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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

976 replies

toomuchtooold · 28/05/2017 10:28

It's May 2017, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 02/06/2017 17:37

Poudrenez

I would cancel Sunday's visit citing D and V or something like that. You do not have to see her enabler that is your Dad and the abuser that is his wife. No-one deserves to be strangled like you were at her hands, people get prison sentences for that. Was your Dad ever made aware that she did this or did you think you would not be believed.

How does your brother get on with them these days, does he have any sort of relationship with either?

I am sorry to read he now has dementia but the fact is that during his younger years he did fail to protect you from his wife's excesses of behaviours. He put her above you both and you both paid a heavy price. It also seems that your brother and you have also been airbrushed out of their home because you and he were his "first family". Unfortunately he never asserted himself here and just let her get on with it out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. He was happy to let you take her flack so that he did not; he is really a weak bystander of a man.

TreacleChin · 02/06/2017 17:43

Poudrenez I got the shudders just reading that. She sounds like a baddy from a Disney movie with all that nice yet snide stuff.

I can relate to being super nice, it's like overcompensating but for someone else's terrible behaviour rather than your own, it's totally irrational yet once you enter that cycle I do know it's hard to stop. Do you thing you could just stop? Maybe use the elastic band trick and flick yourself when you catch yourself doing it, or get your OH to cough. If you seem 'out of sorts' you do have the reason that you're concerned about your dad. I think it time you put yourself first, dealing with other people's emotionals is draining especially if you're preempting them, that's double draining. You're the one with the poorly father, its you that should have some love and empathy, it's not your job to fix her.

ChestOfDrawers · 02/06/2017 21:46

Treacle your bit about - if you don't want me or don't know if you want me I won't keep making myself available to you - this has really struck home with me and I will be thinking about this. It's really appropriate to my situation right now. Thank you.

BadTasteFlump · 02/06/2017 23:01

Hi everyone. Just wanted to update on what's been going on with me...

My sister called a few days ago and arranged to see me today. I decided before she came that I wasn't going to bring up the subject of our M - just because she still sees her and I dont want her feel that I'm putting her in the middle, and also because I want us to build a relationship completely separate from our M - something we've never had.

So anyway, we had a nice day, chatting about general stuff. But then after a while she started talking about our M - she did seem like she needed to get some things off her chest - like telling me that she has been refusing to talk about our argument and our M has given up trying - but also that the last time our M brought the subject up, she said she wants the family photos back that I took so she can dump them all, 'because of all the trouble they've caused' Shock

I seriously think she's lost it. My sister said she seems to be constantly on the edge of going into a rage, and she feels like she's pissing our M off all the time and doesn't even know why... I just said 'well welcome to my life for the last fuck knows how many years!'

Anyway, I do feel sorry for my Dsis, she seems really confused/stuck in the middle of it all. But I can't do anything about that. I think she knows 100% what our M is like, but also feels guilty about her being on her own when she's not seeing her.

Whereas I seem to have undergone some kind of personality transplant, and have gone from constantly worrying about our M and whether she is or isn't happy, to genuinely not giving a shit, even if I try to. All I give a shit about now is the effect she may be having on the people I do care about. And I do feel really, really angry about all the times she got away with treating me - and others - badly over the years.

And one other thing, she is never getting those photos back. She really is batshit mental.

BadTasteFlump · 02/06/2017 23:05

Btw - is this a thing? Just lately I have felt sooooo angry with her, like it takes my breath away. I don't think I've ever felt anger like that before. I've been lots of things over the years, moody, anxious, grumpy, but I've never felt like I could explode with anger before, like it's a physical thing. Has anybody else had that?

BadTasteFlump · 02/06/2017 23:23

God I'm sorry that was a bit of a brain dump wasnt it.... Am going to catch up with the thread now.

ChestOfDrawers · 03/06/2017 00:22

I have had a bit of a eye-opener of a day. You might remember I posted about my sibling and whether I should say something about them not going back to live with parents. I see this sibling as a fellow victim and I constantly excuse their behaviour. We have had periods of having a good relationship so I always think it's good based on that.

On reflection it's not good at all. On reflection sibling has been a dick to me for months, freezing me out for weeks at a time, sitting there while I put all the effort in. Sibling's oh puts in all the energy. To be honest I think their relationship is pretty dysfunctional. I think sibling is emotionally abusive to partner. I think sibling is emotionally abusive to me too. Amongst other things they do a lot of silent treatment which I find triggering.

Sibling was a dick today in a number of ways and it opened my eyes. Me and dp are so fed up with sibling's behaviour. I have wasted so much care and energy on sibling.

