"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[toomuchtooold]

It's August 2017, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - Aug 2017
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Momstermash 💐 I'm so sorry you've gone through all that. I think you're doing really well as you've assessed her personality defects and can see lots of dysfunctional behaviour for what it really is. Everything you have listed about her is absolutely her issues NOT YOURS. You owe her nothing. I hope you can find the path of least resistance whatever that may be.

Nora I've had similar with DH just recently too. In the course of a row about something else (now sorted) he said he thought I'd 'changed' and become 'harder' since I'd read 'that Codependency Book'. It hurt as I had talked to him about it all and he does get that my parents were crap and the issues I have surrounding that. I think though that he feels threatened by the fact that I am better at setting boundaries now. I'm not the compliant enabler I used to be - I don't leap in and solve problems as much, or anticipate what he might want: I wait for him to make his needs known.

The whole thing has given me quite a wobble. But he is a decent bloke and I am still a reasonable, fair, kind person (I think). I hope eventually he'll get used to the new-ish me and it'll be OK? But it is scary because I thought of everyone IRL he was the one who got it.

You are right, thank goodness for Stately Homes.

Hello all, please can I come in? I wasn't sure whether to post anywhere else as it's all quite identifiable but I need to see if I'm the unreasonable one or not. I'll try and give you a potted version of everything.

I'll start with my mother. She suffered from anxiety and depression, she found parenting difficult and all I seem to remember when I was young was either being smothered and controlled or being smacked and shouted at. I quickly learned I couldn't trust my mothers unpredictable and explosive temper so I became a withdrawn and nervous child. My younger brother on the other hand was the golden child, the apple of my mothers eye.

My father was afraid of my mother, only ever wanted an easy life. A nice guy, always easygoing but allowed my mother to rule the roost. This dynamic continued as we grew up but life became really hard when I was about 10 as money got really tight due to my father losing his job and only being able to find low paid work, my mothers started drinking and her depression spiralled.

The house became hell, fights and arguments, heavy drinking, my mother was like a time bomb constantly and I became scared to come home from school most days. My father encouraged us children to keep all of this secret from the rest of the family. From the age of about 12 onwards I began to bear the brunt of my mother, my father would allow it to happen and never challenge my mother in order not to cause even more arguments. She emotionally abused me, was often violent, gaslighted me, forced me to find a part time job aged 15 and took money away from me to fund her drinking. Ocassionally she was fine though and I always tried to get her approval, quite often what I did though was never good enough. Whenever I told my father he said not to make a fuss and always keep what goes on behind closed doors, especially not to tell his parents (my GPS) as they didn't approve of my mother and then they'd be proved right that he'd made a mistake in marrying her.

As I grew older I started to stand up to my mothers treatment of me. My father would never stick up for me, always supporting my mother so not to upset her and it used to cut me like a knife, I could see he knew deep down she was the one in the wrong but he'd side with her for that easy life. Aged 17 though after another row with my mother she threw me out. I was forced to go and live with a boyfriend even though I was way too young. My father sat there and did nothing while she threw all my stuff out the front door, they told my GPS and other family that I had left of my own accord - due to my conditioning of always keeping Schtum about any upset I went along with it.

The years rolled by, my mothers drinking got worse and worse. My brother was still living at home - he never got the treatment I got. I settled down, I managed to bury all the stuff my parents did to me and we got along reasonably well but my mothers drinking got worse and worse and we always kept each other at arms length. We were never particularly close. I got closer to my father though as I felt sorry for him. I eventually married and got children, my mother became more and more dependent on alcohol and my father just became her enabler, I just withdrew from her even further until 2 years before her death I went NC, I'd just had finally realised I didn't owe her anything and I needed to concentrate on my own family.

So, 2 years ago she died. I will admit I was relieved but also my head was completely messed up. I had so much stuff to work through and get straight in my head. My father was also relieved but strangely unemotional. I understood he'd had enough too but it soon became obvious why he was so calm about it all, he started up a relationship with another woman 2 weeks after my mother died. It was someone he'd known for a while.

