"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[toomuchtooold]

It's August 2017, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - Aug 2017
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I've cried off from seeing my parents this week and next. I'm training at work at the mo so it's not easy to get the time out but after M's performance last week I decided to not even try.

I've just been reading a thread on the relationship board and something was said that's been said 100 times before but tonight for some reason it hit a cord, someone basically said that 'your kids won't thank you for staying in a relationship with disrespect and insults flying about'. That pretty much sums up what I've been subjected to for the past 40 years, since I was seven years old. I'm tired of hearing about it, I was fed up with it by the time I was 15 years old. I'm drained by her moaning about nonsense, I'm bored by the exact same pattern of behaviour... my dad leaves the room, my M turns to me to bitch in a gossiping way, my dad returns, she makes a ridiculous 'secret code' eye gesture (cross between a roll eye and a tut).

I thought that because I've heard it all so often and because it's gone on for so long that I'd become to think about it as background noise but it's not, even at my age and even though I can see it for what it is it's still destructive. It's struck a cord tonight because the poster said 'your kids won't thank you for it', it made me realised how I have never really challenged her about it, im not sure how I feel about that. Weak and guilty probably sums it up. I wish I had the balls to say something, part of me thinks it's pointless anyway (because she makes it up for attention/out of badness) but part of me is just dying to tell her to leave him if he's as bad as what she claims or to STFU moaning about him.

Hi everyone, having a wobble after a phone call with M. Any insights would be really welcome.

Background info, will keep it short/ vague. Had a family thing last weekend, with my my family and some extended family (all toxic and narcissistic, of course). It was really shit, I was basically invisible. I can't really give examples for fear of outing but there was some really blatant/ rude incidents, walking off mid-conversation, etc. I don't think one person asked me anything about myself or even how I was doing. Except perhaps DF who is nice. It was awful but I was friendly, without straying too far into the territory of chasing people who don't want to speak to me.

Since then for some reason M and one of my siblings has been targeting my DH whilst ignoring/ undermining me.

It's a week later. M sent a text saying she wanted a call. Unusual to have the text beforehand, so I knew I was in trouble. Called and she asked: are you ok?! I have been SO worried about you ALL WEEK! You seemed so sad and tired and not ok on Saturday! You seemed like you didn't want the visit!

Me - I'm fine, we're fine, it's fine.

M - And you just left the restaurant after lunch! You left us all there! You didn't even want the visit!

Me - What? We left for nap time like usual, and I told you all in an email a week beforehand that that's what we'd do.

M - Well I've been SO worried ALL WEEK about it, blah blah repeat repeat. Then she was super eager to hear our news, which is pretty unusual as usually she doesn't really give a crap and is quite disinterested, just has one or two things that she wants to know and that's it.

I'm left feeling really furious and upset about it. We're clearly just onto the next tactic. So manipulative. We're (me and DH) being more assertive/ far less desperate to fulfil our role etc, but I mean we're being pretty mild and we're getting all this drama just for that. My siblings have both recently moved out so she's got a codependency void to fill. The stuff she's said doesn't even make sense and it's completely not true and I'm quite offended that they were all rude to me and now she's twisted it to be my fault! Not to mention the fact that she was apparently SO WORRIED that it took her a week to bother to get in contact, and not to mention the fact that when I am actually not ok she doesn't give a crap. I gues sit's all about her, she doesn't see me, just sees what need she needs to be filled thorugh me.

On the other hand my buttons are well ad truly pressed. It's all my fault! It's true that I wasn't looking forward to the visit so maybe I gave off a negative vibe without realising it? Maybe I did come across as off or distant? Maybe they didn't chat because I seemed unapproachable or something? I feel guilty and anxious, I feel like I have betrayed her, and I am so paranoid going over and over the visit. I know it's gaslighting and all of that but it's so effective too!

UGHH I am so sick of these games :(

Sorry for the massive post, am on laptop so gets long without me realising.

Lenl A lot of your recent posts really resonated with me. Please don't apologise for posting, it's all good and all part of the process.

You posted after seeing your mum, feeling that you'd been saying it worse than it is etc (can't remember exactly as I read it this morning). The thing is that with healthy relationships, you don't have this constant bouncing between "they're toxic, it's awful" and "they're great, I'm the problem". You just have a nice normal healthy relationship. The fact that you're bouncing like that is a warning sign in itself, I think.

