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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

WWYD - my daughter wants to live with me all the time - exDH wants 50/50

205 replies

Tigerbear · 19/12/2017 10:55

My daughter is 6, and her dad and I separated when she was one. We agreed then - and thought it was the best way - to have shared custody, where she's with me half the week, him half the week.
This has worked relatively well until recently. For the past 2-3 months, she's been extremely upset at the prospect of going back to her dad's, to the point of being distraught. She's said on many occasions that she no longer wants to continue living in two houses and that it's upsetting for her. When asked what she would like to happen, she first says that she wants us all to live together, and when I explain that that's not going to happen, she says she just wants to live with me and that she'd just visit daddy.

Several key things have happened to change the dynamic since exDH and I split: he met someone else, she has a daughter the same age as my DD (they're in the same class at school too), he moved in with her, and they then had a baby who is a year old. Her DD is quite a strong character, and although my DD loves her and they call each other sisters, I know my DD sometimes feels anxious by the other girl.
DD has also expressed jealousy of the new baby.

When asked why she wants to stay with me more, she says because there are 5 people at daddy's house, and only two of us at mine. She is quite sensitive, likes her own space and a certain calmness, and she obviously doesn't get that at her dad's (all three of the children share a room there, in a small flat), and she doesn't get any one to one time with her dad.

ExDH doesn't see that there's an issue - he says she's fine when she's actually at their house, and that it's more the anxiety/the prospect of missing me that's the issue, and that we just need to find a way of managing DD's anxiety and sympathising that it's hard living between two houses.
He brings up petty things like saying of course she prefers being at mine as you give her sweets and chocolate and let her watch more TV, which we don't do at ours (he made a big point of bringing this up during a meeting we had with teachers recently, trying to make himself look like the better parent).

DD was distraught the other day, begging me to ask exDH if she could live at mine. What do I do, when he sees no problem? He's saying she doesn't really understand what she wants at such a young age - his analogy: well, she says she wants to eat loads of biscuits, but we don't let her just go ahead with it, we can't change everything just because she wants to, it's disruptive for everyone.

The thing about exDH is that he's subtly controlling, smug, arrogant, pretty much despised at his work because of this (I found out from a friend who worked with him that a young trainee had left because of him gas lighting her). He has a way of making people feel like they're in the wrong, and I don't know how to fight it.
His solution is that we need to take DD to see a child psychologist to find out what's wrong.
All I see is my little DD totally crushed these days - she's always been such a joyful and happy child, and the light has gone from her eyes, she's fretful, always says she feels ill, doesn't want to do anything.

Sorry for the long post. Any suggestions much appreciated.

OP posts:
SandyY2K · 11/01/2018 07:15

Before the new baby came along...her step sister did get one on one time...but your DD never gets it eith her own dad ...now if he fails to understand the impact of that...then he has a lot to learn.

Many families all in one house carve out a little individual time for their DC.

Quartz2208 · 11/01/2018 07:29

I do think court might be the best option though so I would also get some legal advice.

Given that you are getting her to seek a child psychologist and spoken to the school I would not worry about been seen as unreasonable either. If she does say it to the professionals as well as it has to be taken seriously.

I think the fact is 50/50 does not work for everyone and she needs a stable base. Every other weekend with one night then two nights I think would work better (and would not be that much of a significant reduction given its 5 out of 14 nights) but does let her have a home base.

At the moment it is him being unreasonable

tigerbear · 11/01/2018 07:29

Regarding the stepsister, she was born via a donor. My ex is the only Dad she has ever had present in her life, and she calls him dad, for the most part.

The main problem here is that ex and his partner don't think there is any problem at their house - they say she is totally happy, and RELIEVED when she's at theirs. They say that if she's anxious and upset all the time at mine, I'M the one who needs to look at how I'm parenting.

OP posts:
LoverOfCake · 11/01/2018 07:33

The problem (if you can call it that) with the OP telling the ex what needs to change in his case and vice versa is that it can seem like a blame game between ex’s. This is why at such a young age it’s important to get more of an independent third party involved so that the DD’s voice can be heard without any suggestion on either side that she is being coached/given ideas.

