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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Didn't want to be back on here so soon

213 replies

greenberet · 06/10/2017 07:04

After getting my last thread deleted but I have nowhere else to go _ I need to get this out

I need the X's agreement to take the kids on holiday ( not due to court order but country) and he has refused. Said he's thought about it and spoken to kids and doesn't agree.

wTF is wrong with him - the country is significant to me its where my mum was born - I've never been and I want to take the kids - I've always wanted to go and made the decision to do it after getting breast cancer i knew he was going to do this - he did this before during the divorce process and the solicitors were arguing over the finer points of it all - in the end I backed down because of the hassle - this wasn't even to this country just not uk.

I had wanted to go October half term - I had already changed the dates from earlier in the year due to not being right time with kids needing to revise etc and for one reason or another haven't got round to booking anything yet. Whether it was going to be possible I didn't know but thought I'd see what his reaction would be.

Right now I can't say how I feel I am too numb to cry - this is just one continual onslaught after another - I am supposed to be free of him -but he can still dish out the abuse every time

I would be on the floor if I hadn't expected it - but even so I'm pretty close. what is his fucking problem.i have once again lost the motivation to do anything - I had a hospital Procedure yesterday - this was enough to contend with.

Please those that have commented before and told me I am on some "pity party" please refrain from commenting - I do not need this. In fact I don't really care if I get no comments - this is my record of what's going on in my head and one day I shall put all my posts together - if you read thank you

OP posts:
greenberet · 22/10/2017 09:59

I have something to say that I have only briefly mentioned before - my kids were conceived through IVF which was mainly paid for by my x in laws. I realise without their help I probably would not be a mum to two beautiful babies.

Since the breakdown of the marriage I have had no contact with xFIL - he was very nasty to me at a time when I was trying to get him to acknowledge his Ds breakdown.

When he briefly fell out with X over An issue between OW and kids he came to me again and I was prepared to forgive for him to see his grandkids. However I'm not sure what happened but somehow X managed to persuade him that what I was saying was lies ( about x not supporting me financially) and it was turned against me with a solicitors letter telling me not to have any further contact.

I have woken up today wondering whether the x views the kids as his because his family effectively "paid" for them

I realise I am off on a tangent again - will I ever get this resolved in my heart so that I am at peace - will I ever know that I truly put my kids first or did I act selfishly to fulfill my own needs or fears - I thought I had it all - did I get complacent - was the "all" all based on materialism and not love - my Dd wants to come home cos she misses the hot tub - she has said this jokingly but maybe this is the truth - I read somewhere that the truth makes us either laugh or cry - right now I am blubbing

OP posts:
greenberet · 22/10/2017 12:30

And so is this where the x tries to stick the knife in - again - my Dd has messaged me saying he has spoken to them about them going to his weekly and she is asking me is this good or bad. I've asked what his justification is he has said if we all think it's better suited - so is this better suited for kids him or me - is he about to put kids first for once? Well this would be the first - is this better suited to me - when I am currently at my lowest when I think everything has been about fighting for my kids and I've run out of energy and somehow feel I have failed them or is this purely about him and his desire to destroy me. The impact on me - well it will hit financially that's for sure - child maintenance and child benefit if we are 50/50 - child tax credits I'm not sure - so I will eat more into my housing pot to maintain the family home. The x wanted this from the start I said no as I did not think it was in the kids interests - too much disruption for them and how would it fit in with his work and overnight stays - also Ds does not cope well with uncertainty this will be disruptive even more so.

The x has completely ignored my communication about him paying half Ds school fees - does this mean he will now contribute - I doubt it. He ignored my request for a break until I was almost at breaking point.

Is this where he gaslights/ manipulates kids - they obviously want to please both of us - makes them believe he is out to help me by having them half the time - no actually what would help me is if he had been paying what he should be paying via CMS, if he had given his authority to the pension people instead of mucking about for weeks and he had given permission foe me to take kids away,

See I doubt my own mind - continually do all the time - want to believe this is for everybody's good as it should be - but nothing and NOTHING
He has done so far has been in anyone's interest except his own. Just when I think I am about to get back on track he throws another curve ball and knocks me off again.