My brother and I were shellshocked but accepted my fathers explanation that it was just company and no more. Again, we were asked to collude and keep this a secret from my mothers family which honestly made me feel sick, it just brought back all the feelings I had from a child. The relationship of my father and this woman just ran away, just weeks later they were a couple and my father totally withdrew from my brother and I. Whenever we tried to talk to him about it he lost his temper and his attitude towards both changed completely.

We were told to mind our own business, to go away and leave him alone etc. He was completely infatuated with this woman and she encouraged the distance between him and us. She started to cause trouble between us all, little shit stirring things, lots of emotional stuff with my dad so he always felt he had to chose her over us. In the end I told my dad I'd had enough of this angst with my mother and I didn't want to put up with it all from a stranger. I told him I respected his choice but that I preferred not to have anything to do with her. He responded by telling me to get out of his life then. Quite frankly, he didn't need anyone else any more and if anyone didn't like it they could sling their hook. So me being strongly opinionated and determined not to take crap off anyone any more did. I walked away from him and concentrated on my own family.

Over the past two years since this has happened he's created a whole new life with this woman, she's moved into his house, taken over everything and completely erased any evidence of his 'past'. I did try to contact him a month or so after the walking away but by then he'd rewritten history, all I got from him was what a wonderful father he'd been and how he'd tried to do everything for us. He couldn't accept that no, I didn't think he was a good father and grandfather - he wasnt! He didn't try and protect me from anything, he used me to protect himself from my mother. So yet again I'm the scapegoat, the cause of all his problems and the trouble. My brother I should add feels the same as me and has said the same things to my father but he's not been thrown out of his life!

So I walked away, concentrated on my family but I also realised by walking away it gave me the freedom to be able to bring all the secrets out into the open. I told my grandmother (his mother) everything, all that happened as I was growing up etc, we are very close. I'm open with everyone and tell everyone how he's treated me. I don't feel I've got anything to lose.

So, fast forward to now. He's all upset now apparently as he's heard Ive been open and telling people what he's done. I don't actually care if he's upset but he's gone to his mother (my GM) and wants her to take sides with him against me as I'm in the wrong for speaking out.
If she doesn't then he wants nothing more to do with her. She's very elderly and he's prepared to do this, just so that he can say I am the reason he doesn't bother with his mother. She will not side with him as she feels he's treated me disgustingly.

Please help me get my head around this. What is he a narcissist? What makes someone scapegoat one child all the way through life and not do it to the other child? I wobble sometimes and think it must be me but no, it's not!
Sorry it's so long!

He sounds like the enabler to me. When you wrote that he took up with someone else 2 weeks after your mother's death I knew exactly that the new woman would be no different to your mother.

I wish I had some links or something - Attila is good on people like this. From my experience, enablers are weak, they like to take the lead from someone else and they like the feeling of being the good guy to the other one's bad guy. It's all highly codependent. I would imagine your father continues to treat you as the scapegoat simply because your mother did. It's like everyone has their place in the hierarchy, they can't do relationships between equals.

Your gran is awesome, by the way.

Thanks for your reply, yes my gran is awesome but she's sad and I feel responsible for that because my dad would not have threatened her with NC if it weren't for me.

He's always been the enabler, danced to my mothers every whim to the detriment of us children. Now he's doing it to us with another woman, a stranger to us. Because I wasn't willing to put up with any nonsense from her (and believe me there was a lot of it) he just dispensed with our relationship. I can see now that I was not needed anymore. My mother was gone, he had another person to lean on. I was surplus to requirements.

To some extent it doesn't matter exactly what he is. But IME I do think 50 years with a narcissist can make the partner exhibit narcissistic traits also as they have a joint reality for so long.
Better perhaps to simply focus on the thousand ways in which his behaviour is unreasonable and in no way caused by you.
Unfortunately he doesn't love or care for you (certainly not as much as you deserve) so you must not feel obligated to him either.

You're not responsible. What a dick. Sorry, but really. Making his mother choose between him and her granddaughter, his daughter. Imagine you had fabricated everything you told your gran. He's still be a dick for making her choose who to believe. But everything you've said is true. It's so easy as an adult abused child to take all the responsibility for other people's actions but there's no way. Your father could easily stay in contact with your gran. He just wants to force the issue and be able to pretend to himself that he is the good guy. You don't have to facilitate that. You have every right to an honest relationship with your gran.

