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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

WWYD - my daughter wants to live with me all the time - exDH wants 50/50

205 replies

Tigerbear · 19/12/2017 10:55

My daughter is 6, and her dad and I separated when she was one. We agreed then - and thought it was the best way - to have shared custody, where she's with me half the week, him half the week.
This has worked relatively well until recently. For the past 2-3 months, she's been extremely upset at the prospect of going back to her dad's, to the point of being distraught. She's said on many occasions that she no longer wants to continue living in two houses and that it's upsetting for her. When asked what she would like to happen, she first says that she wants us all to live together, and when I explain that that's not going to happen, she says she just wants to live with me and that she'd just visit daddy.

Several key things have happened to change the dynamic since exDH and I split: he met someone else, she has a daughter the same age as my DD (they're in the same class at school too), he moved in with her, and they then had a baby who is a year old. Her DD is quite a strong character, and although my DD loves her and they call each other sisters, I know my DD sometimes feels anxious by the other girl.
DD has also expressed jealousy of the new baby.

When asked why she wants to stay with me more, she says because there are 5 people at daddy's house, and only two of us at mine. She is quite sensitive, likes her own space and a certain calmness, and she obviously doesn't get that at her dad's (all three of the children share a room there, in a small flat), and she doesn't get any one to one time with her dad.

ExDH doesn't see that there's an issue - he says she's fine when she's actually at their house, and that it's more the anxiety/the prospect of missing me that's the issue, and that we just need to find a way of managing DD's anxiety and sympathising that it's hard living between two houses.
He brings up petty things like saying of course she prefers being at mine as you give her sweets and chocolate and let her watch more TV, which we don't do at ours (he made a big point of bringing this up during a meeting we had with teachers recently, trying to make himself look like the better parent).

DD was distraught the other day, begging me to ask exDH if she could live at mine. What do I do, when he sees no problem? He's saying she doesn't really understand what she wants at such a young age - his analogy: well, she says she wants to eat loads of biscuits, but we don't let her just go ahead with it, we can't change everything just because she wants to, it's disruptive for everyone.

The thing about exDH is that he's subtly controlling, smug, arrogant, pretty much despised at his work because of this (I found out from a friend who worked with him that a young trainee had left because of him gas lighting her). He has a way of making people feel like they're in the wrong, and I don't know how to fight it.
His solution is that we need to take DD to see a child psychologist to find out what's wrong.
All I see is my little DD totally crushed these days - she's always been such a joyful and happy child, and the light has gone from her eyes, she's fretful, always says she feels ill, doesn't want to do anything.

Sorry for the long post. Any suggestions much appreciated.

OP posts:
SouthWestmom · 28/12/2017 14:29

Isn't it maybe that the other two have their mum there and she doesn't? I know the other girl could feel the same about the dad but she's a constant presence and not a 'visitor' I assume.

I would see a solicitor in the new year to revisit this now she's at school.

However - does 50/50 mean no maintenance paid by him? Is that a factor in resenting change?

Branleuse · 28/12/2017 14:30

please stop trying to placate your ex. His opinions and desires are not your problem. The only one you should be fighting for is your daughter.

If your daughter wanted to live with him and not you, there wouldnt be much you could do about it either, but she doesnt, so its irrelevent. You should not be pushing your daughter to go to her fathers when she absolutely doesnt want to. There may be a damn good reason for it

AnnieAnoniMouse · 28/12/2017 14:30

Stop letting HIM control YOU and your DD.

She’s 6. She’s distraught. It’s not court ordered. Tell him it’s NOT happening. She NEEDS YOU to look out for her & not support his controlling behaviour.

Lweji · 28/12/2017 14:51

Normally, I'd say that if she was living only her dad that she'd have to adapt to the new siblings and the family dynamic.
But, in this instance you should consider how he is with her and make sure you act in her best interests.

As it goes, I don't think it's a good idea to just offer the easy way out, but I did support 12 year old DS when he was adamant that he didn't want to contact his dad. Eventually he resumed contact, so I think a time out can work out well.

Having her see a psychologist is a good strategy, IMO. She will have someone neutral to talk to and the psychologist may actually support her living you with full time, or be an independent voice telling your ex how to help his daughter feel better in his home.

For the time being, I don't think I'd want to see my child so distressed, and would insist at least in a time out and not take her to her dad next time. The danger is of him not returning her when she goes there next time. Would he trust you that she is distressed and agree on a plan to give her some time and slowly get back to 50-50?