I have been thinking about going to WA or rights of women - I need some confirmation that what is happening here is a continuation. Of the subtle but corrosive abuse that I feel I have been subject too.

Does anyone get this - if it was full on obvious there would be no doubt - but it is this low level manipulative stuff - I have just looked up the meaning of coercive - does this describe It - somehow getting people to do what you want them to do - which may go against their natural instinct or desire but they are too fucked up to realise this - is this because they lack self esteem, because they have never had firm boundaries or because they have been so mucked about with they do not know what and could be convinced that black is white and vice Versa because their own radar is so far off the mark.

Is this that type of syndrome where the victim identifies with the abuser to protect themselves - is this what I have done with my own DF - did I "choose" someone like my DF because of this - or was I seen as a target - am I completely screwed up - have I read too many books and come up with this gibberish nonsense or am I onto something here

If I had been hit it would be easy - I could say yep to my own DF and yep to my X - but instead I have a dm who was sectioned due to MH and I think I'm pretty close - maybe I need to speak to someone who also gets MH at a far higher level - ruby wax springs to mind - she seems to have a handle on it.

Fuck my heads whirring

OP posts:
greenberet · 28/10/2017 06:40

Can it get any fucking worse.

Having managed to fend off a breakdown for now and feeling as though I was slightly getting back on track - even managing to post on some threads on here and feeling pretty ok about things I have just got up to make a cup of tea and found Ds is smoking weed

How do I feel about this - fucking hell thats how - he had a friend here last night - I have commented on a thread I heard him laughing in the kitchen - fucking hell I am so stupid!

I have just looked up teens & weed I've read the link here www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/02/23/clever-teenagers-twice-likely-smoke-cannabis-due-curious-minds/

It doesn't make me feel any better - yes I know it's pretty ' normal' how normal is normal ? - but I DO NOT NEED THIS.

I have text the x - I don't give a fucking shit that it is 6.30 and he is with OW - I am not dealing with this on my own.

Funny thing last night Ds came to give me a kiss I said to Dd is he smoking as in normal cigarettes - I thought I could smell smoke - he has been smoking these fucking e cigs for some time - Dd said she couldn't smell smoke but I saw a slight twitch in her face - now I know why.

I am trying not to overreact _ or maybe I should - right now I could scream in his face just like the bloody thread I have been commenting on. I am angry I am disappointed is this another repercussion of the fucking x - yes I know he could have done it anyway.

Once again my life feels like it Is spiralling out of control. I have just put some pieces together about a family member that could link to Parkinson's disease.

Neither the x or I smoke I have never touched drugs of any description - only fucking prescribed ones - you can tell I'm angry so fucking angry

  • I will speak to my dbro - he will give me some perspective on this

Fucking bloody great

OP posts:
greenberet · 30/10/2017 12:49

I thought I was making some progress I managed to keep calm over the weed issue - I went out Saturday which was probably the best move and made Ds aware that I had seen it - he told me it was his mates - I'm not that stupid I don't believe him and the stuff is still in his room.

I left Ds pretty much to himself yesterday Dd was at work. Ds was supposed to be going out but his plans changed and so he was here instead.

I have just spent the morning clearing up the kitchen - most of the washing up is dsS - I asked him to do it last night he said he would do it in the morning - he has just got up.

There are also wet towels all over the place from him. I know it's not Dd she is not here

Both kids have dental appointments today that the x arranged from last week as he couldn't be bothered to take them - Ds has just told me he is going out and won't be back for his dentist appt.

I have just lost it again - I confirmed last week's appointments with dentist x then rearranged _ I've confirmed again and now Ds is saying he's not going - there will be a fee for this. I am already fucked off as I am paying for the kids denplan I've asked the x to take it over he ignores.

Ds has just said to me I haven't shouted for a week - I have felt better but right now I'm back down again - I told him about the weed he said he only got it cos his mare was here - I've had nothing from the x - I doubt the x has spoken to Ds although he was speaking to him last night.

He has already spoken to Dd about her spending extra time there this week - nothing to do with the fact OWs kids are on half term I bet

I have to keep going with this I am not going to let it beat me but it is a continual uphill struggle. I am back to worrying about finances again and need to do some action on this. I'm also worried about Dd but cannot say on here why

The bloody clock change messes with my sleep _ I'm tired again and my mood has dropped after trying to be a bit more positive.