Hi Blamed Again

No its not you, its your late mother and her willing enabler of a husband. It is not your fault they acted the ways they have done; you did not make them that way.

All of what you have written is very typical of life within a dysfunctional narcissistic family structure; the later part where your dad rewrites history to suit his own narrative did not surprise me one bit; that is very typical as well.

The golden child role is a role also not without price and you were made the scapegoat for all their inherent ills.

Your late mother was both a drunkard and a narcissist and your dad (he is not worthy of that term) was her hatchet man and her willing enabler. And therefore no, he was not a nice guy at all.

Women like your mother always but always need a willing enabler to help them and he fitted that bill totally. He is truly a bystander and weak. He failed you utterly as a father and failed to protect you from his wife's excesses of behaviours. He facilitated the abuse of you as children, worshipped completely at her alter and wanted you to do the same. He defended her viciously thus producing his own form of narcissistic rage. Being her sidekick he went all out to keep her happy no matter the cost to his children. He wasn’t going to help you as children. His need to feel that he’d chosen a good wife was more important than protecting his children. Which brings me back to the point that such weak men often need someone to idolise.

It also shows that he needed to believe his wife was perfect, or near it, to feel he had chosen a good wife. And so they were both caught in this dance of believing her perfect and doing all necessary to preserve that illusion.

He would rather have seen you cop it from her than he and he made sure that you were in her firing line rather than he. Such weak men often need someone like your late mother to idolise; he probably said things like, "oh do not make me unhappy with the wife I have chosen". Their love was more likely than not based on an unhealthy co-dependency.

Reading this may help you more as well:-
www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/enabling-fathers/

flyingmonkeysdenied.com/2015/12/05/enabling-henchmen-are-fathers-who-enable-narcissistic-mothers/

I would reiterate that your gran is awesome too.

Thanks for your replies, although I feel shocked reading that Attila, it feels like I exaggerated what went on as a child. I wasn't relentlessly beaten, some days were fine. I just had to walk on eggshells all the time around my mother. I do remember her being nice at times too. We had good Christmas's (although it always was a worrying time as there was drink in the house)
I just can't seem to get past the way I used to feel, the clench of anxiety in my tummy if I could see my mother had been drinking (her eyes took on a glaze even after one). i used to get so scared if they went out as they'd always return arguing. My mother would go from being all fine and happy one minute to a screaming, violent banshee within minutes and I was mostly afraid of her. She loved having that power of knowing I was scared of her. As I grew that feeling of standing up to her was heady and powerful. I used it, I used to tell my father she was in the wrong but he'd back her no matter how unreasonable she was being.
I had to grow up so quickly, my parents money worries meant we were ocassionaly at risk of losing our home. My parents would make sure we knew this, nothing was ever kept from us. The number of times I cried myself to sleep worrying we would have to move home was countless. My mother used to enjoy telling me my beloved dog would have to go.
And now, he found another woman straight away. But this one is not a drinker, just a woman that wants him and his house all to herself. So she clicked her fingers, threatened to leave him now and again if he didn't do as she wanted (get us children out of the way) and he cut us out. Simple as that.
He didn't care about my feelings at all but is embarrassed and upset that outsiders are finding out how he's treated me. All he worries about is himself and what others think of him.

Sometimes the bad stuff is so bad that it is hard to credit that it did really happen that way.
Also you will see a lot on these pages that we don't feel it was 'bad enough' or that others had it much worse. I certainly feel that. Mine was 'only' emotional abuse so I feel a fraud when others have suffered violently, sexually, financially. But it's your reality and it IS damaging. Your feelings are valid and real.

I think for most of us on here it was never all bad - it makes it very hard to recognise, because you know there were good bits, and if you're like me you probably spent half your childhood trying to figure out how to behave to make the nice mum (and dad) show up and not the horrible one. The walking on eggshells and so on. That in itself can be really damaging as you learn to be hypervigilant to others' moods and that is the start of the sort of porous ego boundaries and taking too much care of others' feelings so you don't notice your own any more - the start of codependency essentially.

