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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

WWYD - my daughter wants to live with me all the time - exDH wants 50/50

205 replies

Tigerbear · 19/12/2017 10:55

My daughter is 6, and her dad and I separated when she was one. We agreed then - and thought it was the best way - to have shared custody, where she's with me half the week, him half the week.
This has worked relatively well until recently. For the past 2-3 months, she's been extremely upset at the prospect of going back to her dad's, to the point of being distraught. She's said on many occasions that she no longer wants to continue living in two houses and that it's upsetting for her. When asked what she would like to happen, she first says that she wants us all to live together, and when I explain that that's not going to happen, she says she just wants to live with me and that she'd just visit daddy.

Several key things have happened to change the dynamic since exDH and I split: he met someone else, she has a daughter the same age as my DD (they're in the same class at school too), he moved in with her, and they then had a baby who is a year old. Her DD is quite a strong character, and although my DD loves her and they call each other sisters, I know my DD sometimes feels anxious by the other girl.
DD has also expressed jealousy of the new baby.

When asked why she wants to stay with me more, she says because there are 5 people at daddy's house, and only two of us at mine. She is quite sensitive, likes her own space and a certain calmness, and she obviously doesn't get that at her dad's (all three of the children share a room there, in a small flat), and she doesn't get any one to one time with her dad.

ExDH doesn't see that there's an issue - he says she's fine when she's actually at their house, and that it's more the anxiety/the prospect of missing me that's the issue, and that we just need to find a way of managing DD's anxiety and sympathising that it's hard living between two houses.
He brings up petty things like saying of course she prefers being at mine as you give her sweets and chocolate and let her watch more TV, which we don't do at ours (he made a big point of bringing this up during a meeting we had with teachers recently, trying to make himself look like the better parent).

DD was distraught the other day, begging me to ask exDH if she could live at mine. What do I do, when he sees no problem? He's saying she doesn't really understand what she wants at such a young age - his analogy: well, she says she wants to eat loads of biscuits, but we don't let her just go ahead with it, we can't change everything just because she wants to, it's disruptive for everyone.

The thing about exDH is that he's subtly controlling, smug, arrogant, pretty much despised at his work because of this (I found out from a friend who worked with him that a young trainee had left because of him gas lighting her). He has a way of making people feel like they're in the wrong, and I don't know how to fight it.
His solution is that we need to take DD to see a child psychologist to find out what's wrong.
All I see is my little DD totally crushed these days - she's always been such a joyful and happy child, and the light has gone from her eyes, she's fretful, always says she feels ill, doesn't want to do anything.

Sorry for the long post. Any suggestions much appreciated.

OP posts:
donners312 · 19/12/2017 11:01

Well who would want to live between two houses plus it sounds like hell for her there.

It would be better to reach some sort of compromise with your Ex though as i suspect if it went to court they would go along with the status quo as they always seem to use the 'kids don't want go to school/Dr etc' analogy.

But is does sound like she is upset by the situation, perhaps go the the Dr and speak to school etc see what she says in a neutral setting and see what they suggest?

Do you think the thought of paying you maintenance is what is stopping him? Does he love and care for your DD?

Maybe get legal advise?

tigerbear · 19/12/2017 11:05

Donners - thanks for your reply.
Not sure the thought of maintenance would have occurred to him yet. He's quite tight by nature, even though he earns about £120k. I wouldn't even want maintenance from him TBH, as it'd give him one up on me.

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tigerbear · 19/12/2017 11:09

Sorry, didn't answer your question, I don't doubt that he loves her, but there have been times over the past few years/months when if she's told me that if his partner's DD has been mean to her, he has very much sided with his step daughter (not directly to her, but telling me that it's natural for them to fight sometimes, and getting defensive at me saying anything about his stepdaughter).

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Hermonie2016 · 19/12/2017 11:10

Does the school have a counsellor? This would be a good start and also seeing a child psychologist is not a bad idea.

Someone neutral may help your dd and your ex may listen to their feedback.There maybe adjustments he can make to help her and I think its important she feels listened to.
If this went to court a CAFCAS officer would be appointed so you being proactive about supporting dd and her right to see her dad would be viewed positively. I doubt your ex will listen to you so an outside person would help.