OP posts:
greenberet · 30/10/2017 16:00

is it just a coincidence i wonder that I get an email from the X saying he no longer gets text messages from me after i emailed him this morning and then post on here - his reply is after this

he wants to know how ive dealt with it and if ive addressed it with ds
he says ds hasnt mentioned it to him - errr come on why would he

my mood is not good - i am angry and upset all over again - talking to my bro about this at the weekend he told me about a friend who nose dived just like this when his parents went through an acrimonious divorce - completly set his life off on another path

i have to keep it together my ds needs me more now than ever

OP posts:
greenberet · 30/10/2017 16:04

i think its time for me to take this off thread - i have wanted to keep it on here for support and incase someone else can benefit from my experience but as noone seems to be commenting maybe its time to go - i have got stronger i can deal with this - just another bump in the road

OP posts:
OliviaBenson · 30/10/2017 18:50

I'm sorry op, I don't have any advice but didn't want this to go unanswered.

I think you would benefit from speaking to WA.

Also with regard to your son, stop doing anything for him. Don't do his washing. He needs to learn some basic respect. Do you give him money? Stop while you have to pay for his dentist appointment.

Stay strong.

greenberet · 31/10/2017 07:31

Thank you @OliviaBenson for caring x

I came across this article yesterday - so significant
themindsjournal.com/post-narcissist-stress-pnsd/

OP posts:
greenberet · 31/10/2017 09:22

I feel like I am going under again - I am really having to dig deep to get to yoga this morning as it is I will be late even with the extra hour.

Ds came back for his dentist appt - which I thanked him for - but it all kicked off in the car all because I asked them if they read the articles I send them about depression. Basically no,

I m not going to go into details for now but the break I have had has just been negated in the events this weekend and the discussion that entailed yesterday.

I cannot go on like this - I wanted to resort to sleeping tablets last night but I refrained - but my heads a fog this morning I can't get going - the mask is having to go on again I feel I am on the verge of tears again.

My skin is painful - full o f crater like sores that don't seem to be responding to the antibiotics and cream- is it any wonder with the stress I have an open apptment to get back in touch with dermatology

And yet again in trying to clear up the divorce shit I came across another piece of evidence that supported everything I was saying. Another bit of information that my solicitor missed.

Im blubbing again now - you cannot avoid stuff no matter how hard you try - I'm coming y
Up to the anniversary of my mums death and I have my breast cancer mammo coming up - if stress is the cause of this ... well

I feel like I have 20 years of anger that I repressed that is coming out - my poor poor dcs what have I done to them my Ds needs love I know that but I'm expressing it all wrong - I know so well where this can go I'm swapping with not wanting to go there and stick my head in the sand but every time I try and deal it ends up in arguments

I

OP posts:
greenberet · 06/11/2017 06:08

My emotion in last post was probably due to what was coming.

My Ds told me last Wednesday that x had taken him to see the gp. It was on the pretence of a check up but when they got there x told the gp it was about drugs and then a discussion took place about the dangers etc.

Ds was very reluctant to talk to me. My initial reaction was one of surprise because I had anticipated the x doing nothing. I sent him an email thanking him for this and asking if they had seen my usual Gp. My initial feeling was one of relief - I thought this would deal with the matter but I should have know better.

A bit later on Ds tells me x is making him speak to the head at school. I email X asking him to explain what's going on and that I feel the school doesn't need to know and Ds does not need heavy handed treatment.

Ds is becoming increasingly distressed.

I then get a very long email from the X basically telling me that he had searched Ds bedroom found an old bag which would imply Ds had more than enough stuff for personal use, listing 'facts' for the summer holiday when Ds went to a couple of festivals. Saying that he had spoken to drug support services and will be involving them and speaking to the school because as all his friends are involved from school he feels the school need to take some responsibility. X is also restricting his money to stop him and has made Ds aware that he is never to take drugs to his house.