I think you also posted something about being expected to praise but not allowed to offer guidance. I think this might be about keeping you in your role/ in your box. Not wanting to actually know or hear you and your opinions, but just wanting what they get from you in your assigned role. All the comments from your M is just reinforcing what you should be doing/ saying. Sounds like they just want you to constantly make them feel good about themselves, they don't want to be challenged or have to have a real relationship with you with real opinions? I think it's also a way to covertly undermine you and your personhood. Only their lives and opinions count. It's hurtful, I know.

Should I call M back? Set the record straight? Tell her that no, I wasn't sad or tired or not ok or not happy about the visit, that I don't know why she would say that? That I'm stunned because the reality is the opposite, that they were all rude and ignored me? Or should I just leave it and fester in my own rage and FOG?

Chest I'm about 99% sure you were friendly and polite at your family thing, but because the scales have fallen from your eyes and you're no longer giving her the n-supply she's used to, she's noticed something is up. This has pissed her off. She's projecting her unhappiness into you. It's also a bit gaslighting as well because she's encouraging you to question what your feelings and motives were that day.

As I say I'm sure you were perfectly nice and polite at this thing but don't feel as though you need to try all that hard. If you piss them off by not being friendly enough, who cares? They're a bunch of toxic rotters, and I'm sure there are countless times in the past when they've behaved abominably to you. Of course you're supposed to forget all that and bring your nicest face to every family gathering

If I were you I wouldn't have it out with her - she won't listen, and you'll come off worst. She's practiced in being manipulative and horrible and you're practiced in smoothing things over and being nice. Who's going to "win" that phone conversation?

Rather than fester in your own FOG, could you try to mindfully make yourself aware of your emotions? If you do yoga you can do it there, or else go out for a walk or get some time alone in a quiet place, and when the feelings come, try and describe them to yourself. "I am feeling guilty that I didn't make my usual efforts to keep everyone happy, and that is making me angry at the injustice of me always having to do this emotional work. I'm outraged at my mother's fake concern..." that sort of thing. Be as descriptive about the emotions as you can. The more you let yourself feel them, the more easily they will pass.

foxrun you asked about recovering self esteem while your parent is still in contact. I think you can still work on yourself in that situation but you have to have very strong boundaries with them and be prepared for the low mood, FOG etc that you will come away with from each interaction. If your mother is in your life with few restrictions, if she phones whenever, comes round your house etc then I think it will be hard to get better. Does that make any sense?

Hi Chest My M did similar recently, suddenly took an OTT interest, I think it was because partly to reel me back in and partly because i'd had a conversation with a family member that she wasn't there to listen in on. Yours sounds similar, especially if she spotted you chatting at the family event with someone that she hasn't won over.

You're right to be alerted to the fact that if she was soooo worried how come it took a week for her to say something. If she's anything like my M the only thing she will be worried about is someone else knowing something that she doesn't.

I'd resist calling her back, for the main reason that if you do it will be a reward for her behaviour and seeing as her behaviour has made you feel like it has then it's not a good idea to reward it. There's no need to feel guilty about not setting the record straight either, she's not being straight with you so normal rules don't apply. Plus, I don't know about you but I can't be entirely honest with my M, at best having a conversation with someone that you're on guard with is mentally draining both during and after. I can't see that anything short of you falling back into line to pacify her would be good enough.

Hard bloody work arn't they

Sunflower I found that after I'd been NC for a while it got easier to think of my mother as being just this other person, and not my problem essentially. Like I knew I would never stay in contact with someone who had treated me like that if they weren't family, but it took a while for her not to feel like family any more.
IDK if you will relate to this but I feel as though I had to mourn something, and it wasn't anything my mother had done for me, it was all the things I'd done in an effort to have a relationship with her - all that hope, all that effort, all the sort of gentle loving feelings I associated with being nice to her. There was a feeling of "what will she do withoute" which was also partly a feeling of not being able to rescue anyone from my childhood - not me, not my enabling dad, and not my mother in her lucid moments. It is a hard thing to let go of.

Good morning everyone and thanks for the replies; I'm just trying to catch up.

Yesterday I felt mostly angry, today I feel just sad and low.

I think I said it before on here; if I was an only child I believe I would be able to cope better with the NC. Or if my sister actually shared my experiences and emotions. The fact that her upbringing and relationship with my parents was so different makes it hard.

