I cheated. DH discovered the affair just after it ended

[KC11]

More than 7 years ago I cheated on my H. 5 weeks in total. For me it was more about the emotional side and the hugs and smiles and texts during the day saying he was thinking about me. We did have sex several times. I ended the affair and hoped I wouldn't be found out. H, I now know, had been suspicious and managed to find out my pin code for my mobile. The OM texted me even though it was over to ask could he see me. I was in the shower oblivious to the text. H had my mobile and saw the text 5 minutes after it arrived. H opened the text and that was that. Affair discovered. Moving forwards...H and I have been arguing recently and one of the things that keeps coming up is that he wants details of the affair. Full details...where, when, how many times? Did we do 'x'? Did we do 'y'? Have I seen him in our local area? Was his child there when we saw each other/slept together? I really don't want to go into the details. Am I in the wrong?

Slarti, I hope you are in a happier place now.

mathanxiety "Which rather suggests that the OP's protests (wrt answering her H's questions) that she is not a sexy person are a little shy of reality?"

I would not for one moment expect to be able to judge another person's 'sexy'-ness via the internet. I am pretty sure you cannot either Math.

As far as I am aware there is not one script for eating disorders,for infertility, for adoption, for dating etc.

I can totally understand why anyone would have sympathy for anyone else whose partner cheated on them (especially if that person had also been cheated on) but it doesn't mean one size fits all, it just doesn't appear to be the case.

So "I am pointing out that there is a script that cheaters tend to follow." I think is just very presumptuous to assume that people who cheat will all say and do the same things.

And of course by the same token it would be very presumptuous to assume everyone is able to move on from infidelity.

"There has been on this thread a good deal of taking the OP's description of her H at face value." There always is on Mumsnet, we only ever have the OP's viewpoint.

Sandy "...which some cheaters refuse to give...because they feel it doesn't matter."

Maybe they do not refuse to give that information because it doesn't matter, maybe because they cannot remember, maybe they are scared to say what they did with another man because they partner will expect it from them and having tried it they don' t actually like it. As you yourself point out.

Having decided some act was humiliating or painful why would a person set themselves up for their spouse to expect that!

Maybe because they do not want do something that they deem even more hurtful. That's what autonomy is all about. If the hurt spouse cannot forgive without lots of details, maybe they wouldn't be able to forgive with all the details. And either way maybe they will not be able to move on.

It is very well documented that cheaters tend to follow a script. I don't know why you doubt this. The OP in this case is not only presenting a fairly classic example, but she is also showing some examples of a narcissistic demeanour.

The OP has presented a very damning picture of a man who
(a) drove her to have an affair
(b) yet wasn't so awful that she didn't want to move on, adopt a child, and continue to be married as if nothing had happened.
There is a massive contradiction in what she is asking MN to believe here.

There are discrepancies in the OP's account too:
(a) He wants to know what time of the day we had sex, which room, how it started each time, was it at our house (which it was not). did OM visit our house? does OM know where we live?

(b) H has had loads of details from me. I promised H it was never in our house. OM never came anywhere near our house. OM did not visit our house.not once.

Maybe they do not refuse to give that information because it doesn't matter. [Italian]
A cheater does not have the right to tell the person he or she betrayed what does or does not matter to that person as they work through what has been done to them. To claim otherwise is to condone boundary blurring.

This particular cheater remembers details - early evening, one drink in a pub, texts and smiles, exactly where she was when the OM texted her and the H intercepted it. Maybe the H is entitled to know that his wife swung from the chandeliers if she had never been up to that with him - can the H really make up his mind about divorce if he doesn't know how much or how little hope he has of ever engaging his wife on the same level that the OM did?

You are judging this man quite harshly and with absolutely nothing to go on if you can speculate that he would ask his wife to engage in sex acts that she did not enjoy just because she had done whatever with another man.

Divulging details is not done with an expectation of forgiveness. There is no 'you show me yours and I will reciprocate'. It is done with the hope that honesty will help the cheater claw back a modicum of respect and trust from the betrayed spouse. It is also done out of respect for the fact that the betrayed spouse is is a separate person, on a journey separate from that of the cheater, and has separate feelings and needs in the situation.

Far from understanding that, the OP here says It hurts me to see the pain I caused - that is where narcissism comes in.

Maybe she did tell him repeatedly that things did not happen at their house. Maybe he ignored her, forgot what she said or simply doesn't believe her!

What's the point in reading her thread if you don't believe her, Math!

"Maybe the H is entitled to know that his wife swung from the chandeliers if she had never been up to that with him..."

