Help me answer a text from my ex

[southernharp]

My ex h left about 18 months ago. It then transpired that he had an OW. Same old, same old script. She was a casual friend of mine and his work colleague. I detest them both for all the deceit and for their casual treatment of me after a 25 year relationship. She doesn’tt even have the good grace to look even remotely sheepish if I see her and looks at me with utter distain.

He wants to take the kids away for 10 days in January on a multi day river kayaking trip. My kids are 11 year old twins. This will involve a significant journey there and back, requiring en route stays in hotels, motels, whatever. She will be going too. It makes me feel physically sick to think of her sharing a room with my kids, eating dinner with them every evening, having breakfast with them every morning, sharing a kayak with one of them, basically acting like she is their Mum. It feels like she came to my home as a friend, looked at my life and thought “that’s what I want”.

I know that I can’t outright refuse the trip and. I have to let them go. I have been stalling and largely ignoring his hectoring texts but I will need to give an answer at some point. I am so reluctant to say that’s fine, as I am not at all fine with it. I don’t want him to be any under any illusion that I am cool with this and that I condone his relationship with this woman. Can anyone help me word a text in reply?

Op you are not a robot, you can't pretend to like her or be ok, your kids are not stupid they will see right through it. Best to be honest with them. It's probably not a healthy lesson anyway to pretend to be ok, it just teaches them that dads are allowed to just piss off with an ow with no emotional consequences.

This can be taken too far however. It is not ok to use them as emotional pawns. It is also not ok to not allow them to form their own views of their DF partner. They may or may not like her. That is their choice. No one else's.

I agree with KatateKitten. During divorce proceedings the judge here in France told me in no uncertain terms that my children (twelve and six at the time) should not be the ones to decide; it was the parents' job to do that.

I sympathise southernharp

Sorry, I meant KarateKitten.

I like the revision but I wouldn't say 'because ..' sorry it's a minefield but he has equal rights to see the children and ultimately it isn't for you to give permission for that.

Just take out the word 'because' and the rest is fine.

Also, I have learned with my ex never to engage (even after several mediation sessions). He told me that I was NEVER to tell him what to do with his children so, for example, he would not accept me asking him to check for the return to school dates after a holiday with them. In your shoes I would just show complete indifference (despite the tumultuous and understandable emotions you feel). Say yes to the holiday in the most neutral of terms and don't give him the slightest crumb to engage with. I'm pretty sure that's what he's holding out for.

I think you sound bitter as fuck and your kids are probably dying to go on what sounds like a great adventure but say they don't know because they dont want to hurt your feelings.

Let them go and then let your marriage go.

Your relationship with him is over but your children still have a relationship with their father and that should be supported.

If you think a little trip is bad wait until she's at their weddings and holding their newborn babies!!

Myheart I think you win for least helpful post

Should you add some constraint on dates? Could he book so that you can't really take them away? In which case you can specify in either the first or last two weeks of Jan , please provide the exact dates.

He likes to give orders. So do so yourself. How about:

“I hope the boys will have a great time with their father. They do have some reservations. I trust you will forward the dates as soon as the holiday is booked and ensure they are back in plenty of time for the start of the new school term.”

Quite an empathy bypass you’ve got there, myheart.

Your second version of your text is much better. Anything where you lay the guilt on is the opposite if icy and would make you look bitter.

I'm guessing with it being 18 months ago the children know her fairly well & are farily comfortable around her? So perhaps their hesitance is because they can tell you are agitated with it. Which is bang to rights because personally I'd kill them both in their sleep 😁

Maybe you could tell your ex that you are okay with them going (but with ground rules in place if you feel necessary) but that at the moment the kids are unsure themselves?

As hard as it is I guess you have to sit it all aside for them, so maybe sit down with them. Have you guys spoken about things? 11 is old enough to know what's going on & they might be feeling really torn.
Get yourself a dartboard with the ex & the OW on & spend an hour ripping hell out of her face before you reply 😝

I think you can be pretty sure that of the kids are saying they are unsure then it means that they just don't want to hurt you. And therefore saying this to the ex is pretty mean.

If my ex takes the kids in holiday I expect him to provide all clothing etc. He picks them up from school, in their uniforms and he sorts the rest. It’s been a long haul to get to this and him complaining to me about not having them ready, but as I pointed out to him, me reminding him or organising the kids on the weekends he has them is now no longer my responsibility. It came to a head when he missed a ferry due to his piss poor planning. I could have helped - but bollocks to that. It’s his responsibility now. The kids thought it was great fun so no harm done to them

He does need my consent because 10 days away means a change to our parenting planned this needs to be agreed.

Oh and bugger off myheart. Oh - are you her? Then bugger off you deceitful tart. And there will be no holding any newborn babies as the utter twat will have shown his true colours by then.

Personally I would just be careful about the words 'consent' and 'permission' Unfortunately you have a future ahead where you are both going to need to agree on things for the children, if you make it difficult for him now he may do the same for you when you are trying to make plans or arrange things and they will only cause more stress for you and he kids.

Try your best to rise above it. She is welcome to him for 10 days of entertaining children. You are free to stock up on treats and switch off all responsibilities 😉

I think your response would be a good response. Am sorry it is such a difficult situation.

I think you are in danger of using your children as a weapon and causing them and yourself permanent damage because of your bitterness. Which is unforgivable. Their interests should come before your feelings

As she has said she needs to consent it as it changes the agreement. Come in five her a break she's not using them as a weapon at all

As an aside if/when they do go away please please make sure you have things planned for yourself. I would often stay in bed feeling so low when ex took DS (it was in school holidays and I teach so I also had time off). It got to a point where my sister would have to come round to make me tea and get me up out of my funk! If she didn’t I would often waste away the week feeling sorry for myself which is just so pointless.

It’s very easy to slip into the blues in situations like this and it sounds so obvious but please plan something with your friends/movie nights/hobbies/whatever.

A simple ‘let me know the dates you are collecting them and dropping them back’ will do the job.
Keep it simple and clear and that puts the burden on him.

She doesn't need to be full on 'using them as a weapon' to be hitting the kids through her behaviour. I would say the kids are more like collateral damage in this situation rather than the weapon as such.

The best thing for the kids would be for the OP to wave them off with a happy heart.

Mad, I am not using the children as a weapon at all. I know I have to let them go if that is what they want but he needs to get my agreement first. I simply want help responding to him in dismissive fashion. I flipping hate accusations of bitterness if you’re not Pollyanna about it all quite willing to have lovely conversations with the twat and his tart. That will not be happening.

Sorry you have to deal with this, Southern.

Here's something you might find slightly useful for the future ... I bought this guy's book to learn more about how to respond to "high conflict" -arseholes- individuals, which might include your ex and/or the OW. Nothing wrong with your feelings of frustration, but this method can give you a useful structure for wording communications that are straight and to the point and don't pull you in to letting a controlling jerk think he's yanking your chain.

www.biffresponse.com/