Not to mention the fact that her husband actually prefers my parents over his own, and has said as much (it was at Christmas a few years ago and I heard it with my own ears). I was .

So of course my parents are going to think they are perfect and the problem lies with me!

How does this thread work? It's been going so long i wouldn't know how to join or where to look!

Hi crazyhorses, I've not been here long but I launched straight in with some of my story and everybody was very helpful and welcoming. It's a lovely thread.

Yep, just pitch in how you want! There's a bunch of resources on the OP that you might be interested in, but just post away basically. The thread sort of just rolls along continuously.

Chest ignore ignore ignore. You don't have to justify anything and remember - she doesn't really care she might say she does but that's bullshit

Well, here I go then. It has been a real eye opener to me to read some of these stories. it's easy to assume most people have functional, loving upbringings. I am really not sure what is abuse and what is dysfunctional. I have had counselling in the past but not found it helpful at all. I've been through literally about seven or eight counsellors and found them all pretty much useless.

I had a very controlling , damaged father who didn't really know how to be a father. He was angry, frustrated and sometimes hit me. He demeaned and belittled me on a regular basis, but could also sometimes be kind and loving, so it left me confused and desperate for his approval. My mother was emotionally immature and I think from reading this thread, possibly narcissistic. She wanted all the attention for herself, but was also depressed I think. She complained about my father all the time to me and several times used me as her confidante and counsellor. I was advising her on whether to leave him at quite a young age.

My mother was not affectionate towards me . She took really no interest in me or my life, provided no support and i can not remember ever even going for a coffee with her as an adult until my father died. She used to scream at us to leave when we were teenagers, stopped cooking meals and doing our washing, so we were left really to fend for ourselves. She claimed she couldn't show affection to me as my father didn't like it. She also claims my father didn't like being touched. Yet the only person who did hug me or show me love was my father, when he wasn't being abusive or controlling. I have not been able to relate to my mother as a child or adult, and she is now 80. My father died, and i have struggled to be a 'good ' daughter to her. However, I am still treated as the black sheep of the family. She talks to my like I am a 'problem'. At the same time she wants me to move closer to her to look after her in her old age! I feel torn by guilt and sadness, regret and anger. I don't really know what to feel.

My mother has no relationship with my children apart from the eldest, who she phones occasionally. We moved closer to my parents when they were young so that they could all have a relationship, but i cut off contact for three years after some time, as it became apparent that neither of them were really interested. Visits would be followed by remarks about how messy the children were, how badly they were dressed, or how they couldn't cope with more than one child at once.

My mother has always made my younger sister her favourite, and in her eyes she can do no wrong. Conversations with her are peppered with comments about how difficult life is for my sister etc etc, despite the fact that my sister has a much easier time than I did in her position. She takes an interest in my sister's children and has them to stay, something she never did with me. We were made to feel like an unwelcome nuisance.

My mother has offended my aunt who can barely tolerate her , and an aunt on the other side. She can be rude, tactless and selfish. My sister is also rude tactless and selfish, so they get along well.

I feel really sad about the family situation. At the moment I haven't spoken to my mother for weeks as she put the phone down on me and called me 'impossible' because for once I got annoyed with her bullshit and snapped at her. i was moving house, incredibly stressed and dealing with very difficult issues generally, yet all she wanted to talk about was herself

I am not sure if she is a narcissist. I am not sure why neither of my parents liked me or approved of me. I had some difficult experiences during my teenage years which they never forgave me for, or at least my mother didn't. I feel very alone. What usually happens is my mother talks to me, and relays the information to my sister, who only sporadically gets in touch with me, always on her terms. So it is a toxic triangle or dysfunction, and i am so, so sick of it. I feel like I have never had support or love from my family. It has caused me to be very depressed at times.

Finding this thread has been a gift from the gods for me.
Sociopath mother. Challenging and guilt ridden life. Low self esteem.
At times I've risen above the issues, other times I've fallen to the floor. Keeping the dirty secret of our mothers behaviour and lack of empathy, scathing judgements, her dreadful rudeness and utter contempt. Covering up for her.
So many people in the same situation.
It's so sad that so many lives have been scarred. I feel for you all.