The email implies that x is doing everything in Ds interest but there is an undercurrent to it that is very subtle and is only apparent from knowing him so well,

The trip to the Gp is probably to get this on record and a deliberate action to try and undermine my parenting. It was not my usual Gp - I had just spoken to him the week before about my concerns for Ds and he suggested some counselling - this was before I knew about the drugs.

The email also implies that X is taken a very responsible approach and that basically by me allowing Ds to go to festivals this summer I am behind this. Same with the money situation but he forgets that last weeken he was trying to help Ds find a job.

The involving of the school is the backlash because I have paid the school fees - something that he knew nothing about.

There are phrases in the email that have been used before - particularly with the long email over house security etc the first night I left the kids on their own. This email has been written with input from OW I know exactly what it is all about.The x says his family love him - not he loves him - odd turn of phrase when he does not have a family anymore - unless OW considers herself as his family!

I have told the x I understand the implications of all this but a heavy handed approach with Ds will not work. He does not need further punishment he is already hating himself - he needs love and support.

As a result I had to give Ds piriton to get to sleep.

He has been worrying about this ever since - he returns to school today after half term. He chose not to go to his DF this weekend for contact but to stay here instead. This was even knowing that this choice would probably make X angry - says it all really.

I have spent the weekend trying to keep Ds 'calm'

I emailed the x last night reiterating that Ds is feeling very anxious that I don't think the school need to be involved but if he is going to speak to them I want to be involved too particularly due to previous issues with Ds.

X has told Ds he is speaking to the school alone - if previous behaviour is anything to go by X will not tell me what he is doing - he will leave me hanging and therefore Ds remains anxious because he too does not know what is going on.

I am exhausted - is it any wonder. I have not slept - I'm worried for Ds and what the x may do. If the school decide to take action and make an issue out of this the end result is that Ds could be expelled.
This would be devastation for him and I would not like to say what I am fearful of could be the impact on Ds.

So I am waiting for a response from x - he told me in the past he does not read my emails - this is not true - he picks and chooses which ones he reads & responds too -which ones he ignores.

I have text him also - he told me he does not receive my texts which must mean he blocks me - again another tactic just to avoid. This is the continuation of the stonewalling that went on during the marriage.

I have asked how I am supposed to contact him if there is an emergency with kids - no reply!

I actually spoke to himon the phone after Ds had phoned him pretty distressed wanting to know what he was going to do. I heard with my own ears him gaSlight his own son with what he said and what Ds understood he said. I told him that this was not helping Ds - Ds didn't need the school involved - he basically dismissed anything I had to say saying my pre conceived ideas were all rubbish.

This is were I'm at - this is how it never goes away - how am I supposed to get. Myself together with this continuous crap and you know what really surprised me Ds said that's the first time you've spoken to each other in over 2 years - this is where Ds hurting -this is what he can't get his head around - that 2 people who supposedly loved each other and were together for 20 years - whose kids thought they had a happy life until all this - and who can blame him - what he has been through is hell.

The only difference between me and him - I'm taking legal drugs to help me deal with this shit! Everything else I totally get

OP posts:
jeaux90 · 06/11/2017 06:23

Hey green beret. He's a narc right? Or displaying some narcissist traits at least. If he is you have my full sympathy

Can I just say that I think you communicate with him way too much. I know you are trying to take the kids away but it sounds like you have too much communication going on with him which he thrives on.

I assume the school, services etc know the story with him so holiday aside, do you really need so much contact?

greenberet · 06/11/2017 06:34

Hi Jeaux yes I believe he is

In taking the kids away are you referring to the holiday I was hoping to do?

Yes I probably do communicate with him too much but I was told we have to co parent in the interests of the kids - this is what I am attempting to do.

It's up to him how he chooses to deal with it - and really I don't give a shit if he thrives on it. It would be far easier if he had fallen off a cliff but as he continues to want to play games with me and use the kids as pawns this is what it translates as.

I'm Trying to document exactly what it is like to co parent with a narc - maybe I'll send it to wa for their campaigns.

The fact that some on here say my posts sometimes sound disconnected, incoherent and make no sense is when my head is whirring from the emotional abuse - this is as close as I can get to the bruises for a punch!

