Prenup advice

[prenupdebate]

Hi, I'm new so apologies if this is in the wrong place.
Basically, myself and my partner of almost 18 months have been thinking about marriage. Although this should be a happy and exciting time, we're unable to think seriously about it until we're both confident that we have the right processes in place... i.e. a prenup. My partner earns approx. £80k and is 34, has a lot of assets whereas I have very little. I have an ok job (around £20k and I'm 25) that doesn't pay loads, but I get by and we have both agreed it is ideal for when we have children as it's 'safe' and has good benefits.
I am more than happy to sign a prenup that will protect his assets - his house, car, savings and most importantly his company. These are all things he has done for himself before we even met, I have not earned them nor do I deserve or want them. What worries me is he seems to think this attitude should continue after marriage - that property, savings etc should remain his as 'he' will be buying them and that most likely our finances would be completely separate. He's very wishy washy on what he believes I would deserve if we marry and I give up work to become a mother to his kids and a glorified housekeeper.
I gave him a scenario that if we (or HE as he sees it) acquire £300k of assets over a 15 year marriage and have 2 kids, what would he see as a fair settlement and he couldn't answer. I said all I care about is knowing that if I have his children I will be able to put a roof over their heads and he said he doesn't see why he should give me a house in the case of divorce.
The whole thing is very unromantic, and I'm starting to see that perhaps he will always see his money as his money, no matter how much I sacrifice and the effort I put into him/us/our family. I'm very good to him, I give him all my time, I buy all the groceries and cook for him daily despite still living separately, and he knows I'll take care of him always, I often feel like he takes this for granted.
Am I being unreasonable here? I always thought a marriage was an equal partnership. If my parents had got divorced I'm certain my Dad wouldn't have dreamed of giving my Mum anything less than 50/50 despite the fact he technically 'paid' for the house, cars etc.
Please let me know your thoughts, as this is causing me a lot of heartache... I love him very much but I can't help but wonder if I want to be with a man who puts money above the ones he loves. He also has 2 children from a previous relationship that he doesn't pay enough for IMO.
I am not a gold digger, although I'm sure some will say I am. I have no interest in his existing assets and if he is made bankrupt tomorrow I'd still love him exactly the same. I'm simply concerned that if we marry, he'll makes his fortune, he'll leave me with a couple of kids and I'll be left with absolutely nothing.

FGS, you want to marry a man that doesn't give a fuck about your welfare nor that of your and HIS own kids; I'd be telling him to do one, 80K a year and he's treating you like shit.

I suspect his Ex knew what he was like and given that they weren't married, was financially up shit creek, she did well in those circumstances.

You know you can't marry this man, let alone have kids with him. His 'entitled' views are entrenched and he wouldn't know the meaning of fair if it came up and slapped him.

Oh and cancelling the order after your row, is a tactic he will use again and it would be so much more effective if you were financially dependent on him for any period.

Run, dont walk.

OP he sounds so controlling and you sound so lovely please take a step back and look at your situation from a different point of view, what would you say to your friend, sister etc if it were them in this situation? Please don't let this man manipulate you like this, cancelling your order when you dare to disagree with him! So so mean. If you're thinking this now imagine how bad it could be a few more years down the line. I know it's easier said than done when you love someone but you don't sound happy to go along with this and it doesn't sound like he's going to change

God no don’t show him this thread.

Use the advice on here. Don’t marry him.

And stop cooking for him and ‘treating him’.

He placed an order for you for the first time ever and he’s cancelled it?

This is your future if you marry him, you’ll be beholden to him for every last penny. Imagine what will happen if you have children and you need to be on maternity leave, you’ll be dependant on his kindness for food, shelter and all your basics.

It’s great you love his kids and treat them well when they’re having contact. You shouldn’t be paying for them their food or anything that should be their father.

He’s seen you coming. I bet you’ve used up a larger percentage of your income on him than he has on ‘treating’ you over the duration of your relationship.

Hi,

I think it is a bit more complicated than many are making out.

He has clearly been bitten once and is now commitment shy.

I see nothing wrong with a prenup, but it should definitely be protecting his existing assets and not the (future) marital assets, especially if you intend to give up working and look after his children.

To reassure you a little, you cannot 'prenup' your (future) childrens' needs and he would have to pay you enough to maintain (roughly) the lifestyle that they enjoyed prior to the divorce, assuming he could afford it.

As the law currently stands, without a prenup, he would have to give you spousal maintenance for the rest of your life and maintain your 'needs', which divorce lawyers have a habit of greatly exaggerating. I can totally see why he would not want to do that, especially if you would not be sacrificing a high flying career to look after the children.