It is hard to let go of this sibling. But I realise I need to stop trying as it just is wasted and not wanted.

My dilemma now is whether I do or say anything to sibling's oh. They are young and oh doesn't have much if any support (emotionally abusive father, history of abusive relationships - so probably won't spot it themselves).

I feel really upset.

Oh and flump yy to the anger. Weird and unfamiliar but I suppose about time :D

TreacleChin · 03/06/2017 08:28

My sister said she seems to be constantly on the edge of going into a rage, and she feels like she's pissing our M off all the time and doesn't even know why...

Flump This is how my M started being with me, it was after a few of these experiences that I told my OH and he said she's always been like that, and he wasn't kidding me, he was deadly serious. Turns out I have been spending goodness knows how many years 'jeering her up' and not even noticing i've been doing it. I initially felt violated although now (weeks later) am feeling mostly indifferent. I can't think of what else to call it. I know you say you can't do anything about it but you can/are and will be there for your sister.

I also experienced anger, real anger, it was the day of the night before my meltdown. I've not felt it since.

Chest your experience of being with your sibling and their OH sounds like when I meet up with my parents. It's draining making all the effort while you're met with silence. I don't know about you but I have started to directly associate being given the silent treatment with being pushed away and lately i'm no longer doing all the running to appease. Thing is, when I pulled back my dad did notice and that's when we exchanged a 'look'. That look told me that we were both totally aware. I didn't feel like I needed to do or say any more, it was enough.

I can totally understand your upset, and maybe you feel like it's your job to fix everything (including your sibling's OH) but remember what people say about being given roles. I am personally investing time in finding out who I really am, i've quit my role, just seeing it as serving my notice until I find my real calling.

Flowers for everyone x

AttilaTheMeerkat · 03/06/2017 08:35

"My dilemma now is whether I do or say anything to sibling's oh. They are young and oh doesn't have much if any support (emotionally abusive father, history of abusive relationships - so probably won't spot it themselves)".

No because that person could well shoot you as the messenger instead. Its not your job here to fix everything.

Your sibling is emotionally abusive and silent treatment itself is never about being silence; its about power and control.

Golondrina · 03/06/2017 08:50

Yes, I understand the rage. Still feel it after three years NC, but less often.

SpareBedroom · 03/06/2017 09:15

Flump yes to the anger. Being on here helps because it helps me stop going down the old route of feeling guilty about it or burying it.

Also yes to the DSis who can see the madness but feels too guilty to extricate herself. It's hard, isn't it.

And another yes to the batshit M who is blaming the unlikeliest things (in your case the photos) for how her world is changing. In my M's case (can't go into details) she recently managed to blame a relative's serious mental health issues (she can't cope with stuff like that because she lives in a kind of Polyanna Universe with herself at the centre of a perfect family) on a musical instrument. It sounds even crazier writing it down. That one was so mad I couldn't believe that at one stage in the past I would have bent myself into knots trying to rationalise why she thought that. Now I just think 'she's nuts' and move on.

Treacle I love the idea of serving notice. I'm going to keep remembering that one.

Makealist1 · 03/06/2017 09:23

Hi chest and flump*

It's really great to read your posts . You're both very good on explaining your ongoing feelings in detail and working through stuff as it happens.

I also feel the anger. i was never even allowed to look at my DM in the wrong way. ' don't you look at me like that !'. So I internalised my anger. Put on a poker face and hid. Ultimately I didn't even feel justifiable anger, really. On the odd occasions I did [ still do?] I couldn't hang on to it and it would take a BIG event to trigger it, [ sulking, silence,moaning etc - like your Dsis ?]

Now I feel any underlying simmer whenever I think of - not only my DM [ bigger anger there] but also a proportion of my [ big, 7 children] family. At Xmas I was posting that my real fear would be to lose them - but the more I thought about it , the more I realised that some have ignored/ belittled and isolated me as well - long term. I realise that some are replicating my mother's behavior towards me [ i think they call this ' having fleas ?'] - but at least 2 may be full on narcs as well ? I really think so. And of course I have to take responsibility in this, because my withdrawing to a safer space and not standing up for myself didn't buck the trend. Have become quite objective now .

I was so focussed on my mother - and enabling and increasingly weird father - that I didn't analyse how badly they treat me . Especially as a major family trait is to aggressively excuse bad behaviour ' I can't help it, it's just the way I am ' or to pull the poor me card ' I can't help it, I'm ......'