Morning just wanted to say thanks badflump as I didn't reply. Been a bit torn up recently.
sparkly it's also been a gift for me. When I feel low and lonely I know other people here will understand. I thought my family situation was rare until I started looking and quite a few people are the same. There are probably more but like you said we feel we have to keep this secret! I don't know why I feel the obligation to keep her behaviour secret. Maybe embarrassment.

Have been NC for a week now. I don't know how I feel about it. I don't have my M on social media but my DF and sis I do. Saw a post from my DF this morning, I assume my parents,sis and her bf are going out together while I'm at home with my DS. It really does hurt.

Flying monkey has messaged today about the beautiful gift my mother sent and have I spoken to her at all

I've just ignored the message

Hi crazyhorses, it does sound a lot like your m is a narcissist, most of us are dealing with that issue. The golden child/scapegoat scenario is sadly pretty standard too. It is shitty, so sorry you have to be here.
You say you haven't had much success with counsellors, did you go to them specifically to address these family issues or for general anxiety/depression? I think maybe sometimes it can come across as the difficulties with family are a symptom of depression when actually for a lot of us the family has caused the depression. I once had one say to me quite impatiently that my getting upset over it was to going to help anything, whereas the therapist I have now says I have got to get my emotions out as I've been stuffing them down so long. She's recommended I watch lots of sad films and really cry it out.

Thats the trouble with counsellors... they want you to dwell in the pain and misery all the time, and I don't actually find that helpful. I do think my family have caused my depression. One counsellor said to me ' you seem like a Daddy's girl to me'. I was speechless. I didn't go back. I went to them because I was doing a foundation course in counselling and it was a requirement of the course. I had one counsellor who literally had me breath for a whole session - no real talking.
I am interested to find the Golden Chile/Scapegoat scenario is so common. It is just so damaging. My mother once said to me ' well, you blotted your copybook didn't you'. This in her mind explained her attitude to me.

crazyhorses yea I find golden child/scapegoat really interesting. I think in my case my sister secretly resents me and trys to stick the knife in when possible. I feel like the roles have reversed now. She's more the golden child. Which is upsetting because when I was young I was unaware this is what was happening but I was never nasty or spiteful to her. I always tried to include her in things as she didn't have many friends. Now I feel like she just want to get rid of me.

Have you seen this website crazyhorses? Apologies if I missed it being shared with you earlier in the thread
www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com

That's very interesting, thank you.

Hi just introducing myself.

I cannot believe how many others are out there like myself.

I am so so sorry that this is so long but it covers all.

I have no love for my parents. Sorry if this is going to be long but just some background.
They reared us in an environment of conflict and hate. A marriage of no love. My parents argued non stop. It was horrible. She resented him for packing in work as he was "sick" and left her with the kids and a mortgage. She had to work many jobs to make it all work. I always thought that was what made her bitter but my siblings said she was cold when they were small too. I had as much as my mother could afford but no affection . She was cold and nasty. I cannot remember a time I have ever loved her. She knows i was sexually abused as a very young child by a close family member and never did anything about it as he was only a child at them time....but never saw me through it either.

As a teen I ran and she told me never to call her mam again....so I havent. To this day she hasnt even noticed.

Theres so much more to this but it would out my identity too much i f I went into detail..

Shes a total narcissist, pure toxic. Shes a liar. Shes loud. Then when confronted shes the victim and starts bawling crying . I maintained contact for my children but they have no interest .

My father is just a total self absorbed narcissist too. Hes not nasty like her but he wears me down with how argumentative he is. Hes off the charts religious. Always fussing , always moaning, always talking about himself. Constantly talking about his ailments. Hes in hospital at them moment and I cant even go near him. Hes tormenting all the staff out there. Hes just impossible and dramatic. It wont kill him what hes in for. I have blocked his number as he was ringing several times a day just to update me on his pain and the "lovely doctors and nurses" and his bowl movements

They drain me.

They have hurt me.

They expect too much of me.

I feel now I have my husband and children, I am finally content. I know what unconditional love is. I know what affection is. It took me a long time to be so content.

My parents are elderly and suddenly very demanding my attention. I never had space in my heart for them before and I just dont know how to now. They make me cringe if they try to touch me. I dont want to talk to them. I just wish they were gone forever. I am so hurt and feel so let down by them that the only way for me to move forward is if they die. I will never be their carer. I will never be available.

