxh has told me numerous times that kids raise themselves.

Just another voice saying

Run

Now

Prenups are not legally binding in England. If I were you I would tell him that and ask if he still wants to go ahead with the marriage. If he is happy to marry you anyway it's a good sign. If not, you have your answer about the kind of man he is.

I have never had a boyfriend with money before, and most of my friends would say it is a benefit, but it has not benefitted me in any way shape or form - it has simply caused headaches and heartache.

The more I read the more I worry for you OP! It's not the money per se, it's him and his horrible tightness and expecting you to account for every penny or every penny HE spends on you, disgusting, what a massive turn off, marry him at your peril!

He earns 80K, you earn 20K but you have to explain to him every penny you spend of his, not that he spends much on you anyway, total tight arse, can't even provide for his own child!

You'd be mad.

I imagine he will pay himself little if we were to get divorced resulting in hardly any ongoing financial support.
I did take some advice from this thread and sent him the link to this thread, safe to say he is not happy. I’m upset as I was half expecting someone to tell me I was being unreasonable, I have a history of depression which has effected my career progression and I’m at a point in my life where I need to decide whether to turn my life around and become self sufficient, or do what we have discussed and marry and be a mother and home maker (which is something I have always known I wanted to do and be good at). Sounds like I should go with the former option.

This

legal advice (is there a legal part of MN?) and ask if assets post marriage are part of prenup

Anyone who doesn't pay for their existing DC , and owns a company, is perfectly placed to hide assets from a court.

@prenupdebate when you pay for and cook everyday, who does the washing up?

You'd be completely and utterly mad to marry such a pathetic excuse for a man. You'll be setting yourself up for a life of being unsupported, unappreciated and disrespected. Why would you want to do that to yourself?! He couldn't even remain charming and keep up the act of being a decent man for even 18 months, how unpleasant do you think he'll be after 5 years?
The fact he doesn't support his children is horrendous. I can't see how you could love a man like that.
I'm not even going to start on the fact that you think it's normal an 'nice' to do his shopping and cooking for him everyday!!!

People forget that marriage wasn't created for love. It was an institution that had property, wealth and security at the heart of it. The love part came later so, don't take it to heart. He's watching out for his future so you watch out for yours.

Ask him to pay for your own solicitor to advise you on a prenup. If you'll be staying in a low paying job because of flexibility for the children, you'll be financially worse off, so, you need a prenup that works for you.

A prenup doesn't have to mean you all keep what you came in with. It means we agree what happens in case of divorce. This could include £x for if he ends the marriage, £x if he acts unreasonably (affairs, abuse etc), £x for a similar home for you and the kids near point A, B or C, £x for each child you have or for each year you spend not working etc See how he feels when you bring it up and definitely don't become the exW struggling to make ends meet with the children.

So, this could work in your favour and protect you and your kids. Get your own solicitor and write up a prenup that you are happy with.

The trouble with marrying someone who owns their own business, is that theu csn make their income appear to be much less than it really is, when it comes to calculating child and spousal support.

I can totally understand someone wanting to protect assets they had from before the marriage - that seems fair, but once you do get married, new income/assets should belong to both of you. If you are not going to properly share a life, then what is the point of getting married?

I think if you marry him, you will forever be a guest in his home and life - nothing will be yours. Argue with him and don't do as you are told and he will cut off your access to money - imagine being a sahm and having no money which is yours!

He has already shown you what a mean man he is. You can do so much better than this - you can find someone who loves you too, who respects you and values what you bring to the relationship. This man knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
I'm not surprised his ex went for lump sum settlement - she clearly knows that he will use regular payment as a control mechanism. I doubt she is money grabbing or awful, she is probably just a woman trying to secure her children's wellbeing.

I'd run and not look back. Sure, you csn probably tie all this up in legal agreements, including specified support levels during the marriage, but do you really want to marry a man where you have to

We’re were in a similar financial position, but now married with 2 children. Husband pays for everything as I don’t work but he also gives me ‘my own’ money and he’s paid for me to further my education. He knows what an asset a housewife is and that if I vanished he’d not be able to earn the money he does.

safe to say he is not happy
Of course he's not.
His abusive ways have been highlighted to the person he was hoping would become his next 'victim'

Just because you wanted to do it and be good at it, doesn't mean you will be.
I wanted all that.
I had one child and 'no thanks very much'
You may not like it.
ALWAYS have your career.
Never EVER give that up.
You can take a break but never give it up.