ItsYuleyme · 19/12/2017 11:16

Tiger, I'm sorry but I wouldn't let my daughter be so distraught that the light had gone from her eyes.
Just keep her at your house if she doesn't want to go. What can be do?
His place is not suitable anyway, she needs her own room, so see how he tries to get through that one, if he tries to fight it out with you.
Please be there for your little girl, she sounds so sad.

Zampa · 19/12/2017 11:19

At 6 years old your daughter shouldn't be having a say in what the contact arrangements are.

It's the responsibility of you and your ex to ensure she has a good relationship with both parents and extended family. It doesn't matter if you don't like him, he's your DD's father and your feelings should be hidden from her.

Love and support from you, encouraging her to stay over, will produce results.

TheHoneyBadger · 19/12/2017 11:20

How come three children are sharing a room in a small flat if he earns 120k? I don't understand why they'd be living overcrowded if they have money.

L0V3 · 19/12/2017 11:22

I've been your DD many moons ago and I would speak to your ex about the step daughter. Say things need to change. Try and get your DD into some kind of talking therapies. I hated having two homes and my parents would fight over me all the time - in the end it was me who got hurt.
I would only stop contact if you were certain DD was coming to harm (not just physical). If ex cares enough he will put it right.
As for the CSA issue, making him pay his FAIR SHARE is not him getting one up on you. You're entitled to CSA because of your DD. Even if you don't use it you could put it into an account for your DD. I hate it when parents don't pay.

Forflipssake2 · 19/12/2017 11:25

Ask for some family counselling sessions with your DD, exDH and you together

Terrylene · 19/12/2017 11:33

Other people have good advice on dealing with OH etc.

I would say that as a mother of twins it is very difficult if they share the same school class and the same bedroom and do not get on or even if they do sometimes. They need some space as an individual and it seems like she does not get this from her father. I agree with others saying that she needs her voice to be heard and hopefully the school can help with counselling.

Bathsheba1878 · 19/12/2017 11:37

I really feel for you in this situation. My son (from the age of 7 until he was 12) had to endure 5 years of going to his father's house. He hated every minute of it and used to literally beg me not to make him go. Unfortunately we had a contact order in place which basically meant that he had to go regardless of how he felt about it.
I don't know if there is a contact order in place for your daughter but your ex might well apply for one if you stopped making her go to his house. Once a child reaches 12 the Courts will listen to their views and, in my son's case, they accepted the reasons why he didn't want to go and the contact order was rescinded ( he no longer sees his father at all now).
The problem is that because your daughter is so young there will be a suspicion that you have influenced her and that the views she's expressing may not be her own ( I am sure you have not done this). I would suggest that you try to get legal advice if your husband is insistent. If he does go down the route of applying for a Court order to impose regular contact then CAFCASS will be involved and they will look in detail at your case in detail and talk to your daughter on her own about her feelings. Very best of luck, it is heartrending to have to send your child off to somewhere they will be unhappy. I used to try to be really positive about it and talk to my DS about the good aspects of going but I am sure you are already doing all that. The fact that your daughter has to share a room may be a good argument for ending, or at least reducing, overnight stays.

Vernazza · 19/12/2017 11:39

Op I would suggest you, your DD, and your ex sit down and have a conversation with all three of you in the room at the same time and discuss it together. Is that a possibility?

Branleuse · 19/12/2017 12:01

I think you need to listen to your dd here.
I tried to do 50/50 with my exH for a while with ds1 and it also didnt work out. Its all nice to be fair to the parents but its not always what is best for the child, and I think its really important for many children to have a base and a set home and their own space.
Acknowledge how your ex is likely to be a pain here and work round it, but ultimately dont let his wishes take priority over your daughter

juneau · 19/12/2017 12:06

Don't put all this on her - it's not fair. I disagree that the three of you should sit down together, given that your exP is controlling and EA. Family counselling would be a good idea IMO, as would talking to the school about some counselling for your DD, but I think putting her on the spot with both parents there asking her what she wants (and her father dismissing her concerns and railroading her) would send her anxiety through the roof. The current arrangement worked fine, but it sounds like it's not working any more, so you need to re-evaluate what is best for her. A non-judgemental, kind and supportive atmosphere is essential if she is to get her opinions across. Her dad is clearly not listening.