How can they expect me to just turn it on. I dont feel I have any duty towards them.
Shes now leaving nasty messages to my brother who is abroad.
I just know shes sitting there alone seething about her horrible children. Shes mental.

I dont know what advice I am looking for here but it feels so good to get this all out and thank you for reading if you have gotten this far.

I guess I have made my decision regarding input with them but how do I love with it.

My motto as a parent has always been to do everything they didnt do and I hope I will never be such a burden on my children in years to come. They have no idea how f*cked up my siblings and I are emotionally because of their toxic environment.

I feel so very down and at a loss
Here are some things I have written down about my mother

The Truth

I am stepping away for the good of my health. I cannot cope with the lies and how nasty she is to me. She has drained me emtionally .

So much happened growing up that I am willing to move on from, only if she accepts what happened and takes ownership of how her actions have lead us all to be very damaged. We struggle in relationships. We struggle to display our emotions effectively which has affected us across our whole lives. We grew up in a toxic environment that she could have removed us from 30 years ago.

She is consistently inconsistent.

She has always accused me of being a monster child instead of tring to figure out why I was struggling so much.

She never checked in on me and asked me how my day went or if I needed a chat.
I see that now I have 2 teens myself.

I am not the person she wants me to be.

To her I have always been flawed.

She never commended me or encouraged me.

She never told me she loved me.

When I was 19 she told me to never call me mom again, so I havent and she hasnt even noticed.

She resents me for any success.

She even hates that I look like my fathers side of the family.

She cannot understand why I am so volatile and explosive when in reality it is ony around her that I am so crazy . So much so I dont recognise myself. It takes me hours to calm when I leave her company.

She blamed my small childrens interactions with her on how I have reared them yet she has never sat with them, played with them or ever had a chat. When they visit she stares at the TV, talks incesintly to the adult in the room and knits. She pays literally no attention to them big or small and as a result they dont even know her.

She has never asked to see them.

She constantly fat shames me and everyone around her including my son with autism.
She blamed his reataliation on the fact I was away on holiday alone for the first time since I had kids 16 years ago.
Luckily hes is vocal and expressive enough to tell me exactly what went on. He is extremely hurt after it. I am very proud that he stood up for himself. He is a gentle soul and i took all he had. For him to explode it must have been building for a while. she was extremely condecending about his reactions as it was only because of his condition.

She will never accept that every time I lashed out as a child and teen I was crying out for help emotionally. I had no one and latched onto the first person that gave me any attention always which nearly always lead to tears as I would be too clingy.

She f*cking battered me when I stood up to her and often in front of my friends.

I had no love growing up.

I never felt safe.

All she ever focused on was material things while her children were crumbling emotionally from the inside out.

She is obsessed with money

She cannot see how noise and negativity ooze from her every pore day and night.

She has no unconditional love for anyone

We are objects to her that only serve as a purpose to fulfil her needs whether it be to sit there listening to her or do something for her.
When we dont please her we are then casted aside and she plays us off against each other, comparing each one of us.

She saw the human condition of rearing a teen girl as something negative

She used me as her counsellor. I was advising her on whether to leave my father at quite a young age which was too much for a little child to comprehend

She is a text book sociopath.

Hi everyone. This place has been a godsend to me too, I can't put into words what it means. The honesty and compassion here is both refreshing and admirable.

My usually supportive OH proper peed me off at the weekend. We met up with friends and when they asked how it was going with my M (they know the history), before I could answer he quipped in with he's never heard her say the things I say she's said If I was quicker I'd have mentioned how he's not seen her since Christmas Day but I was blindsided because he normally loves to go on about how mental she is. I'm desperately trying to push what he said aside especially seeing as he'd been hinting to me for ten years that she was mad before I'd even listen. I'm sure he didn't mean it how it came out but fact is, none of you in here would be so clumsy with your words. Initially I was annoyed, although I didn't say anything, but now after processing it I think that it means such a lot to me to be believed but more so to be understood and he'll never in a million years understand.

I seem to remember other people on here or on previous threads saying that some people just don't get it. It's hard though, it makes me feel alone again. I'm trying to turn it into a positive but struggling.

The positive is this:
Some people will never ever grasp the odious emotional implications of shitty manipulative behaviour because they were lucky enough to grow up in a normal well functioning family. Lucky him. You wouldn't wish your experience on anyone else.