Help me answer a text from my ex

[southernharp]

My ex h left about 18 months ago. It then transpired that he had an OW. Same old, same old script. She was a casual friend of mine and his work colleague. I detest them both for all the deceit and for their casual treatment of me after a 25 year relationship. She doesn’tt even have the good grace to look even remotely sheepish if I see her and looks at me with utter distain.

He wants to take the kids away for 10 days in January on a multi day river kayaking trip. My kids are 11 year old twins. This will involve a significant journey there and back, requiring en route stays in hotels, motels, whatever. She will be going too. It makes me feel physically sick to think of her sharing a room with my kids, eating dinner with them every evening, having breakfast with them every morning, sharing a kayak with one of them, basically acting like she is their Mum. It feels like she came to my home as a friend, looked at my life and thought “that’s what I want”.

I know that I can’t outright refuse the trip and. I have to let them go. I have been stalling and largely ignoring his hectoring texts but I will need to give an answer at some point. I am so reluctant to say that’s fine, as I am not at all fine with it. I don’t want him to be any under any illusion that I am cool with this and that I condone his relationship with this woman. Can anyone help me word a text in reply?

I can't see anywhere that OP is letting her children know how she feels? It would seem to me that it's the OW bitching under the kid's window about their own MUM which might cause problems!

I don't know about your school holidays but is there a chance he could choose a ten day period that doesn't allow you to have a significant period of hols with the kids? That's the only bit that stands out to me that you might want to consider.

I feel for you OP. I think you're coming across as extremely measured tbh.

Don’t ask what he need you to do.
I’d say “ok, sort it”.

I don’t think that Heidi’s post is the best on the thread and it’s my thread so I decide

Heidi's answer is the best because it's the one most likely to make him wonder if he did the right thing in leaving you.

Crikey Op you have some serious anger issues! My sympathy is quickly evaporating for you.

I think you need to get some counselling to help you get over this. This level of poison in you is going to eat you up. Put yourself first, don’t let him turn you into this person.

What if your ex put arbitrary conditions of your outings and holidays with the kids? Would you be receptive to that? I doubt it.

You are coming across as rather fixated on your pain over the cheating and subsequent break up...and who are we to tell you how to feel? I just don't think this grudge is going to do you any good in the long run. You can't control the time your kids spend with their father by demanding they do things according to your conditions. No court in the land would agree with you. He is their dad and he is capable of looking after them. You need to let him do that.

conditions on your outings

OP – I get that you’re desperately hurt and angry that your family unit has been torn apart and that the childhood/adolescence that you hoped to give your children is no longer a certainty and I am genuinely sad for you and your children. My life too was shattered when I was a child and my dad left our family unit for another woman but quite honestly, my mother's reaction to her hurt had a much deeper and lasting impact.

To answer your specific questions:
they have no idea that I am struggling with this dilemma so how am I possibly fucking them up?
There are two things that make me think you are dragging them into something they don’t need to be a part of:
Firstly, you know that ‘the kids are likely to enjoy’ this trip and you ‘have suggested that he takes them alone but he is absolutely opposed to this I would be more than happy for them to go alone’.
So, these two kids know about the trip. They want to go. They know that you and their dad aren’t in agreement about it. So I’m afraid that, despite what you think, they know you are struggling with this dilemma.
Secondly, you are 'not willing to engage with his packing list either. I’m not going to flipping help him in this' and ‘Nor will I engage in anything about clothes and packing. If he wants something he can ask and he can do the thinking about what he needs’.
So, these two kids are going to have to do all their packing for a 10 day trip (outdoors where they are likely to need more than every day clothing and multiple dry layers). That’s hardly fair on the children.

This sort of behaviour brings the kids right into the middle of your dispute with their dad and that fucks kids up.

Why the bloody hell should I send him a nice friendly message?
Because he is the father of your children and you owe it to them to have some form of civil relationship with him – there will be countless (usually happy) future events that the children will want both their parents (and often step parents) to be part of. They won’t want the acrimony between their parents souring these events.