You should protect yourself from accusations of parental alienation, which is why an independent assessor is a good idea at this point as well.

Believeitornot · 28/12/2017 15:15

we can't go back on previously arranged plans, that he isn't going to visit her at mine, and that we can't tell her that he'll bring her back if she gets upset at his

Yes you can change plans. Things change, life changes, children grow and preferences change. It isn’t about “going back” on plans, it’s about adapting to changes.

He can visit her at yours, he just chooses not to.

Branleuse · 28/12/2017 15:53

yes you CAN change plans if its causing your daughter distress and pissing you off. You absolutely can

Babycham1979 · 28/12/2017 15:53

Lots of posters suggesting you just withhold contact and 'don't let her go to his' seem to be overlooking the fact that you have 50/50 custody. That means you're not the resident parent; you BOTH are. Of course you'd be unreasonable to deprive your daughter of her father, just as he would be in withholding her from you.

If you do something as rash as withholding contact, he will have every right to take you to court and make this very painful indeed. The better outcome for everyone would be to work through this together to support her.

As ever, if the sexes of the parents were reversed, he'd be accused of 'abuse' for withholding contact, and you'd be advised to get 'lawyered-up' for a messy court battle.

Don't to this to your daughter; it will be infinitely worse for her and everyone else involved than the current arrangement. Your relationship broke-down. It's an imperfect situation, and you will never be able to make it ideal. Work with the half-decent arrangement you already have.

WendyWhale · 28/12/2017 16:03

Why does he have such a small flat earning 120k? Three children including a 1 year old shouldn't be sharing a room earning that amount!

cestlavielife · 28/12/2017 16:06

If in London then a 3 bed flat is a large fortune.
And moving costs high. Nothing wrong with 3 dc in a 3 bed property. They could put the visiting dc or the baby in the play room to sleep.

Nearlythere35 · 28/12/2017 16:12

There is no easy answer to your situation. I would suggest a referral to mediation to discuss it with a neutral third party. If that doesn't work I would suggest an application to Court, whilst difficult, maybe the right thing for your daughter in the long run. If she is unhappy and her dad can't /won't make reasonable adjustments that make her happy then her long term interests may be served by an application to court now. Because of her age her wishes and feelings will not carry the same weight as say a 10 year old but if it's distressing her so much that she is becoming withdrawn what option do you have. Her dad will still end up with regular contact but perhaps every other weekend and one night in the week might work better for her. Good luck.

Nearlythere35 · 28/12/2017 16:15

Should have said don't withhold contact in the meantime unless she is refusing to go in which case short of physically forcing her you can't make her but you should be very positive about seeing her dad and encourage her whilst also ensuring she feels listened to - not easy. Confused

Lweji · 28/12/2017 16:30

There is another aspect, and only you, OP, can answer.

Is she really distressed or having tantrums?

Parentingsortof · 28/12/2017 16:57

I think any long term decisions need to be done with the support of the psychologist and keeping the school involved.

I would be wary of stopping her going to her dads in the short term, as there is nothing stopping him not returning her. Threads of here show that little can be done by the police leaving both mothers and children distraught.

If she does not want to go Tomorrow, you can not physically make her; and neither can he without it being a potential safeguarding alert.

Try to stay neutral when she is upset (hard I know) explain that you will miss her but you've got to get on with work or other boring task

I'm in a 50/50 arrangements too and I would be cautious of doing any actions, that my ex might try to do to me as well

tigerbear · 28/12/2017 17:10

Lweji - he realises that she's distressed, but isn't willing to be flexible in the arrangements.

She isn't having tantrums in the normal sense, she's just very very distressed, asking me every 20 min or so if she HAS to go back, why can't I promise her that she doesn't have to go, that she doesn't want her life to be like this, and never did. She says she's never liked two houses but didn't want to tell me in case I was cross.

Today, I've followed the advice of all my family and all the posters saying I just shouldn't send her to his if she's distraught.
But now I'm worried that he will use this against me. The posters who've said I shouldn't just withdraw contact or change the arrangements, I know this, but in the face of being told I'm not protecting DD if I force her, what do I do?
He's already said I'm alienating her from him and her other family, and I know he'll use this against me if it gets to court, and that he'll bring it up in any meetings we have with therapists, psych, school, etc

And amongst all this, I do actually feel sad for him too - he hasn't seen DD over Christmas (last time he saw her was the 23rd for a few hours) and all her presents are at his waiting to be opened.

