Help me answer a text from my ex

[southernharp]

My ex h left about 18 months ago. It then transpired that he had an OW. Same old, same old script. She was a casual friend of mine and his work colleague. I detest them both for all the deceit and for their casual treatment of me after a 25 year relationship. She doesn’tt even have the good grace to look even remotely sheepish if I see her and looks at me with utter distain.

He wants to take the kids away for 10 days in January on a multi day river kayaking trip. My kids are 11 year old twins. This will involve a significant journey there and back, requiring en route stays in hotels, motels, whatever. She will be going too. It makes me feel physically sick to think of her sharing a room with my kids, eating dinner with them every evening, having breakfast with them every morning, sharing a kayak with one of them, basically acting like she is their Mum. It feels like she came to my home as a friend, looked at my life and thought “that’s what I want”.

I know that I can’t outright refuse the trip and. I have to let them go. I have been stalling and largely ignoring his hectoring texts but I will need to give an answer at some point. I am so reluctant to say that’s fine, as I am not at all fine with it. I don’t want him to be any under any illusion that I am cool with this and that I condone his relationship with this woman. Can anyone help me word a text in reply?

It's a good reply but personally (after years of these type of communications with my ex) I wouldn't make the comment about spending him time alone with the children. I know he should and I understand why you are saying it but you are just confirming to him that he can wind you up no end by involving her in things. It goes without saying and he will enjoy that he is annoying you.

OP, honestly, I would remove that whole sentence beginning "obviously..." - it just sounds bitter. The rest is good - business like and to the point.

Another one here saying that a ”roughing it” adventure hol with 11yo twins when you’re an OW is not the idyll you think it is. It’s not like it’s a no expense spared full catered Caribbean holiday on the beach where you don’t have to see them if you don’t want to.
This is going to be a situation where she has to put their needs first 24 hours a day and she will not like it.

Yes you imagine a holiday with your children will be lovely but that’s besuse they’re your children!

Let them go and watch exH’s and OW’s relationship get strained!

do not say MY kids. It sets the whole tone off wrong. I'd lose the first sentence altogether. It's not icy, it's needy- don't show him you care. rest of the text is perfect.

TBH, I suspect the only thing that is going to truly get up his nose is when you stop hurting and caring so much about what he and the OW have done, and move on and find a new partner- I suspect that that will get to him more than any icy text ever will.

What about

Permission granted because I believe our kids will enjoy spending some of their holidays with their father. Then the rest about dates and school and my holiday with them.

I would add something about the packing. As other pp have said, OW is going to get a good dose of reality and she will have a load to do sorting out their clothes etc. I would hate them to spend the whole holiday blaming you for them not being able to do certain activities etc. Give them notice then they can't accuse you of being unfair, bitter etc. I also agree "fake it, till you make it". , I have been through something similar and it is really hard.

I also agree with the pp who say that this 'dream holiday' has every opportunity to be less than idyllic. The camping scene from The Parent Trap springs to mind!

Avoid playing games. It's always so transparent. And honestly, the dog about not wanting to spend time alone with the kids reflects badly on you, no matter how much you want to say it.

But it's all horrible for you and I would also find all this very very difficult. Please do make some nice plans for the time. Something wild you can't do with kids.

Permission granted. Obviously it does not please me that you are either unwilling or unable to enjoy time on your own with the kids, but you must live with that choice. Please check when school begins after the summer and ensure the kids are back in good time. Provide me with your preferred dates as soon as possible in order that I might make my own plans whilst you are away. I assume that I will have a similar amount of time to make my own plans with the kids earlier in January.

Does he actually need your permission? That might come back and bite you on the bum.
Remove the sentence starting "Obviously". He knows all that.
Why not look up school start date and say "Kids start school 5th Sept, I suggest they are back by the 3rd at the latest".

You don't need to tell him why you need to know his dates, just that you want them. Do you have flexibility at this stage as to when he books the time or do you already have commitments? He needs to know any dates the kids are NOT available. Or maybe say "I wish to take the kids away the first two weeks of the holiday, I hope that fits in with your dates".