I'm lucky really because I haven't picked up this flea - no point in looking for support from people who don't even see you ? Just waited passively when tragedy struck, hoping - nah . The most I got from Dm was to complain that I lived so far away and a quote ' Oh well, they say that every cloud has a silver lining'. Which actually I took on board - and it's true. If I hadn't been invisible , I may have been spared some pain but I'd also be stuck in the dysfunctional shit storm with the rest of them. And they are mad Confused

So now I'm not bovvered. I will talk to the few I want to. The others don't contact me anyway. Feels like FREEDOM to me. Why chase people who aren't interested in you anyway ?

I read a good quote recently - apparently borrowed from Einstein .

Insanity is when you keep on repeating the same behaviours over and over expecting that some time the result will be different

I've had 60+ years of doing that. Can't believe it.What a bloody waste !

Slowtrain2dawn · 03/06/2017 09:31

badtasteflump The interaction with your Dsis is really interesting as I have been in her position of trying to keep the relationship with my mum and my sister separate. What has happened is that this changes the dynamic and I become the bad guy, sounds like your sister is experiencing this. It's Karpmans triangle. My mum always has to be the victim!

TreacleChin · 03/06/2017 09:43

You're bang on again Atilla, it is about the control Shock

I'm sat thinking that without all of yous on here I'd be in a right mess by now. My lowering contact was initially not by choice, it was due to work commitments and my son coming home from uni, I tried and tried to find a way round everything in order to please her but I couldn't. Fact is, my M would be acting like this whether I was aware of what she is or not, the only difference is I'm not sat here wondering and dwelling on what on earth I've done wrong and how I can fix it.

My OH thinks I should stop seeing her, he says I get nothing out of it whatsoever. It's been three times now that she's not seen me for a full week yet has nothing to say, not even an ask how I am or how anyone else is, it's not normal. It's more like pre-planned punishment. And you're right, it's about control. I'm thinking that was what the cutting short the meet was all about too, she couldn't get her coat on quick enough. Jeez. Well, I actually feel okay so she's wasted her time.

SpareBedroom · 03/06/2017 10:11

Treacle my LC was initially kind of accidental too. My M lives 100 miles away so that limits things just through distance anyway, but about a year ago I had this vague feeling that to her my family were just a source of things to boast about to her friends - I suppose now I'd call it narcissistic supply but I didn't know that word then. I wanted a more equal relationship where I didn't always feel like a child (I think an impending 'big' birthday for me got me thinking that I didn't want to be that child any more). So I decided to stop doing all the running in our relationship (I was always the one suggesting we went to see her or she came to us) and see what happened. And the answer was - nothing! After a few months she moaned to DSis that she hadn't seen her granddaughter for ages (our DD) but no mention of not having seen me or OH. My DSis said to her 'Have you invited them?' and she did invite us after that - once - but it was a very 'closed' invitation i.e. 'Can you come on such and such a date at such and such a time' rather than the open-ended type ('Would you like to come and visit? When would suit you?') that I'd have done to her, and as it turned out we genuinely weren't free at that very specific time so we couldn't go. And that's been it for us going there other than a big family occasion at Christmas.

I was initially upset, and for a while I was tempted to re-instigate how I used to behave, but now I think I feel like I've been given an unexpected holiday. It actually feels liberating. I've decided to invite her here about twice a year (not staying overnight) and that's it. I ring her roughly a week after she's last rung me and then I think 'It's her turn to ring me now' and I wait. Sometimes it's weeks before I hear from her again.

The whole thing has made me realise that yes, we were a source of narcissistic supply. She doesn't genuinely love us enough to make the effort.

Slowtrain yes, as you said, I think this is now forcing my DSis into a new role. My instinct is to step in to protect her, but that's partly how our M controls us - she banks on me protecting DSis to bring everything back into line. I can't fix things for DSis. I have to let her work it out for herself.

TreacleChin · 03/06/2017 10:11

Hi List xx Yes to the feeling freedom. I love that. I only discovered yesterday that not giving energy and emotions to people who arnt fussed/dont care/ dislike you etc etc is actually okay, and it's what well balanced people do every single day.

TreacleChin · 03/06/2017 10:23

Gosh Spare, that must have been really eye opening. I can understand why you were initially upset too. I'm glad you've got your boundaries in place, I think that's a huge and important step. I'm still trying to suss out what mine are lol.

Thank goodness for Stately Homes, it's a fabulous place of solace and support.

BadTasteFlump · 03/06/2017 10:57

slow that Karpman's triangle thing is really interesting - I'd not seen that before. I suppose the only way I can 'rescue' my sister from nos being the one on the receiving end of our M's anger is to go back to getting it myself, but that's not going to happen. Apparently our M has started 'trying to be nicer' to our cousin, who our M has a very on/off relationship with - so she's putting her in position of 'rescuer' maybe?

