Engagement Ring

[KKOKK]

Been with my bf for just over 3 years, but knew him as friends for about 5 years before that when we dated on and off.

He asked me if I wanted to get married in the summer, and I said yes, and considered we had become engaged...he then termed it a pre-engagement, which I found a bit disappointing. Obviously I worried he didn’t actually want to get married etc...

We moved in together 4 months ago, just after the non proposal. Both sets of parents are a bit miffed that we have decided to live together without the “commitment” of a ring. Anytime we are with my family especially they make jokes about rings and weddings. My BF announced we would get married next year. Still no ring.

We have just put down our deposit on a house and the jokes about a ring have increased.

He got a bit angry about it all this week after a family dinner and said he had a plan to go and speak with my dad and ask my mum for my grans ring to propose with but now he doesn’t see why he should just to please my family and now he just wants to do his own thing.

I sort of imagined getting engaged (which I thought we’d already done) would be romantic, but now I feel like he will grudgenly go through the motions just to get people off our backs.

I would be really happy to wear my grans ring, but I now feel like that will just be another thing we get picked on about that he didn’t buy me something of my own.

Sorry that’s so long!! I just feel like I am stuck in the middle of my family who aren’t really massively happy with my choices, and a grumpy BF who feels irritable about having to propose

Awe op I really feel for you coming from a similar situation. I've been with do almost 6 years and we have known each other since we were little.

He has still not proposed despite mentioning it about 2.5yrs in and us being through some life changing events together.

No1 understands it not least me. I get what everyone is saying - he probably doesn't want to propose. He certainly doesn't want to split up though so feels like stuck in limbo.

I'm early 30s and lots of people ask me about it. I never know what to say. He mentioned it recently and I asked for a deadline. He gave me one which is not too far away.

I do know however that there is nothing going on money wise so at the moment it is looking highly unlikely. I would have a £50 ring but he insists it should be much more. The dangling the carrot and MN threads like this always come to mind when he does it.

I have a little while to wait to see how it pans out!

You keep saying why can't your parents are that he's changed?

Errr how exactly has he changed? He's not getting engaged to you, he's not able to pay the mortgage, he would give up his job in heartbeat, he hasn't made a living with his art yet at the age of 28 or so and when he had a year off he still didn't make a living. He doesn't seem to have a Plan B and you're the only one actually Adulting here.

So how has he changed? Just cos he got a low paying 9-5 job he has no interest in? With all due respect he could get that in McDonald's (and would at least have a shot at Management then).

gingerbread What do you think it is that holds him back?

And as for your idea he will do his Art at the weekends - so what, you work all week and have to do 90% of everything at the weekend whilst he holes himself away painting or whatever?

Elspeth just imagine what he was like 5 years ago when I see this as progress!!

No one is saying that your BF is a bad person, or that he's deliberately planning to stitch you up, or that following your dreams is a bad thing. The trouble is that many of the posters on here have been twentysomething, in love and optimistic. Now we're 10,20+ years down the line and are aware of stuff that wouldn't cross our younger selves' minds. That's why many of us are saying exactly the same sorts of things.

There's so much scope here for future bitterness on both sides. You're treating marriage like a romantic declaration of love and commitment. Ok, so it can be, but if that's not backed up by actual real commitment on all fronts it's just a hollow gesture.

To get to your silver wedding anniversary you need to be a team with common goals, shared ideals etc. You're too scared of seeming like bridezilla to call him out on his crappy pseudo proposal. Not a good start.

Let's say you do get married and all goes well for several years. Life has any number of traps up it's sleeve. You could be made redundant, infertility, illness, or having a disabled child. Any one of these can set a couple at odds, and that's before we get to his midlife crisis or you realising that you can't afford to be a SAHM to your new twins. If you can't raise the subject of whether you're engaged or not you're at a disadvantage early in the game. If you're going to MARRY someone you need to work out what is realistically going to happen with money, DCs, work etc. and how any of this effects you if you divorce.

And everything beesknees said.

I don't know kkok either he actually doesn't want to or he doesn't feel ready yet. He does bring it up though.

We have agreed to get married in 2019 but no plans made yet as it feels wrong making plans without a proposal.

If I asked him I'm 99% sure he would say money for a ring.

Yes, your grandma's ring would be a massive step back. My DH was 21 and I was 22 when he proposed, we were 2 weeks off graduation so still students and he managed to buy me a ring from his part time job. If he wants to be all traditional about it then recycling from your parents is not ideal.

DownTown talks a lot of sense.

The thing is, you want him to prove to you and your parents that he’s not a feckless man-child, which is pretty hard for him to do given that he sounds like a feckless man-child.

Also, and I speak from experience here, if you are having this sort of carry on before you get married and have kids it will only get worse afterwards.

My interest in the house is very well protected ... it is unlikely that he will walk away with more than he has put in

I wonder if you can be absolutely confident about this, given that the final decision could well be a court's? If you married and then split, one of the first things they'd prioritise is a suitable home for you both, especially if children were involved

Given that you'd probably be making most of the money while he continued earning little or nothing through his "art", who do you think would be expected to pay for him?

I suspect this is something he's already answered to his own satisfaction; indeed it wouldn't surprise me to learn that, despite his appearance of hopelessness around practicalities, he's taken advice on the issue

Yes, in this case you'd probably be better not marrying OP. If you marry and have dc and he is sahp, you could end up in a mess if it fell apart.

OP, I'm a man (a married one who had an engagement before getting married!). I'm not sure I have a different perspective from lots of the other posters, but I'll chuck my two'pennorth in and hope it might be helpful in some way.