No MAN anywhere in the world is worth giving up YOUR OWN future for!
He wouldn't do it for you.
Hell, he won't even consider treating you fairly financially.
He wants a mother for his kids. A maid, a cleaner, a cook, etc....
And you'll get nothing back for it.
Just don't do it to yourself.
You are 25.
You should be out enjoying yourself with friends.
Partying etc.......
Not cooking every night and cleaning for someone nearly 10 years older than you and being a part time step mum.
Please live your life.
You will regret it hugely if you don't!!!

This just sounds so unhealthy. When you’ve spent more time discussing the possible divorce than the wedding it doesn’t bode well.

Only you two know whether you can get past this somehow but massive alarm bells here. Tread carefully.

I feel like our relationship has come across much worse than it is. Yes I do the shopping and cooking, I work less hours so have more time to do this, and I love to cook. He takes me out weekly and the occasional night away, this has worked for us and I always thought this was fair. He has loaned me money when I've been hard up and he seems to love me.
His argument is I seem to be looking to gain more than if I was to marry a man on a average salary, and that it sounds like I want a piece of the pie.
In previous relationships we'd have silly conversations about what we would do if we won the lottery or could simply afford to, and I kind of miss feeling like I'm with someone who would do anything he could. I know I don't 'deserve' gifts, expensive holidays or money thrown at me, but I know if the shoe was on the other foot I'd be much more generous.
He is a good Dad to his kids, I'm not saying he doesn't pay for them, I'm saying I feel like he could pay more considering what he has. A more than fair agreement was in place that was paid on time without fail however that dissolved when ex kept going for more and more, this was all after a large pay out for the houses etc. He does still pay, but I do believe she is greedy but he is vengeful.
I am not making excuses, I'm just trying to paint the right picture to ensure everyone stands by their initial judgements.

The thread is pretty much unanimous in saying that you should not marry this mean. He is mean and showing he is financially abusive.

You’re determined to marry him, so go ahead. I hope we are all wrong.

Run.

I am not determined at all, I started this post to see if I was being unreasonable, it turns out almost everyone thinks I am not.
I have read what everybody has said and am so grateful that people have given up time to offer their 2 cents. I'm young and perhaps naïve so it's good to see other perspectives.
Lots of food for thought, and like everyone has said I doubt it'd ever get better x

What is fair is that you each benefit equally from being in the relationship, both have equal savings, spending money, assets, because you are a family

prenup please don't think you're skewing our responses because you're painting your relationship as "much worse than it is". There are certain things that are never acceptable in a healthy relationship regardless of how much else is good about it. By the way everything you've said so far that is "good" is actually just normal and to be expected. You can have all that with someone else who also values you as his equal. Without wishing to sound patronising many of us have learnt the hard way how these sorts of relationships end up and there are red flags all over the place regardless of the other stuff. My DH earns way more than me but he see this as something to be shared with the ones he loves. My ex on the other hand was all about the grand gestures that reflected well on him but day-to-day I had to beg him for money (my own!). You sound like an intelligent woman with a lot of love to give - please give it to someone who will love you equally in return.

" He also has 2 children from a previous relationship that he doesn't pay enough for IMO."

This is all you need to know. If he doesn't provide for the children he currently has, he's not going to give a shit about you and your future children.

I presume the special day for your birthday was for him as well.

Yes, it is something I’ve picked up on. Birthday/Christmas gifts tend to be experiences we can enjoy together.

our finances would be completely separate. He's very wishy washy on what he believes I would deserve if we marry and I give up work to become a mother to his kids and a glorified housekeeper.

This is the bit that screams out to me. What you deserve? If you have children you’re a partnership, a team! Not one person handing out the money based on whether or not he thinks you’ve been good enough or justify enough what you want to spend it on.

OP if you read mn enough you’ll find plenty of threads by women stuck as a sahm with no access to money, being handed out meagre pocket money by their husbands who think because they work they do fuck all else. Don’t become this. Don’t become financially abused either. It happens. Don’t make yourself vulnerable. And I don’t think you should have shown him this thread. What will he do now? Take something else away? You’re not a child but he’s treating you like one.

Yes I agree. I sent it early on hoping he’d see I’m not actually alone with my thoughts, as he seemed to think I was hugely ungrateful but he continues to call me ungrateful now. He is not being very nice to say the least.
I think it’s time to walk away with my head held high. I’ve given so much time, energy and sanity to this relationship and I’m finally seeing thanks to all the comments that I’ve been naive. We’ve had many other arguments that I’ve let slide but I can’t see how I can afford to waste more time on someone who has such different values to myself.
Thanks for all your support x