I can't see he is entitled to details. Maybe there was no chandelier-swinging! Or he just cannot accept it as a very unexciting little affair. The OP was willing to give up the OM before her DH found out.

"...can the H really make up his mind about divorce if he doesn't know how much or how little hope he has of ever engaging his wife on the same level that the OM did?"

Forcing sexual details from his wife will not enable him to engage his wife, IMHO, quite the opposite. The only exception for me would be where the sexual partner was one who changed the dynamics. I'd support the spouse knowing if the partner was a prostitute, the same sex, or a close friend or family member to the deceived spouse etc. Just my opinion, I'd not presume to put this onto others, they may not feel as I do.

"You are judging this man quite harshly and with absolutely nothing to go on if you can speculate that he would ask his wife to engage in sex acts that she did not enjoy just because she had done whatever with another man."

I am judging it is not such a leap to suggest that this information could actually have a negative effect on a relationship?

And even if a man did not set out with such intentions how long before it was incorporated into his thinking as a way for his wife to prove her loyalty potentially? That would be my concern. Again, I would not put that onto others, it may not be even on the OP's radar.

I had better step back, I may not be helping. My only concern is for the OP to find a happy life. Her husband also, of course.

I am always interested in behaviour, Italian, so I read the thread.

Bingo! He doesn't believe her. She has admitted to lying about her whereabouts (though still claims to have worked on rebuilding trust). Each non-matching account makes it harder to believe her. If the OP has included the minimising and justifications she has included here in her statements to her H, then he will undoubtedly smell a rat.

It's a huge leap to suggest he might try to make her perform sex acts that she had no interest in. It is completely unwarranted.

It is based on absolutely nothing, even from the OP - you are correct to say you are now in the realm of putting things on the OP's radar that are not there.

Why the prostitute exception to your rule on deciding the validity of a request for information? What is different about sex with a prostitute?

And what difference would it make to know the details if a spouse had sex with another man or woman (same sex)? That is the one instance where knowing the details would be 100% irrelevant.

I really do not understand the thinking behind your exceptions at all.

Italian

Maybe they do not refuse to give that information because it doesn't matter, maybe because they cannot remember

Possibly.... but having spoken to many cheating spouses, this isn't what they tell me. If it was many years ago and minute details are being asked..thats possible.

I don't speak from a BS viewpoint.... I'm not projecting from personal experience....it's from the words of betrayed and wayward spouses.

maybe they are scared to say what they did with another man because they partner will expect it from them and having tried it they don' t actually like it. As you yourself point out.

Absolutely. However, imagine that you've wanted to do a certain thing for years and he always refused. It doesn't even have to be a sexual thing. Could be a trip to a flower show. Then you find out he went with the OW. Now whether he wanted to go or not becomes irrelevant...he went. He was more concerned about pleasing her, than his wife. How do you really believe that he loves you?

So the things the WS may not want to divulge...could actually help the BS make an informed decision.

For people like the OPs husband, cheating clearly wasn't an out and out deal breaker or he would have left 7 years ago.

One of the biggest struggles for many BHs, is the type of sex. The fact that they have wanted for example a threesome, or anal sex or whatever ..which was refused...then the OM who she's known for a couple of weeks gets it.

I can try and present a different view to help BSs. Which is your wife/husband cares more about what you think and so wouldn't want to do these acts with you. They aren't bothered about the OM, so the humiliation they claim doesn't matter. Because OM isn't important.

Some BSs accept it, others don't.

It's kind of hard to believe (in some cases) that your wife willingly does things against her will for months and years that she didn't like or enjoy.

As one BS said....
"Taking a cheater back is risky. When you know the facts, you can decide if it's a safe bet"

Only replying because I have been asked.

Math not that I need to justify to you my own morals but "Why the prostitute exception to your rule on deciding the validity of a request for information? What is different about sex with a prostitute?"

I would be very upset to think a partner of mine paid a woman for sex. I consider prostitution and any kind of exploitation of women (such as pornography) to be very cruel. So I only want to be in a relationship with someone who shares my concerns. If my husband cheated I would, of course be upset, but to pay a woman to have sex is very offensive and wrong to the woman, as well as to me.

"And what difference would it make to know the details..." I did not say the details, about the sex, I meant only that it would be relevant to me if a partner cheated with someone of the same sex, just as I imagine it would be relevant if I were a lesbian and had a female partner who cheated with a men. I would not imagine my partner cheating, nor expect it, but if it did happen some things would make it worse. Such as longevity would make it worse to me.