Our cousin is a good person who has been through a terrible few years so is quite fragile emotionally - her v young DD died tragically a few years ago. When it all happened I had a few months of intensely hating my M - because she was making somebody else's tragedy all about her - yes even something as terrible as the death of a child Sad. When it happened I disagreed with my M about something minor a few days later - my mum got angry and said 'I've just lost a little girl!... At the time I remember thinking 'you absolute fucking bitch - even that has to be about you'. But then somewhere along the line it was all forgotten and I went back to pandering to her for a few more years... Why???

Also on the day of the little girl's funeral, my M turned up at the wake and announced that somebody had tried to touch her up on the way there when she had stopped at a shop! She went on and on about it and how terrible it was, and got angry that my cousin's DH (the deceased's dad!!) didn't seem to care or want to do anything about it....

Anyway, sorry, more brain dumps.

Make I love that quote too! I feel like I want it written down somewhere I can see it at all times! And thanks for your comments - it's good to know I'm making sense and not just randomly waffling!

And it's interesting that others are feeling the anger too - I am determined not to bury it - it is motivating me to do more exercise atm so that must be a good thing!

TreacleChin · 03/06/2017 17:42

That's awful behaviour from your M Flump, terrible. It really is like they have no self awareness or even awareness of what is or isn't appropriate. I'm beginning to think that this is why they need enablers and caretakers, because those people can be relied on to make excuses for them and shoo any pointy fingers away.

I think one of the worst things about discovering people close to you have NPD is looking back at realising all the inappropriate times they made it all about them. Mine has done it countless times but the one I can't seem to shake off was when it was my son's 21st. It doesn't even sound that bad but now I know what she is it makes me furious. What happened was, my son didn't want a fuss or a party because he was in the middle of sitting his exams so me & OH had arranged to drive down to see him and take him out for a posh meal local to where he lived. I'd invited my parents but M wanted her being there to be a 'surprise' so we were instructed not to tell him and to pretend it was just going to be the three of us. When we got to the restaurant she was already there, it was very much Surprise! I'm here! You'd have thought she was the surprise guest flown from across the world on This is your Life, not his gran from 30 miles away Hmm I sound like such a bitch but it was his day and she just had to have a slice of the attention.

About the anger, I have no idea what to do with mine. When I felt it last week I just repeated I feel soooooo angry. I didn't bury it but I didn't know what to do with it except grunt and chunner and pace Grin Blush

BadTasteFlump · 03/06/2017 18:06

I like 'chunner' - don't know what it means tho Grin

I think as long as you let the anger come out and don't try to suppress it, it's all good...

I can absolutely relate to the 'surprise' birthday guest story, that would be my M all over. We had a house warming party for our friends - and had to invite my M obviously... - and she went around the room telling everybody about her latest terrible aches and pains. After a while she decided to sit down on the floor pretty much in the middle of everybody (who were all on chairs) and then made a big show of not being able to get up again, and had to be helped by four or so people, and then kept falling back down so they kept having to help her again. At some point she also turned into Barbara Windsor and started giggling embarrassing innuendos whilst she was on the floor. Oh my god I was so embarrassed I wen and stood outside because otherwise I would have wanted to slap her.

Doesn't sound like much now, but that pretty much sums up any party she was at - she would be too loud, inappropriate and embarrassing, and sooooo funny. But afterwards she would slag everybody off and talk about how much she couldn't stand any of them.

BadTasteFlump · 03/06/2017 18:17

Is it a general thing that narcissists are incredibly vain? My M's ego is ridiculously fragile, but she has gone through her life assuming any man with a pulse is gagging for it with her. It is actually making me feel sick to write that.

She has always dyed her brown hair peroxide blonde, but has never admitted it. When I was little I would see the boxes of bleach and smell this horrible smell coming from the locked bathroom, but she would never let anybody see her bleaching her hair. As I got older and would dye mine all different random colours, I would try to have conversations with her about hair colours and she would completely fly off the handle and freak out, saying that she's never 'changed the colour of her hair, she's just making it the colour it should be; there's pictures of her when she was little that prove she's a real blonde... Etc etc'. It was weird how much she would over-react.

Anyway now she's knocking 80 and apparently is still a natural blonde Hmm

Makealist1 · 03/06/2017 18:28

Hi flump
We too had a death in the family. Totally tragic loss. My M had a fall - and so even before the funeral it was all about her. That was when I truly realised that this wasn't just a childish selfish woman acting out but that there was something pathologically wrong. and worse that most family rushed to support HER. How twisted was that ? Even when she cried over her 'loss' it felt like she was looking for sympathy. Makes me feel like puking even to admit this.