I'm only replying because I know have way too much experience of the the anxiety that this type of parental dispute causes and I hope, for your children, that you are able to shield them from your anger and give them the opportunity to engage in the relaxed, comfortable relationships they deserve to have with both of their parents.

I’m pretty sure the kids aren’t idiots though. At 11 they will have the smarts to know that their mum is unlikely to be ecstatic that their dad has left their her and is now taking them on holiday with his new girlfriend. They don’t live in a cave, they will have some sort of social awareness. If the op acts like Mary poppins about it all they will see straight through it. She hasn’t put them in the middle of all this. Their Dad has... I just hate all this ‘you are going to wreck their lives if you don’t have birds tweeting around your shoulders and rainbows coming from your eyes as you merrily wave them off’ nonsense. Kids that age aren’t stupid. Maybe we shouldn’t treat them as such?

southernharp you really should listen to some of the comments from people who have been the DC in this situation.
I have huge sympathy for the horrible situation you are in, but being caught in the middle of two fighting parents is its own peculiar type of utter misery.

Obviously it does not please me that you are either unwilling or unable to enjoy time on your own with the kids, but you must live with that choice

I know you hurt, my dad cheated on my mum and left us all for her. never took us anywhere though.

My OH has a DC and his Exwife sends crappy little messages like this ALL THE TIME, tries to get her DD to send photos of me and my DC so she can see what i look like etc, totally unacceptable. I've had all manner of crap from this woman, watched her terrorise and bully her DC to the point of threats of self harm. Why? because we took her DC out to somewhere that was a good day out.

I digress.

As recent as it is, your messages won't make a jot of difference.

FWIW my ex was divorced years before I met him, the ex divorced him, but she is constantly digging at us all, telling what we watch on TV, where we should go on holiday, days out etc.

I would NEVER allow us as a couple to share a hotel room with his DC and mine.

Bottom line is that the kids feel disloyal about going on the holiday with their dad, they probably want to go, but don't at the same time.

Perhaps its too soon for them? perhaps they need your blessing to go? perhaps you need to tell them that yes you will miss them, you will feel weird etc, but it's the first time for you all to do this, so it's understandable. tell them it's a holiday for them and if they want to go they should go, that you will be excited about what they tell you when they are back.

As for contact while you are away, if it's not possible, it's not possible. Like the old days...

As for safety, their dad is in charge. they are with him. they will miss you too. it will be weird for them.

Speak to your kids to see what they would be happy with - perhaps this big adventure is a little too much too soon?

I have asked some questions about the trip and have checked some detail myself. There are many things of which he seems blissfully ignorant. I asked him how I would contact the kids and he said cellphone. There is no coverage for the whole of the river. I asked him if he was taking a spot tracker. He said no. Well he has to take some kind of tracker or PLB or else it is plain not happening. I asked what experience on water his lady friend has - he gave me some waffle about sea kayaking. No, she will have one of my children with her. I want to know exactly.

Op, I am totally with you on this. If your ex is anything like my husband then he doesn’t think of dangers or sometimes seem to use any common sense at all really. I have to double check such a lot if is a nightmare. I can’t imagine how it would be for you in this situation.

Of course it has to be a safe trip, or no trip at all. Is there any coastguard equivalent on that stretch of water? Could you seek their advice over it if so. I’m sure they’re not enthralled about the idea of dickheads risking their children’s life and limb like that.

Your responses to a few posters are unnecessarily cutting OP. Yes, you are in a really awful situation, but there is no need to be quite so unpleasant.You did after all post for comments, and naturally you can expect to get a whole range. I can only hope that this bitterness does not show in your real life, because if it does, you are in real danger of creating a very unpleasant environment for your children. Good luck with everything.

I can only hope that this bitterness does not show in your real life

The whole point if this thread was to compile a suitable response showing the OP is bitter.

I feel for you OP. I really, genuinely and honestly do. The hurt and betrayal must be heart-bustingly awful. It's so understandable that you are angry. Your family's been torn apart, the woman your H had the affair with is now being lined up to play happy families with your precious kids, and not only are you powerless to stop it - you're expected to paste a smile on your face and let it happen. It's shit and it's unfair.