Keep it matter of fact. No need to tell him A THING about your own intentions, only the kids.

e.g. I tell ex I would like to have my contact time with DS during a time that suits me, but I don't tell him it's so I can spend time with my family. He'd take pleasure in fucking it up.

That sounds a good text but don't expect it to happen as he will probably want to be creating a family unit with his new partner.
Feel for you as went through this with my children years,ago having to put them on planes to spend holidays with ex and his new wife.

Furryfury20 - totally agree with this

I'd be tempted to reply with:

Sigh. You know I hate both of you, and the very thought of my sweet children spending that much time away with your good for nothing cheating arse and your homewrecking bitch makes my skin crawl, but it's not as if I can say no. Anyway the kids might actually have fun and I only care about their happiness and safety. So what do you need from me?

Or you could go the terse route:

Whatever. What do you need me to do about it?

JW, I like it. Certainly honest without all the transparent digs. No need for digs when you can just be straight.

Kids are probably more damaged from divorce by being forced to accept step parents presence (especially step parents involved in parents breakup) than their mum being understandably upset.

Op you are not a robot, you can't pretend to like her or be ok, your kids are not stupid they will see right through it. Best to be honest with them. It's probably not a healthy lesson anyway to pretend to be ok, it just teaches them that dads are allowed to just piss off with an ow with no emotional consequences.

Remember if the kids are upset/conflicted/guilty it's because of your husbands (and the ow) selfishness by putting them in this position.

Sorry you are going through this

Jaffacake2, what shouldn’t I expect to happen?

I don’t want to sort out school start dates for him as that is wifework and he needs to be thinkingabout this stuff himself rather than me spoon feeding him. Nor will I engage in anything about clothes and packing. If he wants something he can ask and he can do the thinking about what he needs. I took the kids to the uk at Easter and I didn’t ask him for a thing. Why would I?

JW - both of those replies are very good. I think

"Whatever. What do you need me to do about it?"

This sums it up and then when he comes back with a list, just say no, I don't have time - your holiday you need to sort these things out.

I wouldn’t say please check when the school holidays finish. I would say something like make sure you check or do check you fucking Bastard.

I love the first response from JW. it seems to contravene all other advice though around not letting him see that I give a toss!

I agree totally OP about the dates and the packing but if he sends you a list of clothes he wants, I wouldn't ignore it I would text back and tell him you won't be doing it. Otherwise he will assume you are getting it ready, the twins won't be prepared and they will blame you. If you tell his from the start that that is his responsibility he will have no excuses and if they twins are not prepared it is done to him.

Sorry so many mistakes in my last post - I meant this.

I agree totally OP about the dates and the packing but if he sends you a list of clothes he wants, I wouldn't ignore it I would text back and tell him you won't be doing it. Otherwise he will assume you are getting it ready, the twins won't be prepared and ex dh and ow will blame you. If you tell him from the start that it is his responsibility he will have no excuses and if the twins are not prepared, it is down to him.

I actually really like both of JWrecks replies!

If you want to be bitchy - just go ahead and be bitchy- just don't be passive aggressive or bitter

'Let me know the date you will fetch them and the date they will return.'

Says that you've agreed without saying anything positive, negative or emotional in any way.

Sorry, bitchy isn't the right word. But you know what I mean.

It's straight and to the point, without sounding bitter or downtrodden.

'Let me know the date you will fetch them and the date they will return.’

Or

Let me know when you’re picking them up. School starts again on [date]

You know, even though you're determined not to do any of the wifework (which I heartily agree with), you're still doing the "mental load" thing of reminding him that he needs to look up school dates etc. In other words, you're still thinking for him. You don't need to do that any more either. Your kids should know their dates - they can tell him they need to be back by X. Or, if he sets the dates into school term, then they can say "but we can't do that because you set the dates into school term". Let him start to learn to think for himself as well.

Definitely don't ask him what he needs you to do - that will lead him back into telling you what you need to pack for them - nope.