Help me answer a text from my ex

[southernharp]

My ex h left about 18 months ago. It then transpired that he had an OW. Same old, same old script. She was a casual friend of mine and his work colleague. I detest them both for all the deceit and for their casual treatment of me after a 25 year relationship. She doesn’tt even have the good grace to look even remotely sheepish if I see her and looks at me with utter distain.

He wants to take the kids away for 10 days in January on a multi day river kayaking trip. My kids are 11 year old twins. This will involve a significant journey there and back, requiring en route stays in hotels, motels, whatever. She will be going too. It makes me feel physically sick to think of her sharing a room with my kids, eating dinner with them every evening, having breakfast with them every morning, sharing a kayak with one of them, basically acting like she is their Mum. It feels like she came to my home as a friend, looked at my life and thought “that’s what I want”.

I know that I can’t outright refuse the trip and. I have to let them go. I have been stalling and largely ignoring his hectoring texts but I will need to give an answer at some point. I am so reluctant to say that’s fine, as I am not at all fine with it. I don’t want him to be any under any illusion that I am cool with this and that I condone his relationship with this woman. Can anyone help me word a text in reply?

This is incredibly childish asking strangers to word a text message so you come across as icy. I am sure that your ex already knows you don't approve of OW and him going off with her. Your children have a right to see him without their being tension between you both, I see no harm in being civil what's done is done.

Id go with Cabarnet's suggestion, the children may be just unsure about the holiday and feeling caught in the middle. Certainly don't text how hurt you're feeling, needing time to heal etc he doesn't care and only wants to know if they're coming. I wasted a lot of time trying to appeal to my ex's better nature when he had simply stopped caring about me at all and only wanted me to just agree with everything he wanted.

I'm sorry op it stinks, someone once told me I would be over it when I thought about my ex and felt nothing, 4 years down the line I am there and only think about him if I need to contact him about DC. People witter on about forgiveness but actually indifference is fine too.

I don't see an issue with using "Fine". I know that you don't want him to think that it's all rosy - and the literal meaning of the word is that everything's as it should be! But "Fine" on its own can be quite cutting.

If you really don't want to use it, then I'd just text back "OK" and nothing else. You don't need lengthy texts to convey your feelings on this - concise texts only when absolutely necessary are your best weapon.

He's hectoring you because he wants you to engage. If you send him things which are emotionally involved - and being "icy" is being emotionally involved - then he knows he's getting to you. The best way to deal with him is to be neutral and completely uninterested - so keep responses factual and short.

You don't need to ask questions about packing etc. because that's his responsibility. Likewise you don't need to ask him about what clothes you need to send over - again that's up to him to work out and then let you know. Don't run around working out what they'll need - that's his job. He's the one taking them away, let him make the lists, work things out and come to you to ask you to do XYZ. It's not about being obstructive, but it is about making it absolutely clear that he's responsible for parenting - and that includes the shit-work of packing for 2 kids for 10 days away, remembering to ask for passports etc.

I've been in your shoes OP. Five ish years on and I'd still happily do the pair of shits a bad turn if possible. I have a rich and probably unhealthy fantasy life where I do .

However...I will never feed into their 'bitter ex' narrative. Because they don't care about my feelings and they certainly don't deserve to know what they are. The less information they have about you and your life the better. Don't feed the vultures! They probably spend a disproportionate amount of time discussing how unreasonable you are. It helps bind them, helps then unite over how right they are because you're 'wrong '. Rob them of this wherever possible.

Send as upbeat a text as possible. If upbeat isn't possible calm and emotionless is best. Can you ask to clarify dates because you have plane tickets to buy for your child free holiday? Fake a new, mysterious life they know nothing about even if it's too early to want one.

Don't supply clothes etc. His holiday his problem.

Focus on the fact that as pps have pointed out OW will have a bumpy ride. If they've thought of themselves as star crossed lovers up until now, a dose of concentrated reality will take the shine off no end.

I think you just need to make the best out of a crappy situation. Think about what the kids will gain from the experience.

First talk to the kids about if they want to go and how they feel about the trip

@Charolais that is some of the worst advice I've seen on MN. Children aren't some sort if pawns in a game!

Interesting. Is this the sort of holiday you actually would have done as a family, would the children have enjoyed it in that context.

My reply to him would be "Permission granted, on the condition you have asked the children and they do want to go. That you'll organise all clothes, meds, equipment, jabs, travel docs, pick ups and drop offs. If the kids change their minds, for whatever reason, you accept the plans may need to change"

Of course rhe kids want to go, they just don’t want to tell you and hurt you, hence them fudging it.

