Engagement Ring

[KKOKK]

Been with my bf for just over 3 years, but knew him as friends for about 5 years before that when we dated on and off.

He asked me if I wanted to get married in the summer, and I said yes, and considered we had become engaged...he then termed it a pre-engagement, which I found a bit disappointing. Obviously I worried he didn’t actually want to get married etc...

We moved in together 4 months ago, just after the non proposal. Both sets of parents are a bit miffed that we have decided to live together without the “commitment” of a ring. Anytime we are with my family especially they make jokes about rings and weddings. My BF announced we would get married next year. Still no ring.

We have just put down our deposit on a house and the jokes about a ring have increased.

He got a bit angry about it all this week after a family dinner and said he had a plan to go and speak with my dad and ask my mum for my grans ring to propose with but now he doesn’t see why he should just to please my family and now he just wants to do his own thing.

I sort of imagined getting engaged (which I thought we’d already done) would be romantic, but now I feel like he will grudgenly go through the motions just to get people off our backs.

I would be really happy to wear my grans ring, but I now feel like that will just be another thing we get picked on about that he didn’t buy me something of my own.

Sorry that’s so long!! I just feel like I am stuck in the middle of my family who aren’t really massively happy with my choices, and a grumpy BF who feels irritable about having to propose

There is nothing wrong whatsoever with a SAHdad. That's not what people are saying.

I hope everything goes well for you.

@beesandknees
That's awful.

my mother thinks he isn’t good enough and has treated me badly in the past, my father worries he won’t hold down a proper job or make decisions for the family rather than for himself. His mum thinks he’s lucky to have me

I agree with all 3 of them FWIW.

He's incapable of supporting himself financially without you. He'd have to move back home.

He has a good thing going with you. This is the kind of situation I'd want a prenup for...especially after hearing bees story.

How old are you OP? Or rather, how desperate to have kids soon? Because this bloke is not a keeper.

Your parents don't like him for what sounds like good reason. Don't settle for this shit.

They don’t like 20 year old him, they don’t know almost 30 year old him.

I’m 28 and in no rush to have kids, I have career plans that a child wouldn’t fit into right now, but in the next 5/6 years then sure.

Aside from the non proposal debacle what makes him not a keeper in your opinion? Not that I’m saying the debacle hasn’t been less than ideal, but he’s not a bad person in spite of that

Oh come on, they've seen his behaviour over the the past few years - they do know him.

I do think your parents are being a bit judgemental and controlling. You’re both only in your 20s, and 3 years is not a massively long relationship. Why the rush to get married?

Also, it’s perfectly fine for him to work fewer hours and do more with childcare and around the home and you to be the main breadwinner. Your parents are being totally sexist with their ideas of men having to ‘provide’.

One thing though, if you are at all able to buy the flat alone then I would strongly suggest you do this. He can pay the bills and you pay the mortgage, then if you do split he won’t have claims on your property.

Ffs pre-proposed is not a thing! He proposed. You are engaged. But neither of you seem to actually be planning a wedding? Your family need to butt out. Tell them. Then think long and hard about what he is actually contributing. You say 'of course he wants to marry you cos he's bought a house with you.' But actually you and his parents have brought him a house... what commitment has he actually made to you???

I went out with someone for 7 years who still (now in his 40s) hasn't had a proper job. He was a good bloke, clever, good looking. But he just couldn't grow up enough to plan living with me, marrying me, making a future. From Google stalking, I think he's still living with his mum and fucking about doing more and more degrees.

I married a proper grown up. He has a proper job, feels responsible about our family, pulls his weight. It turns out one of our kids has special needs. Despite having been very very career oriented, I have been able to stay at home with our children, which is even more of a blessing given that one of them needs more support. I am so grateful that we have a set up that enables this.

Listen to all these women who married the first bloke, OP.

"He's not a bad person?"...... Is that the best thing you can say about someone you are planning to spend the rest of your life with, op?

Honestly, this has got disaster written all over it. At the very least, you need to take control of this situation. Stop faffing about, worrying about what your family think, worrying about his feelings and just make some sensible decisions.

It’s just always been him.

It’s just always been him.

And there we have it.

OP, don't buy the first house you find on Rightmove, don't get your electric from the top of the Google search, don't marry him just because you haven't tested the man market!

I chucked Mr Nice But Useless because he just couldn't really commit. It was hard for about a month. It was boring for a bit longer. Then I found my single feet. It was tremendous. So so so much fun. Not just fun. Amazing. Boys I knew I'd never see again, who make gorgeous memories! Crying with laughter in the back of cabs. Just so much brilliant fun. Go!

OP, putting your boyfriend aside, if you think about your IDEAL partner, what is he like? Write down 20 things about your absolute ideal husband. Be as expansive or specific as you like.