OP posts:
Mirrormirrorotw · 06/11/2017 06:47

Hey Green

Sounds like you may be dealing with a narc? All I can say is this: he isn't going to change and you are giving him far too much headspace and you are making yourself ill. That isn't a judgment, but I am speaking from personal experience. You mention your childhood and being basically taught that your instincts/opinions/judgments were wrong. Were you also not allowed any emotion that didn't fit with how your caregivers thought you 'should' feel? Were you regularly told you were imagining things/too sensitive/too loud/too naughty/too stupid etc etc?

You have been primed for narc abuse and it's not something you can just undo - second guessing/self-doubt/worry/anxiety-fear of saying 'no' will be hard wired for you.

For your own sanity find yourself a very good therapist and be willing to pay for it. Or you won't be the first (and unfortunately not the least) woman to end up going under and losing everything.

greenberet · 06/11/2017 22:06

The x has made an appointment to see the head. I contacted the school and asked them to let me know if he did.

He is refusing to tell me the time of his meeting.

My Ds came home from school today and said x didn't go to the school - he was checking on his phone to see the X's location. I have not told him yet the meeting is on Thursday. Ds will become distraught and I want him to sleep.

I went into panic mode about this this afternoon not knowing what to do. I do not believe this is the schools issue to deal with I believe it is ours as parents.

The x is looking for someone to blame other than admit that he is in any way responsible for this. I spoke to Dd about this earlier she told me previously kids have been suspended. If this happens to Ds I am really concerned about how he will take it.

I am numb from this all - I feel somewhat detached from what is going on - I have not managed to do very much at all today been on here of and on trying to distract myself. I am so tired but not sure I will sleep.

I tried to speak to WA earlier but lines were busy. I will try again.

OP posts:
whenthestarsturnblue · 06/11/2017 23:17

You for yourself have to take a breath. He is playing a fiddle and getting pleasure from your responses. He is your past, he is not your future and the only issues are day to day ones. Stop all communication with him, all of it. Can you get an intermediary? Postpone the trip, it's not fair but it will upset you to the point that even if you got court-ordered permission, it would be ruined. As regards the school situation and the drugs - what is the official situation with custody - joint?

greenberet · 08/11/2017 07:55

when im not even going to attempt the holiday - i have had enough of courts and a legal system that i have lost faith in.
there is no official agreement re kids - they were 13 at the time - its one night a week & eow to him

mirror

this ..

You mention your childhood and being basically taught that your instincts/opinions/judgments were wrong. Were you also not allowed any emotion that didn't fit with how your caregivers thought you 'should' feel? Were you regularly told you were imagining things/too sensitive/too loud/too naughty/too stupid etc etc?

yeah i grew up in a "traditional" family sahm & dominant df - my dm suffered MH issues prob as a result of my df & some of his attitudes which i now see as being off - whack! but having said this he was a product of his own upbringing too - i have no ill will to my parents - they thought what they were doing was for the best!

but having said this yes probably too sensitive, never good enough -and I hold the schools partly responsible for this too - my reports always said "green could do better if she tried harder" - what a load of bollocks just pushed me into thinking whats the point?

ive learnt the hard way by my own mistakes tough love is not the answer - it inflames a situation under the guise of love.

I picked DS up from school yesterday - it was DF contact night - but i could not risk Ds being told that X was going into see the head and knowing the distress this would cause ds.

as it was i heard Ds speak to the X in tears - asking him not to go, telling him that this would make it worse, telling him that back in the summer before I made the decision to pay his fees that he cut his wrist with a knife, telling his DF that he does not care about him.

I can't tell you how this made me feel - I wanted to call the police - get my DS away from the pain he is being caused - i wanted to knock on the X's door with my Ds and shout at him & say look what you are doing - this is your DS -he is talking about self harm - but in the end i just brought DS home.
just writing this my anger is surfacing - how can anyone not feel anger but underneath I have this thought I chose this man to be their Df and now I am blubbing again.