Ultimately as this is a long term relationship it would be better for your kids to get to know this woman and for the relationship to be good. The kids being happy and comfortable is important.

Send a text back saying sure, let me know the details ie pick up etc. Tell the kids they are going so they can get excited, don’t let them see your feelings, be excited with them.

You’ve been split up 18 months. He knows you don’t condone the relationship, but to be honest, he doesn’t need your approval. Seek some councilling and help to help you move on. And put the kids first. As hard as that may be.

Your twins aren't sure they want to go.
How well do they know the OW? Do they like her? Do they feel a huge amount of animosity towards her for being their Dad's new GF or are they largely indifferent?

Depending on all those answers, I'd text back in very simple, short terms.
"The twins don't want to go"
"The twins don't know if they want to go"
"The twins don't want to go if she's going too"
or whatever.
If they DO want to go then:
"As the twins want to go, they can. I will need details of where you will be for safety reasons" and stick to practicalities.

If they want to go but really don't like her, don't worry, they won't make her holiday fun at all.

I have been stalling and largely ignoring his hectoring texts but I will need to give an answer at some point.

What are these hectoring texts exactly? Are they asking or telling?

Why not just say 'sure' and be done with it?

The texts are telling, not asking. Control is his thing. I cannot say fine or sure. Both suggest a friendliness I will not convey. I have had counselling, thanks. I am just plain angry with both of them. It is a process and all the counselling in the world will not make the process go away. I am not sure how exactly I am being childish asking for advice from others who might have experienced this. I know that unless the kids express a clear desire to not go, then I have to let them and make them feel I am cool with it. Excited, no. It’s not some fantastic adventure he is providing - it’s a bog standard kiwi holiday with his OW and is not so different from the sort of things I would do. Yes, this would have been the kind of thing I would have liked to do as a family, but it was hard to get him to go to the end of road with me and as for spending money ...

Your response does t need to be friendly or icy. Just keep it factual. Yes they can go, you assume he will sort out the appropriate clothing required for this outdoor activity.

I know it's tough but you have to make this easy for your kids. What you do doesn't affect your ex or OW but your kids. Make sure that your children know it's perfectly fine for them to have fun with their dad on holiday and that you have no ill feelings towards OW. Otherwise this will really hurt them and it isn't about them. They don't need to worry about disloyalty etc.

How are you with your life? Are you working, going out, having fun?

They want you to be bitter and vengeful, OP. Don't give them the satisfaction. Be utterly factual and neutral in your communications. You'll probably find your emotions start to follow your actions.

You've got every right to feel as you do but you must act as if you are detached. Icy isn't detached.

Try writing a letter that you don't send, expressing all your feelings. That can be very therapeutic.

I have lots of ill feelings towards OW so that isn’t true. I am not supporting a trip. Just allowing it because the kids are likely to enjoy it. I work all the time to keep the show on the road.

The texts are telling, not asking. Control is his thing. I cannot say fine or sure. Both suggest a friendliness I will not convey

Yes and this is why he manages to press all those buttons.

Always do the opposite of what controlling people want you to do, it is the only way to get out of that roleplay.

Reply 'Ooh yes I have something in the offing that week ;)' and you can be sure it won't happen.

And I am not detached from what my children are doing. How could I be? So, how can I send a detached reply? And not fine or sure because they both suggest approval? I am not willing to engage with his packing list either. I’m not going to flipping help him in this.

Make him ask them face to face, make him tell them its with OW.

Yes, he had rights, but he has responsibilities, don’t enable him to avoid any awkwardness.

I tell you, its better your kids face exactly who he is and deal with the hurt, then they can start knowing how to build their lives.

Im sorry fir you OP, its shit.

I am not willing to engage with his packing list either.

Yes don't do that!

This is really, really hard, I would totally hate it. Poor you, South. I feel for you.

OK I see where you're coming from. Text back "Permission granted" and leave it at that.

It's factual, unemotional and does not convey any kind of excitement or otherwise. It also reminds your Ex that he may want to be controlling, but that actually he can't just do what he wants without your say-so as well.

I'm sorry, I worded that badly. I meant, detached in the sense that you must act as though you are concerned only with the practicalities and logistics of it, and not your (completely normal, human and understandable) feelings about it.

You say he's controlling, that means he wants to he able to make you feel bad. He might succeed but don't let him know it. Be practical and business like in communication and don't give them any satisfaction.

Doesn't a contest mination of mine and We all have wings responses hit the nail in the head then.

They do have the merit of forcing all arrangements into exDH's court.

Of course, you could take the kids on the same holiday just before so they're extra exhausted, irritable and over it by the time they go with their dad