Tigerbear · 27/12/2017 23:35

Thanks so much for all of the kind words and advice, I really appreciate it, and sorry for not coming back to the thread before now. I'm just finding it really hard to articulate my feelings and concerns.
My mum has been staying over Christmas, and has seen how upset DD has been getting.
It's to the point that she asks me at least once an hour if she can live with me all the time, it's the last thing she asks at night, and the first thing she asks when she wakes up. She woke me at 3am this morning to ask too.
She's begging not to go back to her dads tomorrow. I had a very fraught conversation with him tonight, where I did suggest that living in two houses may not be the right way for her anymore, and he categorically said that it's not my decision to make alone, and that we should be showing a united front, and working together to find solutions of managing her upset and anxiety, rather than totally changing the living arrangements.
DD was distraught when I said she had to go there tomorrow, but that daddy would call me if she was still upset later in the day once I'd dropped her off.
We then spent about 45 min on the phone to him, with him on loudspeaker so we could have a three way conversation. She repeated over and over that she's serious, she really doesn't want to continue living in two houses, she only wants to visit him, she only wants to stay with me.
He pretty much said to her that that's not going to happen, she has two houses and that's the way it is.

His argument to me is that if the situation was reversed, and she said she wanted to live with him instead of me, is that I'd be fighting to understand what the root of the problem is, and wouldn't just let her go to live with him. He's saying that at 6, she doesn't really know what she wants.
After the call, she asked me again and again why we'd decided that 50/50 would be best and I told her we thought it was the best plan all those years ago, and she said it wasn't, and that she'll never be happy.

My mum and I have now fallen out as she asked me if I don't care about DD as I'm doing nothing to help her.
But realistically, can I just not take her to his house tomorrow? I'm worried he'll turn nasty (not violent), and call the police on me or something for preventing him from seeing her. No idea what to do now.

OP posts:
IsabellaDMC · 27/12/2017 23:49

Could you offer a small compromise - 3 days with dad and 4 with mum? So you are acknowledging her feelings but also ensuring she maintains a significant relationship with her father.

That said, I'd bloody hate to live in two houses so I'm not quite sure why we (as a country) see it as the best possible option for children who, if anything, need more stability and security that adults.

Longdistance · 27/12/2017 23:52

Is the 50/50 court ordered?

I can’t believe that 5 people live in a 1 bed flat. That’s ridiculous and too much, I’m not surprised your dd is not enjoying it. Sounds awful for her Sad

cestlavielife · 27/12/2017 23:55

Get her referred to family therapy so done e trained and experienced can get to the route of her anxiety.

Read "how to talk so kids ds will listen " (recommended to me by a chikd psychologist)
And "the big bag of worries "

tigerbear · 27/12/2017 23:55

Thanks Isabella - for the short term, i.e. for the rest of the holidays, I said to exDH that it may be best for DD to visit theirs, then come back to me in the evening but he's not into any flexibility at all, he's just saying that arrangements are in place, that DD has to abide by what we originally agreed. She's already been with me for 14 days, and will be with him for the next 8, then it'll go back to normal 50/50 after the holidays,

OP posts:
tigerbear · 27/12/2017 23:57

Cestlavielife - thanks for the book recommendation. We have an appointment booked with a psychologist for the 4th.

Long distance - sorry I should have been clearer - they live in a 3 bed flat, but the two girls and the baby share a room.

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tigerbear · 27/12/2017 23:59

Long distance - the 50/50 was agreed by us when we split up 5 years ago, we never went to court.

OP posts:
cestlavielife · 27/12/2017 23:59

Does she feel responsible for you?
That she is leaving you all alone?
(2 vs 5)

And claim child support .

tigerbear · 28/12/2017 00:02

ExDH is pinpointing the anxiety as having begun in the summer, when due to holiday plans being different to the norm (i.e. What's happened in previous years), DD arrived back from a holiday with ex and new family expecting to come straight back to my house, however I was away then. She couldn't understand why I wasn't there when she arrived back, and this seems to have been when it all began, so EXDH thinks.

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tigerbear · 28/12/2017 00:04

Cestlavie - I don't think so, I think she just prefers being in a house that's just the two of us. However ex is saying she has great fun there and a loving family who miss her when she's not there.

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