Actually thinking a man might just exploit a situation in some way is not based on nothing. I's not necessarily true for the OP or her husband but talking generally about why people may not wish to say what happened exactly for me this may be a valid concern. As Sandy has pointed out this is not just a 'fear' or concern of mine. And I am not attempting to influence the OP, just discussing. The OP has their own reasons for saying or not saying what they want to, which for me is totally their own business. She posted here for input, so she is getting my input.

"I really do not understand the thinking behind your exceptions at all." That seems to be because you seem have one way of viewing all this, your way. I've made it amply clear I am not saying this is all true for anyone, I am expressing my thoughts, my opinion, that is all.

Sandy "However, imagine that you've wanted to do a certain thing for years and he always refused. It doesn't even have to be a sexual thing. Could be a trip to a flower show. Then you find out he went with the OW. Now whether he wanted to go or not becomes irrelevant...he went. He was more concerned about pleasing her, than his wife. How do you really believe that he loves you?

That is a really interesting point. Would the wayward spouse have the nouse to know that what they had done was a deal breaker, and knowing that was a deal breaker to confess to it? I think that is a great point but one which I would imagine would be quite hard to 'police'. So it is only the willingness of the wayward spouse to tell the truth and know what is relevant, maybe.

"One of the biggest struggles for many BHs, is the type of sex. The fact that they have wanted for example a threesome, or anal sex or whatever ..which was refused...then the OM who she's known for a couple of weeks gets it." If that something that comes up for males and females?

If someone is happy to have a three some in principle, how do they square that with the other person being unfaithful being such an issue?

Sandy it sounds like you provide a good service, are you a counsellor?

Would the wayward spouse have the nouse to know that what they had done was a deal breaker, and knowing that was a deal breaker to confess to it?

I really don't think they do understand it. The thing I find is that the desire to please the OM/OW (sexually) is very high.... especially for women.

For men...its often lavish gifts, expensive restaurants and holidays to please and impress the OW.

You can imagine how a BW feels about that, when she never got any of it.

In many cases this need to know, is trying to understand "is s/he with me because the OM/OW didn't want them or because it's easier to stay". ... knowing thr details can help with your decision.

Quick example... very basic....just to illustrate my point... If my DH cheated ..and I found out they only ever went to McDonalds and stayed in cheap hotels ... I'd think okay...its really bad...but if my view would change (I'd be more angry) than him taking her to the Ritz and to upmarket places....I'd feel differently.. perhaps because my DH doesn't part with money easily. I'd think he must really be taken with her ...that could definitely affect whether I give reconciliation a chance or not.

^^just an example though. I'm not a candidate for reconciliation. I know myself well enough.

is that something that comes up for males and females?

The sex thing bothers men more in terms of what they did...Society places more pressure on men to perform sexually..so their ego gets battered when their wife sleeps with another man. They think..was he bigger..better

Women tend not to think..was she tighter or whatever.

BWs struggle with their husband having performed oral sex on the OW...due to the intimacy of it though.

if someone is happy to have a three some in principle, how do they square that with the other person being unfaithful being such an issue?

That's very different. It's with consent and agreement .It's not sneaking around. Similar to open relationships. It's not done behind your back.

Just like the cuckold or hotwifing fetishes ...they aren't cheating.

Sandy it sounds like you provide a good service, are you a counsellor?👍

Can I just say that we all agree that people view this very differently. For me I needed every tiny detail in order to start healing. No trickle truth. I only asked for one thing. The whole truth and that every question was answered absolutely honestly. No changing stories, no denial, assuming that I already knew about things, which I did in some cases as I contacted the OM directly. It was the only thing I wanted, no, needed. Some people just want it to go away. It took a while but once she understood that i wanted the truth, no matter how hurtful, it all came out and I have moved on and accepted it. We are together still and, although a cliche, stronger in our relationship. It was never the act itself, we all make mistakes. It was the deceit, so to get rid of deceit, you have to learn to tell the truth. That's my story. Does anyone think I am unique? No I'm not. It's what I needed. Don't judge me on what was best for me. If he has decided that this is best for him, then only he knows that. Not the person who had the affair, only him. If this is what he wants why the discussion? It's not up to her. Read any book or website on affair recovery. There is no time limit on it either.

@certificateofauthenticity

Your post is exactly what I've been saying.

Just popped back to say that I completely understand why many spouses of a cheat may need and request details for completely defensible reasons. But don't make the mistake of thinking all betrayed spouses are the same. Sometimes good people do bad things, and sometimes bad things happen to a stone cold cunt. By evidence I would give you my ex-husband, but I'm afraid you'll have to take my word for it. However as I cheated on him perhaps you won't take my word on anything, which is fine.