My ex absolutely didn’t want to hear it from me when DS stopped wanting to go round there. And when he initially talked to DS about it he didn’t want to hear it from him either and chose to believe that I was putting words in his mouth. But as time has gone on he’s had no choice but to accept that DS absolutely does not want to be there, and his partner has essentially showed her colours in terms of the reasons why he doesn’t like it there. Ex still takes her side, and still defends her to the hilt, but that’s IMO partly because if they split she would stop him seeing his other DC.

The reality is that anyone who is close to the child is going to put their own spin on things because they’re close to the child. For the OP hearing that the DD wants to stay with her she is naturally going to believe that it is purely because of how things are at her dad’s. For the ex hearing that his dd doesn’t want to stay at his house any more he is going to believe that something at the mum’s is different so as to attract the DD there more. He may be right as well, and truth is there may be some validity on both sides. But because they are both close to the child and both have their own individual struggles neither of them can be fully objective.

But if things have only really changed this dramatically over the past four months or so then it is important that you do try to establish why that is.

Quartz2208 · 11/01/2018 08:07

Then look at it not from a parenting basis but the fact that not having a settled base is unsettling her (which is what I think it is) and the constant going backwards and forwards means she has nowhere to call home.

Suggest EOW and Tues/Weds nights that is 6/14 and a reduction of 1 night but does give her the notion that she has a permanent home

tigerbear · 11/01/2018 08:25

Quartz - that's exactly the arrangement I'd hope for, and will propose.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 11/01/2018 08:35

I do wonder if the being at school with her stepsister is too much and part of the issue. They are probably expected to be like "twins" but they're not - I wonder if DD doesn't kick up a fuss there like she would if she lived there 24/7 and keeps herself in check until she gets home.

You do also wonder how DD really feels about SS having her Dad full time it being her bedroom full time etc. I should imagine stepmum will naturally side more with SS even just a bit and it's all enough to add to wanting to be with you more.

If DD is listened to by Dad she will have long given up trying to tell him.

I also wonder if they prefer having DD with them as her and SS do occupy themselves and give them a break!

My DN badly bullied my DD at school (same class due to school cock up) again dominant plush personality versus quieter, more compliant one. Took us months to get DD to tell us - think I threatened her with no pudding ever again if she didn't tell us why she wasn't eating her packed lunch at school!!!

MrsBertBibby · 11/01/2018 08:44

Have you done anything about getting legal advice OP?

It comes to something when your child's school is having to put resources into sorting out your child's dysfunctional parenting. It's very nice of them but it isn't what school is meant to be for.

angieloumc · 11/01/2018 09:09

I really would, as op have suggested, seek legal advice and quickly.
I would get the ball rolling yourself to get into court and have a child arrangement order sorted out.

Quartz2208 · 11/01/2018 09:52

Then I would definitely get legal advice, that proposal is one which I think enables joint care and your daughter to feel she has a home base

tigerbear · 11/01/2018 10:31

I have contacted a solicitor who I know is very good and has recently won a very complex and lengthy child custody case.

OP posts:
Mixedupmummy · 11/01/2018 11:12

I'm glad to hear you've contacted a solicitor. Even if you want to avoid going to court it's still a good idea to get advice and an idea of where you stand legally.

knittingdad · 11/01/2018 11:24

When my mum moved out when I was 14 I did half a week at each house for a couple of years and it was not a pleasant experience. I don't think it's fair on your daughter.

You can set up a routine that enables her to spend time with her dad that is less disruptive.

Twalva · 11/01/2018 11:34

I think that 50/50 is a terrible arrangement and I completely understand that your daughter is unsettled. My parents divorced when I was very young and although I saw my non resident parent weekly I was very settled at home in my own space. I would have felt pushed from pillar to post to live 50/50 and I strongly believe that it’s good for parents but rarely the right thing for children

2boysDad · 11/01/2018 11:52

"It comes to something when your child's school is having to put resources into sorting out your child's dysfunctional parenting. It's very nice of them but it isn't what school is meant to be for."