OP posts:
tigerbear · 28/12/2017 17:15

Parentingsortof - yes, I'm now scared he'll also do the same to me, i.e. Just keep her at his at some point.

To the posters asking why they're in a flat - we're all zone 2 in London. The flat belongs to his new partner and is prob worth about £500-600k. He owns our old place that's prob worth also at least £600k. For them to get a decent 4 bed house in the area it'd be over a million. They could technically move, but it's not really for me to say why they haven't yet.

OP posts:
Lweji · 28/12/2017 17:17

Considering it all, I'd encourage her to go.

She may prefer to stay at yours and resent having to change homes and adapting to that other environment that she doesn't suit as much, but if she doesn't seem distressed there, then I'd insist she goes.
What can you tell her?
That her dad misses her and wants to be with her.
That they're her family too and in the long run she will feel more comfortable and at ease with them.
That the more she stays away, the more difficult she'll find being there.

I'd rather work with ex in trying to make her stay there as pleasant for her as possible. Even if that involves her having her own bedroom, or more personal space, or one to one time with her dad, for example.

Regarding the baby, many children don't like having new babies around, but they have to adapt. I'd pass on that message to her.

I'd try to look at how the 50-50 is working. If the exchange times are the best for her, if the times she stays there are also the best, or if some rearrangements might work best.

tigerbear · 28/12/2017 17:19

Babycham - I don't want to withhold contact, I do want her to see him and her other family, I just want to make the next few days less painful for her. But ex and I have differing ideas of how we do that. He's saying that if I'd taken her over there this morning as planned, she would likely have been upset initially but then would have been fine later.

OP posts:
tigerbear · 28/12/2017 17:21

Lweij - she says she is unhappy there, he says she isn't.

OP posts:
MrsBertBibby · 28/12/2017 17:23

OP, as a solicitor, I'd suggest that unilaterally changing a longstanding voluntary arrangement is problematic, especially given your daughter's very young age.

Of course, it is quite clear why your daughter is expressing unhappiness: the overcrowding, the invasion of school life into home, the baby invasion, That's more than enough. The fact her father acknowledges that 2 homes is difficult but expects her to learn to cope adds to the general impression of a lack of child-centred thinking on his part.

But none of that takes away from the unilateral actions you are taking. I think from what you have posted my advice would be that you proactively get this into court rather than leave it to dad to do.

You may struggle to find a solicitor open before New Year, but you need to take proper advice, and in the mean time, get to mediation.

Lweji · 28/12/2017 17:27

she says she is unhappy there, he says she isn't.

I understand that.

She could be saying it to convince you. Or it could just mean that she is happier with you, but not necessarily unhappy there.

From your OP:

"Her DD is quite a strong character, and although my DD loves her and they call each other sisters, I know my DD sometimes feels anxious by the other girl.
DD has also expressed jealousy of the new baby.
When asked why she wants to stay with me more, she says because there are 5 people at daddy's house, and only two of us at mine. She is quite sensitive, likes her own space and a certain calmness, and she obviously doesn't get that at her dad's (all three of the children share a room there, in a small flat), and she doesn't get any one to one time with her dad."

I'd try to address these issues. It doesn't look like there are reasons for her to be particularly unhappy, apart from what happens in millions of houses where children have to deal with siblings.
She needs to communicate her needs and learn to deal with the new baby and new sister. I'd really try to engage with the father on dealing with this, rather than letting her retreat into your home.
It would be different if you mentioned something that looked like abusive.
This is why a psychologist would be good. They could give her tools to navigate the new family, and an independent voice to engage with her father.

Hellywelly10 · 28/12/2017 17:31

I think you need advice. Your ex sounds controling so perhaps get advice from a woman's charity. Your child's wishes and feelings are still valid even though she's six.

hendricksyousay · 28/12/2017 17:33

Does he live in London ? If not then why are they all squished into a flat if he earns that amount? Why not suggest they move so she can have her own space or at least more space . ? It must be awful living like that , very unsettling going between houses , poor thing.

MrsBertBibby · 28/12/2017 17:34

OP has said, they are all in Zone 2.

tigerbear · 28/12/2017 17:43

Hendrick - It really isn't up to me to suggest they move. His partner has had, and is, undergoing major surgeries so I don't think they could move right now even if they wanted to.

OP posts:
Lweji · 28/12/2017 18:04

His partner has had, and is, undergoing major surgeries

Wait...

Could this be a factor?