Anyway, I previously advised the OP not to disclose anything which degraded or humiliated her. I stand by that, as her posts struck chords with me remembering my situation all those years ago. I hear what some of you are saying about why you needed to know all the details, just be aware your reasons may not be the OP's dh's.

Reading your Op and posts it reads to me like your Husband left you way before you went elsewhere affairs don't happen in a vacuum also it takes two active emotionally willing participants to be in a marriage.

You had an affair you were wrong that was 7 years ago. You stayed together you apologised you also wore the shame from your family's which I think is quite brave and shows character to publicly admit to a mistake. I can promise you that there will be members of your family/friends who have also strayed funnily you just don't know about it. He should have been able to put it behind him by now. He has not instead he's used it as a weapon to use and abuse you that is not ok healthy relationships do not look like this.

Time to forgive yourself get yourself out of the stocks and live your life accordingly free from abuse.

Your affair sounds like a symptom not a cause. Don't take anymore blame you are only half at fault marriages fail it's just one of those things.

Good Luck keep talking

In case anyone needs to know the questions were answered 7 years ago when DH asked me. He does not believe me which leads me to think OM has been antagonizing DH just for kicks. this is why I think they must have had recent contact.

For what its worth I and OM have not had contacted for over 6 years. I saw him walking along (from a distance whilst I was driving and in a different car to the one he knew me with). I had sunglasses on and he would not have seen me. I had no contact and will continuwe to have no contact.

DH said a couple of months back if you see him out in the town or somewhere you must not speak to him at all, not one word. I said I know and that I would not speak to him if i ever see him. I would totally look away. DH doesn't believe me.

I wanted to do a certain sports activity in a localish place, but DH does not want o because he says i went there with OM. I didn't but DH doesn't believe it. With the OM (2007) we went to a certain location near coast for a few hours with his child, where no one would see us. DH now huffs and puffs if the place is mentioned on a TV programme. I get that he does not want to visit that place which DH and I had never been to but don't taint a whole location because I walk along the road in said place for 3 hours on a cold day.

Also, DH wants to know did I give him b*job? Did I have sex in the shower with OM? Answers: no and no. DH does not believe me.

It is time for me to leave DH. He does not want me or like me. He just can't let go.

I am looking into renting a flat a mile or two ago from my house. I need and want to be near my family and work.

name changed by the way

I think it's awesome that you are looking for a flat at a location that means you will have family and work nearby. What about friends? Do you have some friends that you could spend more time with? Have fun with?

I suspect that you'll have to do all the legal work to end your marriage. Please go for a good settlement. You gave your all for the cause, but it wasn't enough for him. He didn't show up for the marriage.

I wish you well. Hopefully, October will be a happier month.

for you OP

Septemberhasbeenmiserable hope your new life will be so much better. Make sure you get your share of the marital property.

I think it is time to leave too.

But could you elaborate on your remark earlier on your H finding out you were in one place when you said you were in another?

Also, what did you mean by this statement from your OP a few days ago:
I will have to tell him what he wants to know so he doesn't wonder any more.

It contradicts what you have posted just now - In case anyone needs to know the questions were answered 7 years ago when DH asked me.

From the OP:
The H wanted Full details...where, when, how many times? Did we do 'x'? Did we do 'y'? Have I seen him in our local area? Was his child there when we saw each other/slept together? I really don't want to go into the details

Were you ok going into details back when you told him the answers to all his questions?

OP, there are many contradictions here.
I can see where your H is coming from.

math What I mean was I came home from work late but was actually sitting in my car talking to him and chatting about our respective days.And if i said I was at the gym exercising for 1 hour between 6 and 7 pm I wasn't I was meeting OM at a pub for a quick wine/beer and then rushing home to my house.I could easily stretch my working day to say 6.30pm because I have the type of job that has busier times at the month end. But really I was meeting OM in a street to talk and cuddle and spend 30 mins with him because he would smile at me and listen to me and it was all a far cry from my home life. I was smitten with OM's attention. Once I saw it was all non-reality and that a real life with OM would be nothing like the 30 mins here and there that we managed to snatch I finished the affair. OM did try to get me to meet him after I'd finished it but I did not reply.

OM and I could only text each other or phone each other so I used keep my phone on silent at home so H would not hear the beep.I don't like hearing mobile phones beep.I want to choose when to look at my mobile rather than being a slave to it e.g. every text/emails/Facebook notification and Ebay update etc. On a weekend day I don't switch my phone on until I want to. It gives me peace and quiet and there is a landline at home which my family phone at weekends and evenings.