But -

You have to try and detach. He's their father and - deep breath - the fact that he's now off shagging the OW out in the open, doesn't change that fact. The kids have a right to a relationship with him - and that includes going away on holiday together.

I completely get your reticence in wanting to let them go - and understandable bitterness about the OW aside - it must be really worrying to think about having to let them go for such a long period of time. But you need to try as hard as you can to take a step back and think rationally about this; if you don't agree then there is nothing to stop him from taking you to court over it - and he's highly likely to win. The court will take the attitude that he's their father and therefore perfectly responsible and capable of taking them away - wherever that may be - without him having to secure chapter and verse agreement on what/where/why/who from you first.

I can understand the worry about the activity they are doing and the lack of phone coverage. Instead of unilaterally saying 'no', what about trying to compromise and asking him if they will consider something a bit closer to home? Perhaps stressing the common sense approach that 10 days is a long time and the kids have not been away from you or home for that long. So perhaps a holiday closer to home and for 7 rather than 10 days would be a better start - and as they get used to spending time with their Dad without you there, then he can work up to 'bigger' holidays?

I think that you stand a far better chance of getting a reasonable compromise, if that's the approach you take. Whereas going in with a firm 'no' from the outset is likely to come across as antagonistic - and if you combine this with letting your feelings show, then it plays straight into his hands that you're being the "bitter Ex" and sets up an easy court case for him.

Ultimately it's the kids who will sit in the middle of this. And God knows I don't envy anyone who has to paste that smile on and co-parent with their lying cheating twat of an Ex - especially if they shack up with their affair partner. But gritting your teeth and doing so is the best possible thing for your kids.

Best of luck, whatever you decide.

Next time he texts take it to the bare minimum reply with a one word answer either Ok or the less ambiguous Yes and add nothing else nothing to read into you haven’t played his games nor can you be drawn into wifework

I have not said no.. I have said they may go, but let me know safety plans in advance and make arrangements that ensure they are back at least 2 days before school starts. My point about the cellphone is that he should have known this stuff. I want to see a plan for he kids contacting me. In the old days you might have asked for a couple of calls from a phone box and I want him to commit to using his phone as a hotspot a couple of times to allow the kids to FaceTime me. I have also asked for confirmation that I get the same or similar time in the hols. I am not going to expect my kids to pack for themselves. I will help them but not him. He can take the mental load of his own trip. It will gall me though that I bought the kids some nice down sleeping bags- before they had kiddy sleeping bags and when I suggested we replace them, one each, he refused. I bet he will now want the new and expensive bags that I bought. I know they are the kids bags and at least they will be warm and comfortable.

He won’t go to court. He is too tight to pay a lawyer and anyway he will look like a knob because he has refused point blank to engage with any mediation and I have a letter from the mediation service to prove it. The mediation lady said to me that he was the most awkward and obstructive person she had ever had to deal with.

As for anger issooos, yep I am angry, I am furious with him, this man who has made a mockery out of 25 years. Being angry is something you are or you are not. I don’t see how I get to choose. Had plenty of counselling. She is a great lady but I cant have more time off work to attend nor afford more.

I'm not suggesting that you 'choose' to be angry. The anger at the moment is just...there. And you've every right to feel it. What I am suggesting is that you need to try and channel it, and through channelling it into something else, it will allow you to try and detach and take a step back from the situation. Much easier said than done though, and it will take time.

I've seen many threads on here where court action has ended up on the table even when the OP didn't think it was a possibility. If your Ex has controlling tendencies then he may decide that the financial cost is worth it if it means that he gets to keep yanking your chain. The detachment, as and when you feel able to, will help with that.

Thanks Lazy. I am drawing a line here. Some helpful advice, some stuff to think about and an awesome response from JW that I would love to use. Of course the thread may continue without me, but I am gone. Thanks to all who empathised and offered advice.

Best of luck OP.