One of the earlier posters put their finger on it exactly: if a man really wants to be married to you, he will get married to you. I really don't buy this whole charade of feeling under pressure from your family and them somehow having spoiled things by going on about it stopping him. He's a bloody adult after all and presumably knows his own mind.

I could perhaps understand it more if you were set on a very expensive engagement ring that he needed to save up for, but you've said that isn't the case at all here so he doesn't have that excuse.

You sound really passive. This is the one part of your relationship where he needs to be the driven and determined one (rather than you) and for whatever reason he just doesn't have it in him. And I'm being generous to him, here. We're not talking really driven and determined - just a bit of basic thought and organisation.

If he had a chance of getting a big art commission would he be as passive about it or would he be going all guns to try and secure it? If it's the latter you probably have your answer there on how much he really wants to be married to you.

I am entirely confident than in the absence of a massive change to the laws here I am very well protected, not because I think things will go wrong, but because I won’t be left with nothing at the end of it if they do.

I do hear what you are saying though, I’m not being deliberately obtuse. I recognise that we need to talk about things more. I just don’t want him to feel like I don’t have faith in him.

Again, I do think it’s quite common for people to be stay at home parents, so equally you could say he will be placing himself in a difficult position if he takes on this role whilst I build a career.

The thing is though, he’s not going to get a big art commission is he? I’m not saying such things don’t happen, but he dedicated a year and an inheritance to pursuing his art and it went nowhere, so you know...

You are either really naive or just a total romantic OP but I do think you need a reality check and not just about a ring.

I’m sure that legally you have made all the provisions you can. But you know what bothers me about my divorce? It wasn’t the money or the property or what have you, it was the time I wasted hoping somebody would change. A decade of my life. My entire twenties.

I just hope you don’t make the same mistake.

It's just really important that you go into this with eyes wide open to who he actually is.

If you're happy at the thought of spending a lifetime together where you're going to do most of the planning and management, very likely always be the main earner and that you probably won't be able to have a long maternity leave, then that's great.

What's he like around the home? Does he live with his parents currently? Does he tidy up after himself, cook, do tasks without being asked, get on with the things that need doing, pay bills/rent on time?

KKOKK as I probably should have asked before, are you in the UK? Because if not, please ignore my comment about the courts' jurisdiction over assets; I'm well aware what the possibilities are in the UK, but not elsewhere

On a more general note I'm not sure why you're worried about him feeling you "don't have faith in him" ... in your heart of hearts do you really feel he's giving you reason to have any at all?

This thread has reminded me of past exes. I was engaged to three of them. Bought my wedding dress with the second one. Never set a date. 100% sure they proposed, actually don't remember the first one proposing AND I bought the ring, to keep me sweet. Then next boyfriend. Proposed. Set date ver6 quickly. Nine months later married. If they want to marry you they will find a aa6 to ask you, buy a ring, set the date.

Be careful. Your posts are sounding more like you're trying to convince us, yourself, he's a good egg and it will be grand.

I just googled one my exes and OMG there is actually a photo of him online. He is fifteen years older than me. I was 19. Somehow 19 and 35 seemed okay but 45 and 60 doesn't.

Jesus. So many red flags here I'm going blind.

So you use a ring that you already own, you'll be financing a house with your savings and your earnings, he'll be a SAHP so that he can stop work while you support him ad infinitum while he "works on his art" & ultimately if you separate he will get half your savings & MORE THAN 50% of the house as he is the SAHP.

And all without ever spending a penny.

You just aren't listening are you? This story has been written a thousand times on here & it never ends well. Do yourself a favour and spend some serious time back-reading similar threads. Sponging cocklodgers are rife in these parts.

I recognise that we need to talk about things more. I just don’t want him to feel like I don’t have faith in him.

I think I am pretty much decided that I am going to tell him to forget about the engagement and the ring and the wedding for now, because for whatever reason it is causing problems.

That sounds awfully like you are going to pretend his mistake had no impact on you and you are also going to fix his mistake because he won't.

Are you going to tell him the truth? Tell him that it has left a bitter taste in your mouth that he proposed, you accepted and then he tried to squirm out of it? Worse that he has left you in the awkward position of telling your parents. Are you going to tell him that this is why you have decided you do not want to be engaged to be married to him?

Let me guess. Crystal ball. He's sensitive. He would cry. He would insist that you should get married now in a big strop. He would cry about how could you think this way about him. It would be all me me me me.

I could be wrong. Maybe he would act like an adult instead.

What normally happens when you have to tell him you aren't happy with his actions? It happens with every couple. You've been together for years so there must have been times when he was out for order, you told him, he explained, apologised and changed behaviour.

How do you handle big disagreements?

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Ask your family what they truly think.
He sounds like a free loader and you sound like a mug.

whatsavings I’ve already said my “assets” are well protected, and if we made a choice for him to be a sahp I wouldn’t see that as spongin anymore than if I was a sahp and he worked. My education and career choices mean I will be the higher earner unless he gets a lucky break.

We live together, he hasn’t lived at home since he was 17, like me. He has always paid his rent on time, he cooks when I work late, cleans, irons, sorts the utilities.

We don’t generally have massive disagreements, but traditionally I just sort of go with the flow and am not great at bringing stuff up that has annoyed or upset me, I’m working on that though, and he encourages me to be more honest about my feelings.

We have spoken about the engagement that never was, and he was a bit bewildered as as far as he was concerned it was a telegraph of his intentions and he had plans, so we agreed he should have made that clearer.

We get on pretty well to be honest. We don’t argue about who does dishes or who should take the bins out etc

fish my mother thinks he isn’t good enough and has treated me badly in the past, my father worries he won’t hold down a proper job or make decisions for the family rather than for himself. His mum thinks he’s lucky to have me and his dad has no real opinion on anything.