The other thing to say is that for our parents, I suspect that the good times we had were to do with them wanting to appear to be a good parent. Like Christmas presents - I usually did extremely well for Christmas presents, I think because there was an element of competition between my mother and my aunties. But my birthday was not often celebrated - no parties, and some years no present. We were usually away on holiday, and it was like there was no point making an effort if nobody saw it.

❤️

Hi BA

What fc and toomuchtooold wrote as well.

re your comment:-

"I wasn't relentlessly beaten, some days were fine. I just had to walk on eggshells all the time around my mother. I do remember her being nice at times too"

There have been many versions of the above along the lines of it was not that bad. But its your reality and this did happen to you. It was not just bad, it was absolutely appalling. You do not "just" have to be relentlessly beaten to be abused. I am sorry that this abuse remained hidden and no-one thought it necessary to remove the two of you from this evil pairing.

From the initial post at the start of all the Stately Homes threads:-

"One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth".

You did not have to be relentlessly beaten for them to mistreat you and some days were indeed "ok", well more bearable than others. Walking on eggshells is code to my mind for living in fear. Abusive people like your late mother and your enabler of a dad could be "nice" sometimes but the nice/nasty cycle associated with such types is a continuous one. You as children were faced constantly with the threat of violence (beneath the surface but ever present), your mother frightening you by saying you could lose your dog, homelessness, drunkenness from your mother, being made your mother's confidant and parental rowing.

Your feelings are indeed valid and real here. You are a survivor of those evil days and you have two qualities your late mother and her enabler of a H completely lack; empathy and insight.

Your dad has not changed one iota since your childhood either. Again it was not your fault they are like this, you did not make them this way.

What an awful story. My feeling is that you should continue to be honest with your grandmother and see her regularly, but that the two of you should not pass on what you say to your father. if I were you, i would not see my father again. Leave him to his own mess. Continue to be honest about the situation to others, but ask them not to pass on your comments to your father.

It's really hard, but the best thing you can do is try to focus on your own life and leave your father to ruin his.

Thanks, its hard not to read back what I wrote and feel like I'm blowing it up out of all proportion. We had clothes, food, not the best of everything but fundamentally I think parents though they were giving us everything but now that I have children of my own I can't imagine treating them the way I was treated.

One of the things both my parents have always said to me was 'after everything we've done for you'. Because they struggled with money they seemed to think they were martyrs and that we should be grateful for everything we got. Yes, I am grateful, we didn't ever get starved and I always had everything I needed for school etc but then why didnt they see that none of that mattered when the slaps came, the nasty, vicious things were said or that fact I spent most of my time with a knot of anxiety inside me.

Its funny, I had a conversation with DH last night (who came from a normal, loving home) and I spilt loads more about my upbringing, about the fear, the anxiety my mother could induce in me, about the fact I couldnt tell anyone what was going on and I couldnt rely on my father to stop it. He said 'okay, now try and list all the nice things they did for you'. I said

1, they fed me and gave me a roof over my head (until 17 then I was kicked out)
2, they bought me my first car
3, we had nice stuff for Christmas and they tried their best (but always told us how much they had to scrimp and save to pay for things)
4, they looked after our DS now and again when he was small (on their terms though)

DH said - well, when I think of MY parents I think of warmth, happiness, freedom to express myself without the fear of being belittled or shouted at, not being frightened (he says it just wasnt an emotion he ever felt around his parents) and it all clicked into place for me.

I look back and cant feel any of that. DH says its THEM in the wrong not me. They didn't give me the upbringing I deserved. Just because they did things off teh list I made above doesnt make them great parents. Sorry, this is almost like a revelation and now Ive opened the mental box its all coming out and making sense. So sorry to keep writing this here, Im hoping I can keep reading it back when I wobble and remember some good times and think Im blowing it out of all proportion.

Yes when you feel you are going crazy focus on what is missing, what they don't do, what they never said. Then you realise you're not crazy x

By complaining and bringing it out into the open though I'm scared i'm turning into my father who makes everything about himself. I'm now the one crying 'look at me, I've been wronged, no one cares, its all your fault, it wasn't me' etc.

Blamed I've not been here long and feel exactly the same. Like I'm exaggerating when I write on here. My mum loves me deeply and fiercely I'm sure and I'm lucky to have had that where others didn't... but lots of scary and traumatic things happened too and my latest revelation is that I spent a lot of childhood not feeling safe. I didn't fear physical harm from my mother but our surroundings were often scary. I still feel fraudulent however.