Where I can see where he is coming from is that there is no reason you should become very wealthy merely through spending 10 years of your life with him and having his children.

Fair, to me, is putting you back in the position you would have been having not married him with, of course, excellent provision for both of your children. That would include compensating you for loss of earnings, with reasonable promotions etc and loss of pension contributions. In addition, he would have to deal with your future genuinely reasonable needs.

All the above could be worded in a prenup and a court would take account of it (although it is not absolutely binding in law in the uk).

If he is coming from the above position, you need to have a meaningful conversation with him, having already taken legal advice of your own. If he just thinks he can marry you and have virtually no meaningful commitment to you, then why marry at all?

Do you know why he and his ex separated?

pre nups don't stand up in court in the UK. total waste of time. but this isn't the issue.

Run, as fast as you can away from this man, this isn't normal. DH earns £100k+ I am a stay at home parent. we are equal, he sees me as a vital part of allowing him to work like he does and enjoy a family life, which I am, and he never begrudges me a penny and we are equal. There is so much wrong with what you say, Please don't waste your time on him

Christ alive do not marry this man, he sounds fucking awful.

Dump him now and i promise you that you will look back on this as such a lucky escape.

I think they fell out of love, I know she cheated. She called one day and said herself and the children had moved out.
I'm not a bad person although I'm sure parts of this thread make me seem that way. He calls me ungrateful when really I'm worried about what I would be sacrificing (my youth, my potential career progression etc) and potentially being left with kids, having absolutely nothing, or very little when he will have so much. I would estimate he is currently worth at least £400k and will easily be worth twice that by his 40s, he has his own company and is very business smart. If he earns his millions it concerns me he 'doesn't see why he should buy me a house' when I would have sacrificed so much to have his children and support his career.
I have never had a boyfriend with money before, and most of my friends would say it is a benefit, but it has not benefitted me in any way shape or form - it has simply caused headaches and heartache.

He calls you ungrateful? For what?? And no you don't sound like a bad person at all.

Please would you mind clarifying whether you cook for/ help look after his kids when they visit?

It sounds like you don't have kids. that's good. run. fast.

I'm not sure. I'd also like to clarify that I spend 5/6 nights a week at his, he rarely stays at mine as I have a housemate. He tends to take care of date nights and times away and has booked us a holiday with the kids in the summer holidays. I did however pay for the majority of our holiday last year as I had booked and paid for it before we got together.
I do help look after the kids, and I'll sometimes cook for them. They often all stay with his parents (my boyfriend and the kids) when they are here, so when they are with us for the weekend I usually only see them for one night of the weekend but longer in holidays.

He has his own business?

No wonder the ex took as much as she could before she left.

Take a read of child maintenance stories on here of non resident parents who own their own companies and get away with paying the bare minimum or nothing at all for their children.

And why do you keep saying you’re not grateful?

What are you wanting to do, ring bells for him three times a day and flagellate yourself to show how unworthy you are to buy food for him and cook and clean for him and to keep house for him and to be at his beck and call?

So he finally does something nice for you by ordering something and then cancelled the order because you dared to disagree with him.
YEP!!
That's your future - right there!
Continue at your own peril.

I'm struggling to understand what you 'love' about this tight arse!??

Crying at my desk now! I was hoping for some constructive advice however everyone seems to think I should leave, which is what I was hoping not to hear

But I think you were half expecting to hear it, no?

It sounds like his ex, not being married to him, knew he wouldn't provide if he could help it and did her best to have something at the end of it.

He doesn't provide for the children he already has.

He has punished you for disagreeing with him by cancelling an order.

He appears to measure worth by money, your hard work and input in other ways won't register with him.

My constructive advice is only to echo what the majority have said. You'll never change his selfish sense of entitlement, and if you think there's an issue now it'll be nothing to future issues if he believes that what's his is his whether you're married or not.