It is all so relentless, so pointless, so fucking unnecessary and for what to make himself feel better - except it wont will it - it will make him feel like the shit he is and what then? up the anti to see if that makes him feel better - the only thing that will make any difference to how he feels is admitting he fucked up and trying to make things right - it is never too late - but as my DF said he is playing with "unintended consequences" and noboby has control over this.

i came across this last night - it says it all
blogs.psychcentral.com/psychology-self/2017/11/narcissists-hate-happy/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

and now I have to try and get myself together to do what i need to do as a mum when all i want to do is crawl in that black hole

OP posts:
greenberet · 08/11/2017 08:01

There are upsides and downsides to any choice you make, ways it could go right and ways it could go wrong. When we ignore ways that things could go wrong, the chances of unintended consequences go way up.

is this a trait of a narc? that they cannot see what may go wrong - they just believe that everything will go right for them

OP posts:
Mirrormirrorotw · 08/11/2017 09:03

I think it's less about whether they can see it or not and more about they simply don't care about the consequences.

MrsSchadenfreude · 08/11/2017 09:16

Titchy - please send your DC with a letter signed by both of you, giving consent for them to travel, even if they are 16. DD1 went on a walking holiday in Turkey when she was 17, with a friend and her family, and the immigration officer, when she returned to U.K., refused to land her and held her up for over an hour (she's a British Citizen and this is illegal) because he said she couldn't prove she hadn't been to Syria. He refused to contact DH, who was waiting airside to collect her, and wouldn't listen to the friend's parents. She was very upset. I complained to the Foreign Office, and they pointed me to some obscure bit of gov.uk (in the bit dealing with custody after divorce!) which states that under 18s need a letter from parents authorising travel. I did point out that they should perhaps put this info somewhere else in the guidance, as we had looked in gov.uk but hadn't found anything. Conversely, DD2 has travelled back and forth to the US since she was 13 with no letter and no problem!

greenberet · 08/11/2017 14:12

@MrsSchadenfreude think you have posted on wrong thread?

OP posts:
MrsSchadenfreude · 08/11/2017 23:00

@greenberet - no, Titchy said:

If the kids are 16 why do they need permission? I thought once they were 16 they could fly anywhere they wanted?

(Ds is flying alone next summer aged 16 - does he need written permission then?)

So my response was to this - yes, anyone under 18 needs a letter showing parental consent to travel alone, with one parent or with anyone else.

whenthestarsturnblue · 09/11/2017 02:10

green beret, you need to get a structure out in place here. Some other girls on here will advise I am sure. An informal custody agreement is not working. Get a legal one in place, get a no contact order, nominate an intermediary; if you have no-one, ask the court for advice. You should not have to deal with him. He is not helping your recovery at this stage. Have you a solicitor at all? Harden up a bit.

greenberet · 09/11/2017 05:32

Ok @MrsSchadenfreude - sorry my mistake missed this - thank you

when does this still apply at 16 - Ds has just said he doesn't want to see his DF for a long while

I have lost faith in the court system - judge at my final hearing totally ignored my MH - despite being under adult health and having letters from them re my depression she ordered me back to full time work in 2 years time - I have not worked for 20 yrs.

My solicitor ripped me off and then dumped me when I started questioning things - then ditto with a direct access barrister - long story but it's all on here in previous threads.

You,re right I can't recover - not with all this shit going on - I haven't had a chance to chase up CMS recently so on top of all this he's only paying £65 a week for his two fucking kids

OP posts:
greenberet · 15/11/2017 06:38

I'm awake anxious about DS - he went to his DF last night - why? I'm assuming he too wants to know what his DF spoke to the head about.

X has ignored my emails asking for information - so despite telling me in an email he would let me know what was discussed he hasn't - nor had he spoken to Ds up until yesterday - so he has left Ds hanging for 4 days.

He was at parents evening turned up partway through - I couldn't even look at him let alone speak to him - body language said it all - married for 20 years WTF? So so sad for kids,

But really pleased to hear Ds is doing good -most mentioned a lack of belief in himself though and his ability -wonder where this comes from? - need to try and help him work on his self esteem,

It all seems a bit quiet at the moment feels strange - although having said this had call from Ombudsman and solicitors are claiming I still owe them £6000! Apparently they have written to me! They have said they will waive this if I drop the investigation - I need to look up what it means to them if investigation goes ahead does it get recorded somewhere - surely it must?