Makealist1 · 03/06/2017 18:30

I'm going to take time to read about Karpman's triangle. this is the joy of this forum - every bit of info another piece in the jigsaw puzzle

TreacleChin · 03/06/2017 18:53

I don't know if my mum's vain, she was always very naturally beautiful and looked much younger than she was right up to being in her 50's but now the sourness has taken over her face, she looks haggered and miserable and it's not helped by the fact that she never smiles. I do know she never suited make up, she used to look ridiculous and she knew it so pretty much gave up trying. True fact though, she used the same face powder, blue eyeshadow and pink lipstick for about 20 years, not just the same shade but the same one.

She did used to go OTT when people would say she didn't look as old as she was or didn't look old enough to have a child my age, in fact, the only time I recall her smiling as in really smiling is when she's been complimented so maybe she is vain. These past maybe 5 years or so I've been aware that she's been, not fishing for compliments, more being a martyr about not getting any. I of course then went on to find things to compliment her about but tbh, I never got the reaction from her that she claimed complimenting would give her. I meant the compliments but I'm thinking she didn't value my opinion, she probably knew I was a sap Hmm

coconutcattery · 03/06/2017 19:16

Hey, hope no one minds me posting here, I was recommended this thread after posting mine about my DM's behaviour.. she is (was?) an alcoholic, emotionally abusive (occasionally physical) growing up. Reading so far already upsetting, with the "it never happened" claim, one my mum has used many times when we fought years ago when I still lived at home.

Not to veer off topic, but about 2 weeks ago my ex DP cheated on me, so obviously last few weeks have been very tough on me. Next week we were supposed to be going on holiday with my DM, she doesn't have anyone else to go with really and exDP is very easy to get along with, so it would've been fine us three. She doesn't act out in front of other people so I wasn't worried about that. I met up with her today and she was nice at first, seemed excited for the holiday, offering to take us shopping, I spotted ex DP in the crowds and it knocked me a bit, I pointed out he'd seen us and she got really angry saying I should have pointed him out so she could have a go at him. She has repeatedly said how everything is 'ruined' and the holiday is so stressful and it's all ruined (tbh, as angry as she is at him, she loved DP and last time I saw her she was much happier chatting to him than me, so I think she's secretly a bit upset he isn't coming, he is a dickhead obviously but a very charming guy).
She then made a lot of complaints about having "lost a lot of money" which is bizarre as she hasn't actually lost anything, I paid for myself, DP paid for himself, he's the only one that's lost out. She then started to make sarcastic comments to me like "do you even WANT to go with me?" "why are you not excited, is this not enough for you?" and then the "oh and now you're getting upset because everything is my fault isn't it, I'm such a horrible/awful mother" starts... I kept trying to placate it and say I was just upset about what'd happened and not to make it about herself as it was nothing to do with her or the holiday, I just felt a bit low after seeing the ex, the whole situation was a bit overwhelming. By this point she was already pretty riled up and carried on with the "you all (as in me and my siblings) treat me like shit and I'm having no more of it". I tried really hard to stop it and say the right thing but honestly everything I say at those points is wrong. Once it starts it's pretty impossible to stop, I've 'ruined' another day of hers, I've 'ruined' our holiday.
We sat in a Costa and she was just laying into me, I'm obviously in a fairly fragile place so I was trying hard not to cry, she then made a comment about how I needed to sort out my moving house very soon and if I want sister's DP to help me move I need to sort it out immediately, I said don't worry about it as I've already sorted it myself - then looked at me as if I'd slapped her and said not to be so condescending and how dare I speak to her like that.
What I struggle to deal with is the absolute venom and hatred in her face and voice when she speaks to me. It strikes a chord now, it's painfully reminiscent of how trapped and sad I was growing up, and just breaks me every time she starts with it. I get upset and then the "oh and now you're upset because everything's MY fault as usual" comments start and they go on to me being pathetic/why am I like this. And then there's no stopping any of it.

I don't know what to do now. She obviously is not always like this, but I walk on eggshells and have to appear outwardly 'happy' 24/7 otherwise she starts to get visibly pissed off, and snipey comments start to appear. I have just lost my DP, I'm devastated, I'm in shock, I can't hold it together for a week with just her there and I can't deal with it if she's going to be like this. I thought about sending a text saying I will still come if she doesn't speak to me like that for the duration of the holiday, but she doesn't even recognise what she's doing as wrong so I don't think there's any point in that. The sad thing is I really want to go and I really want to make it work but she never changes, this side always comes about somehow. I've tried so hard but every time it's always my fault and I'm so tired and sick of it. What do I do?! :(