Then cut it down to 5 dealbreakers. What are they?

I do feel like I’m responsible for a lot of the big stuff. I manage the finances and I’ve been the one sorting out the house and mortgage, I’m a planner and he’s a sort of oh well it’ll all be fine kind of person.

^

This is why he isn't a keeper. You're not his mother. And you'll end up bad cop if you become parents.

Honestly, not arguing about who does the dishes is not a good enough reason to marry someone!

In what ways has he grown up over the past, what? 8 years? How long have you lived together? How would he respond to a crisis (financial, health etc)? Are you on the same page about the big things (lifestyle, money, family, kids etc etc)? Could he step up if something happened that meant you were unable to work? Would he?

These are the things that matter. Dishes and bins out stuff might be the kind of thing that people trot out on a lighthearted ‘what annoys you about your partner’ mumsnet thread, but they are not the things people break up over or the things that keep them together.

Ask yourself what you want. Because so far it sounds like ‘him’ would be your answer, but none of us can see why.

I don’t think it’s possible to explain the relationship properly here, but I do appreciate the help, I am a lot clearer on the ring thing.

I can't see why you're buying a place together - there doesn't seem to be anything in that for you - nothing to gain and quite a lot to lose. I would get some independent financial advice and strongly consider buying a place in your name only. (OP, I've rtft and still think that.)

Think about the logistics. If he’s a SAHP, when does he do his Art? You cannot do both at the same time. At the evenings and weekends? Would you want to do two jobs? One 9-5, another all the rest of the time? It would be knackering. Say he does want to do that, there’s no time for him to do chores. No time for him to do mental load, planning holidays. There’s no time for you to spend time together as a family, go the park, cinema, birthday parties. Really think it through.

Also, has it not occurred to you that you might find it heartbreaking to work full time and leave your babies at 3 months old. Read some threads on here about women doing that and see what the consensus is about how women feel about that.

Also, parenting is really hard. You need self-discipline, compassion, the ability to put others first, seeing things from others points of view, planning, organisation. Your partner does not excel in those things. Imagine him overlooking your babies needs - him not really caring that they eat at the right kind of time, or have the right kind of food, or anticipating how they might feel in a situation (nervous, shy, brave) that is clear to you. You are that kind of person and would be that kind of parent, he isn’t and wouldn’t be. It would break your heart to leave your children with him everyday. Because you would know it would damage them.

Also, if he’s the stay at home parent, he would get custody, keep the house and you would have to pay him maintenance if you divorced, same as if it were the other way round.

Oh and I found the other thread that reminds me of yours. Worth a read I'd say.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3002952-Boyfriend-is-financially-irresponsible-Should-i-leave-him

How can a ring you already posess then be given to you as an engagement ring ? I understand if it was a ring originating from his family. How did he position the idea to you ?

Sorry I agree with the likely scenario beesknees describes but you’ll carry on regardless I’m sure. At least you have set up protection of your assets though

I think I’m as sure about my relationship as most people are when they get married. Him being an artist doesn’t mean he isn’t compassionate and will damage our children, that’s a ridiculous thing to say. I don’t know how anyone gets married if him fluffing the proposal is grounds enough to damn him.

As said before if it didn’t work out there is very little prospect of him walking away with the house, just because he looked after the kids, assuming that’s even what happened, I already said we could make alternative arrangements for the children. Plenty of women I know have taken short maternity leaves, and whilst not ideal I’m sure, it is what has had to happen. If I wanted to have a longer maternity he would presumably work during the time.

I think people are seeing something that isn’t there, or are convinced all relationships are doomed to failure.

So he was previously crap with saving, he now isn’t, he did a crap job at proposing, I’m sure he’s not the only one who ever has.

Ok, maybe the best thing to say then is don't rush into anything.

Give yourself plenty of time to make these massive decisions about getting married and buying a house (probably the biggest decisions you will ever make). And be very, very clear that if you are married and then split he will be entitled to 50% of all assets including the house - the fact that it's in your name only, or that you have put in a bigger deposit or made all the mortgage repayments won't make any difference at all.

cambione it does make a difference though, 50% :50 is a starting point, very rarely is it the finishing point, but yea, I take the point, I will not rush things

Aside from the non proposal debacle what makes him not a keeper in your opinion?

For me it would be a combination of the way he's gotten stroppy with/about your family and the whole non proposal and ring.

I would be fearful of his financial situation and that things would fall on me.

I just wouldn't feel financially secure... but that's just me and I wouldn't have a serious relationship with an up and coming non successful artist/painter/musician or actor... much less marry one.

I had this theory and belief pre marriage, that I wouldn't marry anybody that would bring my standard of living down. I didn't want to be worse off financially than when I was single living on my own.