I know what you mean that you have these revelations and then need to keep talking about them because it's so bizarre to suddenly view huge chunks of your life differently. Like everything coming into focus. I am still finding it really quite upsetting and anxiety provoking and try not to think about it too often though I had a good 2 or 3 weeks where it was all I could think about.

You are also not becoming like your dad. Part of this process is reflecting and processing and you need to talk about that to do it. You are choosing good places to do that - here, with your partner etc. You're not complaining, it needs to come out.

I find I often recount instances from my childhood and ask DP (who is from a loving, stable background) if they are normal. I know in my heart they are not but it's like I need to say it out loud and have outside confirmation. To be honest I often want to post on here descriptions of events just to have people's thoughts.... things were so often minimised in my childhood and it's like I want validation that some of it was actually deeply shit. But that would feel hugely attention seeking so I don't usually but they do sneak in. I once laughingly told a therapist an anecdote from my childhood and he was horrified but I had made it into a bit of joke for so long it was strange and he almost had to explain why it was actually awful.

Anyway my point is, post away on here, process it all - you're in the right place. To acknowledge the harm caused is not to make it all about you - in fact that feeling has been conditioned in you because you couldn't ever say how wrong things were at home. You were too scared to and made to feel your parents problems were bigger.

Perhaps look at
www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com

Also this article may be useful www.womboflight.com/embrace-accountability-for-meaningful-change/

BA

"By complaining and bringing it out into the open though I'm scared i'm turning into my father who makes everything about himself. I'm now the one crying 'look at me, I've been wronged, no one cares, its all your fault, it wasn't me' etc".

No you are not doing that at all, really you are not. You remain the daughter of a narcissistic mother and her willing enabler and are still floundering about trying to find your own sense of self worth. You will get there. This pandoras box that has been nailed shut needs to be fully opened now.

A comment you wrote earlier (One of the things both my parents have always said to me was 'after everything we've done for you'. Because they struggled with money they seemed to think they were martyrs and that we should be grateful for everything we got) made me think of this from the introductory post on the Stately Homes thread:-

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

"Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation".

DH said - well, when I think of MY parents I think of warmth, happiness, freedom to express myself without the fear of being belittled or shouted at, not being frightened (he says it just wasnt an emotion he ever felt around his parents) and it all clicked into place for me.

Re what your DH said:-

"DH says its THEM in the wrong not me. They didn't give me the upbringing I deserved".

He is correct. I am glad to read that your DH is supportive and on your side. His support going forward will continue to be invaluable to you.

Hello all, I hope it's ok to join?

Saddened by the stories here, but it is also heartening to see people who are rising about this ridiculous behaviour.

I think that my family is not just dysfunctional, it's dysfunctional-plus. If they could sit an exam in it they'd pass with an A*.

What is also extra confusing (and I know there are many on here that struggle with this) is the huge difference between who they present on the outside, and who the actually are.

On the surface, educated, successful couple - working class made very good. Older son, younger daughter. Beautiful home etc

Reality:

Narc mother, alcoholic father. Massive amounts of golden child/scapegoat stuff going on.

Son with mental health issues and extreme antisocial traits - battered and sexually assaulted younger sister (me) for years.

Parents raging and committed long-term swingers. Family holidays always taken with other families and consisted of wearing the kids out on the beach in the day then swapping partners in caravans, holiday apartments etc with kids around and ridiculous amounts of alcohol at play.

No discipline or suppor for sons behavioural (and later mental health) issues. Very much a look the other way approach to everything.

I've recently spelled out to my parents EXACTLY what my childhood was like and how I feel their lack of parenting contributing to my trauma.

They are sticking with story A - successful, normal middle class family with no skeletons in their closets

Where I go next, I do not know. I asked them not to contact me, as I'm in therapy for PTSD (from my brother's abuse) and they contacted me three times in 2 months - the last time saying they are distraught at my failure to respond to their efforts to contact me

Their emails now go into a separate folder and I've blocked their phone numbers. But honestly. HOW are they not getting it?