He often does nice things for me. I've had a few interviews and he's been very supportive, he always listens to me and we have a lot of fun together. He cares for me in a lot of ways, but I do feel like he doesn't want to pay a penny for me unless I have earned it in some way.
There are times where he'll be very generous, like arranging an expensive day out on my birthday all on him. Other times I feel like he hates how little I earn. I'm a very generous person by nature, I don't have a lot but what I do have I'll share, so it's odd being with someone with a different attitude

Hi, there's a little bit of pre-nup misinformation here that I wanted to correct.
Contrary to what @user1466690252 said, pre-nups aren't a 'total waste of time' - they CAN stand up in court, but only in certain circumstances. The court will use their discretion to determine if the pre-nup was fair, and therefore whether or not it should be upheld. The factors they will look at when determining this will include whether both parties had independent legal advice before signing, the length of the marriage, whether there were any children, the source of the wealth, etc.
What this means for you is that a pre-nup that sought to protect the wealth your DP generated before he met you, any inheritance of his, etc, could very well be upheld - particularly if you're not married for long and have no children. But a pre-nup that tried to keep your finances separate and keep the income he generated through the marriage for him alone would certainly NOT be upheld. The court's starting point is always 50-50, and it takes a lot to depart from that. People can't simple 'opt out' of a 50-50 starting point by making a contract between themselves. No court would allow your DP (or DH as he would be then) to say 'Well, during this marriage I've made £100K a year and you've made only £20K, so all the money I've earned should be mine' - not even if you'd signed a pre-nup agreeing that. And nor should they!
I just wanted to give you some idea of what the law is here, but ultimately I agree with all other posters - it sounds like your DP doesn't view marriage as a partnership and thinks that his contribution, as breadwinner, is more important than your (potential) contribution as mother. For me, that would make me seriously, seriously consider whether or not I wanted to marry him.

You don't sound like a bad person. Where have you got this from?

He thinks you're ungrateful - so what is it you should be grateful for?

He, on the other hand, sounds absolutely awful.

OP, you don’t appear ungrateful to me in the least. Quite the opposite. You appear to have wonderful of qualities lots of guys would want.

The cancelling of a gift for you after an argument is both petty and vindictive. These are not good traits.

Many men, including myself, earn far more than there respective partners. However, behind every successful guy stands a steadfast and loyal wife. What’s mine is my wife’s. Full stop.

My advice to you....don’t rush into this union. He sounds controlling. Financial control removes freedom of action.

All the best. Cleaver Greene

Christ alive.

Don't marry him. Don't have kids with him. And for the love of all that is holy don't give up work.

As PPs said he's shown you your future if you marry him - being financially controlled, punished if you argue or disagree and forced to "earn" every penny.

So he's nice to you occasionally and capable of listening. So what? You're way over weighting the fact that he isn't a complete arse every minute. Please raise your standards.

Your different attitudes to money and sharing would make marriage a complete disaster. I too see completely why his ex exercised her rights and asked for a lump sum. Bully for him if he feels bruised by the whole thing - she was entitled to 50% and like PPs I'd bet my life she takes the bigger financial hit overall by caring for the kids.

Yes, to be honest I don't really care about what would be upheld in court, it's more the fact that this is his attitude towards me, a marriage, a family etc that is the problem. There have been several red flags throughout the relationship that I've ignored hoping that it would all be worth it in the end; but perhaps we simply have different attitudes towards money and what a marriage is and I doubt we can overcome that.

My god woman 50/50 is 100% unfair with those earning differences!

Dont waste your time. He will no doubt get creative with accounts to prevent you from getting fair maintenance. His ex obviously knew this.

You can do better. Find someone who values YOU for what you would bring. Being a mother to his children, sorting the home and supporting him deserves 50% of whatever he earns during that period. If he doesnt believe thats a valuable life choice then he isnt worth your time.

Sorry I keep banging on about the potential step parenting aspect of your relationship - as a step parent myself it is absolutely vital that your partner respects you and doesn't take advantage otherwise when you're a few years in it's hell on earth skivvying for someone else's kids without recognition and the ensuing resentment is the cause of many a step parenting relationship to fail. From what you've said so far alarm bells and red flags abound in your partner's treatment and attitude towards you both financially and in general, I really can't see you being happy once the honeymoon period has worn off, sorry. And as for being generous on your birthday, that's normal not a plus point! It's how he treat you day-to-day that counts and he sounds like you should be eternally grateful to him and sod what you bring to the relationship because he doesn't value it unless it has monetary value.

If he is like this now it will only get worse. The fact he begrudges spending money on his dc speaks volumes about the kind of person he is.

I expect you'll stay with him though, and if you do protect yourself.

Do not give up your job. Ever. Even if you have children. Protect your career and future earning potential as you never know when you may need them, and once they're gone they're gone.

Do not take on all the housework. If he won't split it 50:50 pay someone else to do it. By that I mean pay 50:50. He won't value anything you do so make him pay. That way he'll realise it is actually work. My ex once said 'well the house keeps itself'. No it F-ing doesn't. His assessment of what I added to the partnership was pretty much nothing. I did literally everything at home.

I made a lot of mistakes, but you have MN, so you won't