I need to get on top of my skin condition - it is getting worse - seems to be spreading - I am not sure what it is - everytime I get a new eruption it is so painful - I have been googling - seems it could be linked to my immune system which is no doubt shot away what with breast cancer and continual stress - may be lupus or diabetes - my joints have been aching which is not like me _ have noticed in yoga - I have something going on with my left knee which was probably triggered when I was having the falls as landed heavily on it and it was badly bruised it hasn't been right since- a holiday would do me good but you know what I realised at the weekend - despite having the money to be able to do this ( it was always we cannot afford it with X) and someone to go with( X was always too busy and work came first ) I am still under his "control" as need him to have the kids for additional time - will he agree. I'm still waiting for his reply to email I sent back in August asking him to have them for a week in November.

And so it goes on!

OP posts:
greenberet · 15/11/2017 08:34

just came across this themindsjournal.com/reactive-abuse/

"they call you abusive for reacting to their abuse"

A very common aspect of psychological abuse and manipulation is for the abuser to claim that the victim is being abusive towards them. I’ve written about the abusers “victim complex”, and “gaslighting” in this manner before.

But right now I want to address the specific scenario in which the victim snaps at the abuser. They endure and endure, they have been told that there is nothing to react to, they have been told they overreact to everything, so they are afraid to mention their hurt, and confusion, and cannot acknowledge they are being abused.

The endure so much for so long, they snap. They scream at the abuser. Insult them. Maybe even throw in a low-blow or unfair insult. They may even physically attack, although this is very very uncommon in victims of abuse.

The abuser jumps on this reactionary outburst. They claim it is “proof” that the victim is unstable. They claim it is “proof” that the victim is the abuser after all. They can hold it up, and hold it against the victim for as long as they can, and as hard as they can.

They are not interested in talking things out. They are not interested in listening to why this outburst has happened. They have their “proof”, and that’s all they ever needed from the victim. They get to say things like, “YOU’RE the one who frightened ME”, and “you are an emotional time bomb” and “I have to walk on eggshells around you”, and have the victim believe it.

While the abuser is the actual time-bomb, and the victim is frightened and walking on egg shells, but dare not admit it or bring attention to it, or has been so deeply abused they don’t even see it themselves.

The abuser turns the roles, and paints themselves as the victim.

This leads the victim to believe they are in fact the abusive one in the relationship. They now believe they are violent and emotionally unstable, and may start describing themselves as such and seeking help for these problems.

If they break away from the abuser, they stand no chance at all against the Smear Campaign the abuser then launches. Partially because they believe they -were- wrong.

This does not mean that the reaction was okay. It is never okay to treat another person with violence. However, it is understandable. And it is very important to differentiate this kind of reaction with the kind of ongoing abuse that causes it.
I don’t think it’s fair to call Reactive Abuse “abuse”, because the word implies a severe violence that causes detriment to the mental and physical well being of the victim. “Reactive Abuse” almost never actually harms the true abuser it was aimed at – in fact it is often exactly what they wanted, and only bolsters their sense of self-righteousness and fuels their power over the victim.

A good way to tell a victim who reacted to abuse, and a psychologically abusive person creating a smear campaign against a victim is their attitudes toward their own actions.

Victims will almost always be able to admit their own faults. They will know they reacted badly and did wrong. This quality is actually what the abuser uses against them in the first place to make them believe they are the ones in the wrong. Part of healing from abuse is learning to point out which of the abusers behaviors are, in fact abuse, while still acknowledging what you handled badly. (And everyone reacts badly to things when under the extreme pressure of abuse!).

Abusers will almost never admit they have ever done anything wrong at all. Their victims will be blamed for everything. They will hold every tiny thing against the victim, even things they could not possibly control, or they have never tried to talk to them about. They use social bigotries against the victim, and in their own defense. (Especially mental illness is used in this way – they believe their own illness excuses them from every wrongdoing, and their victims illness is proof they are in the wrong).

The most dangerous, most intelligent psychologically abusive people will even try to fake being able to admit their own mistakes. But they almost always get tripped up in the details, by claiming “oh I handled that badly -” but following it up with “-but only because of (something that is the victims fault after all)”.

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