MrsASoprano

Its because such disordered of thinking people have no concept of other people having boundaries; they truly see you as an extension of them. They have poor boundaries themselves and they like to win and maintain power.

You are doing the right things here re therapy and blocking their means of communication. I would actually consider deleting their e-mails without opening them.

Thank you, Attila.

I honestly feel as though this process has been like leaving a cult. There was so much gaslighting going on it has taken me years and years to piece it all together.

Hi everyone...I'm sorry, I haven't read all the recent posts...just feel like I need a bit of a handhold.

I have been feeling really low for the past few days and I am struggling massively with having no contact, I think secretly I had been hoping all this time that my parents would pick up the phone and call me or write to me, and say they are sorry for the way they treated me. Or even say they are sorry about my miscarriage (although that happened almost two years ago).

When I am feeling really worthless and anxious I feel like picking up the phone and making the first step...but then I remember all the times I have done so in the past and how it ultimately doesn't get me anywhere.

I am grateful for my husband; he is very supportive and my best friend. But I feel lonely and sad all the time.

I have no friends here, nobody apart from my husband's family. I haven't worked since we left Germany in 2014 and I haven't driven since either. My husband has tried to get me behind the wheel again, but I just have no confidence.

Sorry, I realise that sounds like I sit here all day feeling sorry for myself, but it's not like that. I am just hurting so much and feeling so crap all the time and I don't want to anymore.

Thanks for listening.

sunflower

((((((((((((((sunflower)))))))))))))))

Sorry to read you are feeling so low at present; this may well be a further manifestation of your fear, obligation and guilt re your abusive parents.

Unfortunately you know as well as I do that your toxic parents are never going to apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions. Such disordered of thinking people really do not do that. Its NOT your fault they are like this, they took the easy route out and thus used you as a conduit for all their inherent ills.

Are you still under the care of a therapist; if so I would make an appointment to see this person asap. You need to talk to someone ideally with knowledge of narcissistic family structures because you certainly grew up in one of those.

It took me a long time to get behind the wheel of a car again (only got my full licence in my late 20s) due to lack of confidence in my own ability amongst other things (my early 20s was indeed a dark place to inhabit) but I would urge you to try and find an understanding driving instructor with lots of patience. Such people really do exist and the right instructor will really help you.

Hope this message has helped you a little bit.

Hello all. It's my first time posting on Stately Homes, long-time lurker.

I need a bit of a hand hold, as today I sent my possibly narcissistic DM letter explaining how I feel about her recent behaviour towards me. I've had her blocked for a couple of days while I composed myself, but tomorrow the letter will arrive, and I'm going to unblock my phone. I'm a bit scared of what will follow.

Background: DM was always very aggressive towards DF, bullying him right up until his death earlier this year. She picked fights constantly throughout my childhood - always shouting, occasionally violent: once, she smashed a bottle over his head. She was loud, and ruled the roost. Things in our home were 'hers' never 'ours'. They separated a few years ago, but she kept picking at him and dominating every family occasion (she wouldn't countenance them seeing me and my sister separately) so I would sometimes go away feeling as if I hadn't seen DF at all.

Since his sudden death. it's like the past never happened - she even called herself the grieving widow. I've been seeing a bereavement therapist and was shocked to find myself talking about her, not him. It's brought up a lot of past memories - stuff I've just 'let go'. But I can't let this go.

Basically, she said she'd store all Dad's things in her garage until Dsis and I are ready to go through it. But this week she told me she'd been through it herself and thrown a binful of 'junk' away. Some of which I specifically wanted (she didn't know this, admittedly). I didn't shout, but I wasn't happy, and told her so. She flipped, shouted over me, called me 'ungrateful', said I was 'weird' for wanting to keep that particular thing, and slammed the phone down. It's not the first time she's thrown my things away and been angry at my 'ungratefulness', but this is a line in the sand for me. I can't tell myself this is normal behaviour for a mother towards her grieving daughter.

So I've written to her, explaining just that, and how she's made me feel. I'm going to unblock my phone in the morning so she can call me if she wants to. But I'm absolutely dreading it. Ive never confronted her before - it's always easier to go along to get along. And if she doesn't apologise I don't know what to do or how to feel.

Sorry - that was very long indeed.