user1499118954
"Similarly you deliberately avoided answering my question. I did not ask about the moral/health value (or otherwise) of seeing prostitutes but womens' support for liberal feminism which affirms the right of females to sell their body to the men willing to pay for it. How else would the women who choose sex work as a career option support themselves were it not for the patronage provided by other womens' boyfriends or husbands?"
I didn’t deliberately avoid answering anything; your views are so twisted and mixed up I barely know where to begin addressing them. Also I thought you were referring to the general right of people to have sex as/when they want to without judgement; not specifically to people prostituting themselves.
To answer this ^
A. You assume all women or a significant proportion of women are liberal feminists – you can’t know that.
B. There are many shades of opinion within feminism – it is not a single, united idealogy – and one wouldn’t expect it to be. You lack understanding of that when you ascribe views on prostitution to all ‘feminists’ or ‘liberal feminists’.
C. If one does support the right of someone to sell sexual services – that does not mean that you accept the ‘right’ of people who have entered into committed, monogamous relationships to use those services. They have agreed to sexual exclusivity. Those services may be available; that does not mean that someone has to use them .. everyone has a choice, every has personal responsibility. That applies to cheating in exclusive relationships with both sex workers and ‘civilians’.
I have massive reservations about prostitution due to issues like drug addiction, exploitation and past sexual abuse ….(it is no coincidence that those beautiful young women murdered in Ipswich while working as prostitutes were drug addicts). However, if a non-exploited, non-addict person of sound mind wants to sell sexual services, I do not believe I have the right to try to stop them.
That does not mean however that I do not have the right to expect my partner not to use prostitutes while in a monogamous relationship with me; and likewise (since you seem to have such trouble turning it around and seeing it as anything other than a men using prostitutes v’s women issue) my partner has the right to expect me not to use male escorts who offer sexual services.
I cannot control who uses prostitutes – that is up to that individual. They don’t have to do it. They know what they’re doing. If someone in a monogamous relationship uses prostitutes they know they are betraying & deceiving their partner, they know they’re acting morally reprehensively, they know they’re breaking the rules they agreed upon in the relationship .. and they can expect to lose the relationship if/when found out.
(Also, believe or not, there are actually some single men in the world who may use prostitutes).
Would you like me to explain other self-evident things that any normally adjusted person would not need explained?
Your other post;
“My comments:
a/ I do not stigmatise sex workers and neither do most men. It is mainly jealous/hurt family-minded females who do - which goes to the heart of my question which you again failed to answer :-)
I did not state that you stigmatise prostitutes .. if you did you would be the biggest hypocrite walking the earth .. since you are a user of prostitutes.
You cannot speak for “most men”; you simply don’t know. I have seen many accounts of men on forums who have used prostitutes but would never ever consider entering into a relationship with a prostitute or former prostitute. They are ‘untouchables’ to them; forever judged as fallen women, damaged and ‘dirty’. Don’t act so fkg naïve.
Also; I was referring to a much wider demographic – not just you & some other men .. you seem to have trouble grasping that. In my experience we are nowhere near a stage where someone can openly discuss either being or using a sex worker without it negatively affecting others’ opinion of them.
Yes; you are 100% right – the only reason I’d have any judgement whatsoever of someone in a monogamous relationship having sex with prostitutes behind their partner’s back .. is JEALOUSY.
You’re remind me of type of guy who genuinely believes that the only reason women are uncomfortable with men having sex with teenagers when they’re in their 30’s and beyond; is because they’re jealous. Refer to my post above about sociopaths.
c/here you are proving lack of understanding of the rules of free market economy. There have always been and will always be prostitutes (What was is that needed explained about that?) but the more there are at any given time the more affordable their services become. In countries with strict laws against prostitution there are less prostitutes and they charge more so it takes resourcefulness, and deep pockets for men to use them. You are delusional, ignorant & illogical not to understand that a normal married guy is more likely to use prostitutes if seeing them is legal, socially acceptable and affordable than if it is not.”
At no point have I shown any failure to understand the rules of the free market economy – but thanks for the mini lecture, Keynes. To the contrary I mentioned poverty in my points about a significant portion of sex workers in the UK being foreign.
Prostitution is not (fully) legal, is not socially acceptable (though I understand as a prostitute user why you want to believe it is) … but whatever the case people in monogamous relationships who CHOOSE to have sex with other people behind their (not) loved one’s back are responsible for that decision, I don’t care how affordable or anything etc. it might be. It is beyond the pale, if a married/attached person does not see that and have some boundaries and integrity, they are not fit to be in an exclusive relationship.
Oh and btw – as a prostitute user, you are an example of a man whom I would never ever knowingly enter a relationship with, and never knowingly associate with. Your behaviour also fits with your opinions as expressed above. Your single redeeming feature seems to be that you’re not the 24-carat hypocrite that many prostitute using men are and will actually enter a relationship with a former prostitute.
I have more time ‘discussing’ this with you than I ever should have, good luck.