No it's not, and in this case it shows.

I fear this arranged meeting may well backfire on all parties. The head shouldn't be arranging a meeting like this without first speaking to BOTH parents. In my opinion that's a colossal no-no. This line from the OP in particular worries me:

"they will tell ExDH that he needs to listen to DD."

That's likely to come across as "taking the mothers side". I'm not saying that's true - but I am saying that's how its likely to come across to the father. That's not going to help anybody.

A trained mediator would be careful not to appear to take sides - that's what they are TRAINED to do.

tigerbear · 11/01/2018 11:58

Two boys - the head has spoken to ExDH, she had a meeting with him arranged for tomorrow, after she'd spoken to me.

OP posts:
2boysDad · 11/01/2018 12:02

Ah - ok. That sounds more promising. I hope the head can help you both reach a solution that works for your daughter and both households.
Good luck.

tigerbear · 11/01/2018 12:02

Two boys - I think she meant that ExDH should listen to the fact that THEY have seen a massive difference in DD too - meaning that it's not just DD acting different or saying things to me, I.e trying to 'play' me or push the boundaries with me, but that her demeanour and behaviour has changed in their view. As far as ExDH is concerned, she's fine. School are saying she's not, I think that's what they want to get across.

OP posts:
GaraMedouar · 11/01/2018 12:08

Tigerbear - I’m so sorry this is happening. I think 50/50 is not always ideal , depends on the circumstances and in this case it is very obvious your DD wants to live with you. She doesn’t want to stop seeing her Dad.

My ExH was like this - we had a court order and he rigidly stuck to it , no matter whether DCs needed flexibility or not. In the end my eldest had a mini ‘breakdown’ at school and was sobbing to his teacher and had a big chat. My DC were booked to see a school counsellor and the headteacher got involved. Things have got better as they’ve got older and now tell their Dad what they are doing. I also had CAFCASS involvement years ago who were very good.
Hopefully the involvement of your head will help matters, being an independent 3rd party whose only concern is your DD being happy.

DarthNigel · 11/01/2018 12:32

I think it's positive that the school are involved. And that they are on DD's side, neither op's or her Dads.

pudding21 · 11/01/2018 13:54

tigerbear: i saw someone suggested EOW and Tues and Wed night. I tried this with my ex and it was too much back and forth. He know has them every Monday and Tuesday and EOW. So every other week they get a stretch of 4 days together. Or you could suggest every Thursday and Friday and every other weekend. Its a bit of a shit doing it like that as it creeps into every weekend. But doing mid week days then weekends, is more back and forth.

Works ok for us. It works out as 12 days over a month more or less that the boys are with their dad.

SandyY2K · 11/01/2018 15:45

Regarding the stepsister, she was born via a donor.

I see. So your DD is the only moving between houses. That probably makes her feel like the odd one out.

Your Ex and his wife don't sound very nice at all.

FitBitFanClub · 11/01/2018 17:33

Some people only see what they want to see. Your ex sounds like one of them. It suits him to believe that your daughter is fine, so he will continue to peddle that view. Even though she has told him she's not happy shuttling between two homes, he deals with it by telling her (and you) it's non-negotiable and that she just needs to lump it. No wonder she's not confiding in him. He doesn't sound very approachable. She clearly trusts you, and wants to talk to you about it.

Let's hope that this meeting with the school can help sort things out so that she's happier.

MrsBertBibby · 11/01/2018 17:38

Once again, why is it down to the school to sort this out? Head teachers have a shed load of stuff to do without playing at mediation between parents who can't or won't sort their shit out themselves.

RB68 · 11/01/2018 17:47

50/50 is only equitable to parents - it is not whats best for the children at all - no stability, no permanent place, always adrift never at "home home" no wonder we have such high mental health issues