H knows he upsets me by asking again about the OM e.g. 'Did he pay for your drinks or were you paying for them because he's got no money?' 'Did he buy you any gifts?' 'Did he buy you a birthday present/card?' 'Did he suggest kinky sex?' 'Did I ask him to send me me rude photos?' 'Did I send him any rude/semi-dressed photos? 'What does he have that was so much better?' 'Have you seen OM in our town?' 'Have you memorised his phone number?' 'Do you know where his lives now that he left the flat he was living'at/renting?' @Did you

H works shifts that vary over approx 16 week period. The schedule is emailed to each member of staff periodically but lots of staff swap shifts and do each others shifts in return for a different start or finish time. Hence I do not know his start/finish times because a. H does not show me the email b. i ask to see the email and get told It all changes all the time so there is no point me emailing it to you because it will change at short notice c. you might not know if there is a change to the rota shift because of x reason so i will just tell you I am on early shifts.This means he might start work at 5am/5.30am/6.00am/6.30am/7.00am/7.30am/8.30am/9am/9.30am/10am/10.30am etc Shifts are of varying durations as well. Some are 6 hrs, some are longer up to a max of 8 hrs.H and friends at work have favours which they then return as and when they can.A day off can be swapped at short notice as long a manger approves the change of shifts. When H works a shift that starts at 5am he gets up at 3.30am.When H works a shift at 10am he gets up at 8am. I am generalising but you get the idea. If he is off shift he could get up at 7am or could get up after I leave to go to work. We do not have kids. Our routine is pretty haphazard.

I don't have any more information.

H is giving me silent treatment.I think it is because I am not answering the repeated questions again and again.

I ask H if he wants to split up he says he doesn't know. I ask every week or so, he says he doesn't know. He is working his shifts and coming home mostly before I get home so He could have been there since 3pm or 5 mins before I get home at approx 6.15pm.He does not 'do anything' when he is at home other than mobile phone/tablet/tv/laptop computer. There is no sign of him having made any food for himself, unless eating biscuits/crisps/choc bar, no housework done, nothing moved in any room, nothing out of place in the kitchen at all e.g. dirty plates/pans etc from night before still in the same place. Pets food bowl sometimes empty. Kitchen bin still full, 3 remote controls on settee next to him.I know shift working is tiring, I agree it is. I would not want to work shifts. I work regular 9-5 in an office. H does not suggest helping me with housework or shopping at supermarket. If I ask he will reluctantly go and literally buy the 3 or 4 things I ask for. H cannot plan a food/meal unless it comes ready made and goes in microwave. H was mollycoddled by DMIL. H did not live on his own. When I get home from work I get greeted by a sound of yawning and stretching and rubbing eyes and him laid on settee with remote controls and him wearing work uniform. DMIL thinks sun shines out of his bum.

what does he have that is so much better?

Your soon to be ex really doesn't understand that basic human kindness goes a long way in a marriage, does he.

Feel free to ignore math anxiety. She marrried a homosexual but believes that cheating was the problem in her marriage. When what a man wants is another penis to play with, inconsistencies in his stories are the least of the problem.

Also, it would be easy for him to be involved with some else with his work schedule and lack of transparency about his schedule. His behavior and questioning of you are consistent with him lying to you, and constantly being on devices can be a way of communicating with someone else,

Does he get a different deal financially depending on who actually ends it?

OP (I think you have had three names so I am just going to stick to OP!) One tiny thought came into my head when I read his tutting about a seaside location you visited with OM and his child. I did wonder if on a deep level your H is upset that this other man has a child (who you could have shared with him if you had chosen him, presumably) and you and your H cannot have children together (except by adoption, which he is not keen to pursue). Maybe on some level your H is more upset about the lack of a child together than he lets on.

OK, quite aside from whatever is motivating him to send his constant barrage of questions, which you have already answered, at you... why are you staying?

It looks to me like you have a number of choices, stay and live with his miserable teenager of a man, who seems determined to make your life a misery because of a mistake you make some time ago; or force the issue of counselling -unless we go to counselling this marriage will end; or end the marriage.

Please get legal advice. Whether you or he is the one to move out, your home is (if owned) presumably in both your names (?) and would be marital 'asserts' and a solicitor could advise on how this can be divided.

Are you afraid to go it alone? If so, I do not blame you at all. But I think at any moment your husband could choose to end the marriage and you could be faced with finding somewhere to live, starting afresh. Yes, 43 (I think you said) is not young but what if you hang on until you are 53, 63, living with a man who cannot come to terms with your 'betrayal' of him, who cannot seem to do anything around the house, and who seems to dislike you.

It's totally your life but can you honestly explain why you stayed for so long? I wonder if it would help you to write up the pros and cons of staying or going and also work out exactly why you have stayed.

All the very best.